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Gab123
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God made human beings to have a share in His eternal life; sin sepates a soul from God, thus sin offends Him.
Go to Hell - Stay there forever
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ProdglArchitect
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Why though?oliver109:
This seems like a horrible way to have to live.
Seriously, why is that horrible?
Is it horrible for a person with a genetic predisposition towards alcoholism to abstain from drink?
Is it horrible for a person with a light complexion to apply sunscreen before going outdoors?
Is it horrible for someone with a nut allergy to abstain from anything that has nuts in it?
Living in awareness of a given danger isn’t horrible, it’s the only rational way to live.
We may be damned, every last one of us may be lost to the eternal fire. That is reality, and pretending otherwise to sooth the burden of having to live a certain way isn’t going to do anything but make that thing you’re trying to avoid thinking about happen.
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laylow
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The way God is described in the OT and the apparent lack of mercy he shows according to the above posts, it seems maybe this separation would be deemed a good thing?
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laylow
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As I just stated, per the definition of God (via religious dogma) it would be philosophically impossible for him to be “offended.”
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oliver109
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It would be nice to have a bit more reassurance from God with regards to our lives. I like that scene from the film Babe where the farmer pats Babe on the head and says “that ll do pig that ill do” we don’t hear what God thinks of our lives at this moment, it would be nice if we did.
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Gab123
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God is merciful in the Old Testament, and Jesus is just as harsh in the New Testament. The problem is that you are not reading your Bible.
As for separation from God, many choose this. Thus the place without a God is called hell.
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laylow
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I was for 38 years.
I am certainly not ignorant, I simply think they are untrue. Psychology has very good explanations for these types of claims, I find it much for convincing.
It’s a horrible motivator, and it simply won’t work. If my dad tried to scare me into loving him, guess what, I wouldn’t.
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laylow
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Actually that was the “problem.” As the say, the easiest path to atheism is reading the bible!
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Gab123
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The problem is that you are not thinking very deep. God hates sin, because sin is the misuse of the intellect and the will. Your mind is made for truth, and your will is made for goodness and love; thus sin offends God the same way that a lie offends the truth.
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laylow
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No, I didn’t create the definition of God, so the problem does not lie with me.
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Gab123
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Atheism is not a rational conclusion, but rather, a psychological and emotional condition. There’s nothing bright about thinking that the cosmos bubbled up accidentally out of nothing, and that you have no more worth than a cockroach.
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laylow
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It would be miles better than eternal torment.
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Gab123
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God is the Source of Truth, Goodness and Beauty, because He is Truth, Goodness and Beauty itself.This is a biblical and theological truth.
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laylow
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And perfect, correct?
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ProdglArchitect
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God loves you, unconditionally and individually. It doesn’t matter how egregious a sinner you are, or how awful those sins are, God loves you with a deeper, more self-giving love than everyone in your life combined.
If you need to know what He thinks of you at any given moment, look at a crucifix. He did that for you. Not for nebulous humanity, but for you, specifically you.
Never doubt that. Never doubt that He will always welcome you back with open arms if you repent.
Remember what Jesus says, "I say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance. " (Luke 15:7)
However, paired with this knowledge, we must also recognize that we are capable of cutting ourselves off form God by our actions. No matter how much God may love us, He will not force his mercy on us.
(I can’t find a clapping icon.)
Well stated.
This is my last post for the day, I need to focus on my work.
If you need to know what He thinks of you at any given moment, look at a crucifix. He did that for you. Not for nebulous humanity, but for you, specifically you.
Never doubt that. Never doubt that He will always welcome you back with open arms if you repent.
Remember what Jesus says, "I say to you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance. " (Luke 15:7)
However, paired with this knowledge, we must also recognize that we are capable of cutting ourselves off form God by our actions. No matter how much God may love us, He will not force his mercy on us.
(I can’t find a clapping icon.)
Well stated.
Psychology has no explanation for these claims, especially not those which are attested to by large groups of people. Seriously, pick up the book and read it. It’ll take an average speed reader three or four hours to get through if you really dig into it.
That’s funny, because it worked for me, and it’s worked for countless people throughout history. Fear isn’t where you want to stay, I agree, but it can be the catalyst for change, and in fact has been the catalyst for pretty much every positive change in human history…
This is my last post for the day, I need to focus on my work.
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Gab123
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Not when there is a choice for eternal life and happiness. If you choose to drink poison and drill a hole in your head when everyone is telling you, begging you, warning you not to do it, then the sole person responsible for having a hole in your head is you. eternal torment is fitting for those who choose it after they were warned against it.
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laylow
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Well, of course I disagree, but I’ll play along. By this logic, the visions of every other religion throughout history must be “true” as well, would they not?
Change should be based on experience, trial and error. People individually and collectively learn from their experiences and change based on them.
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laylow
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If you can resolve it logically that you and any other human deserves eternal punishment for small mistakes, then the Kool-aid of fear has certainly transformed your brain in a way that would make Jim Jones blush!
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Gab123
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Again, the problem is that you are not very well educated on the matter. Learn the difference between venial and mortal sins. Damned souls are not guilty of small mistakes.
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ProdglArchitect
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That is not the assertion that I am making. I am not claiming that all visions are of equal merit, or even that all of them are true.
You are attempting to equivocate a wide range of different experience, which is, frankly, silly for someone who seems to pride themselves on being a rational thinker.
Even if you don’t accept private, individual revelations, there are multiple accounts of apparitions appearing to multiple people, attesting to the reality of Hell.
You also have to look at the nature of such experiences. Frequently, eastern religions employ psychotropic drugs in their religious ceremonies, as did many pagan religions. In those cases, I think we can clearly conclude that their visions were hallucinations brought about by the drugs. With these Christian mystics, there is no drug use so that explanation is out.
Now, there’s no way to exclude all potential mental issues which could result in visions, but the existence of a potential explanation is not sufficient reason to exclude the possibility of a vision being true.
Again, I encourage you to read the book. There are multiple accounts which cannot be explained away as psychological malady. Some of them occurred to multiple people, others left physical evidence after the event.
Alright, last post this time. I really have to get back to work.
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