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Go to Hell - Stay there forever
- Thread starter NoelFitz
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Elf01
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Jesus said that the gate is narrow.
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ProdglArchitect
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I can hope that’s true while still making the intelligent decision to act like it’s not.
I’d much rather be hyper-vigilant for the short duration of my life, and attain Heaven, than be laxed and wind up in Hell.
Many saints have painted a pretty bleak view of the number of the saved. I see no reason to doubt them, as they’ve been pretty unanimous in their declarations, especially those who were given visions of Hell.
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YourNameHere
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Psalm 51 is one of my favorites.
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Gab123
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God’s laws are written on everyone’s heart. In a promiscuous culture, where people are killing babies, living and celebrating immorality, pursuing hedonistic lifestyles, hatred and unforgiveness, it would be hard to believe that all those who do these things are all in the state of grace. There is such thing as conscience which usually gives us full knowledge of when something is good or evil; then there’s the reality of having a dead conscience which is the result of obstinacy in mortal sin.
So don’t be fooled and heed God’s warnings.
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. Matt. 5:22
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Gab123
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Most who believe and strive to love and serve God probably make it to Purgatory; very very few make it directly to heaven.
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Gab123
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Unfortunately this is simply not the case, as not everyone is saved, according to the Bible. Thus the advice is to be careful with modern theologians. And one need not be a cruel drug cartel hit man, who tortures and dismembers his victims alive with a demonic laughter, to be condemned. Mortal sins can be committed under one of the categories of the 7 Capital Sins. Jesus describes the damned here:
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ Then they also will answer, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?’ Then he will answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
I will continue to hope .Rob2:
Unfortunately this is simply not the case
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Gab123
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The thing to do is to pray for the conversion of sinners. When the children of Fatima were given the vision of hell of the demons and damned souls, Our Lady called for prayer and sacrific for the conversion of sinners. And again, beware of modern theologians. Instead trust in the teachings of Jesus Christ.
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Gab123
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The idea that there is no hell for human beings is a lie from the devil. Why do people so easily dismiss the words of Jesus Chris? As Paul wrote:
“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse. As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
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Gab123
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If there is evil, hatred and misery in this world, what makes you think evil, hatred and misery doesn’t exist in the spiritual world?
Hope for salvation for yourself; and pray and offer sacrifices for the salvation of others.
The Church teaches that hell exists and that mortal sin will get you there. It doesn’t do anyone any good spreading false ideas.
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ineedofmercy
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I’ve never really had a counter argument to the “the only day that matters is the day you die”
Because the whole
Good holy life but die a week after 1 mortal sin
Sinful life but die after confession
It can seem unfair
The way I stop my mind from protesting to God about this is
-Not really knowing when we will die weakens this argument
But if you regret it and die atleast planning to confess it
Maybe God will look on your life and give you forgiveness as you die or even after (endless power)
You could very likely end up in purgatory
Hope the weak argument of some 18 year old helps with this
Feel free to point out where I’m wrong because I very well can be
I just think a lot
Because the whole
Good holy life but die a week after 1 mortal sin
Sinful life but die after confession
It can seem unfair
The way I stop my mind from protesting to God about this is
-Not really knowing when we will die weakens this argument
- and I believe God has some way we can’t perceive that makes this fair
But if you regret it and die atleast planning to confess it
Maybe God will look on your life and give you forgiveness as you die or even after (endless power)
You could very likely end up in purgatory
Hope the weak argument of some 18 year old helps with this
Feel free to point out where I’m wrong because I very well can be
I just think a lot
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Magnanimity
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I’m with you @Rob2 and @NoelFitz! In fact, I just reread that Von Balthasar book. It is so very good. He glosses over nothing–deals with the “hard” texts (e.g., Matt 25) and juxtaposes them with texts such as St Paul saying “I could wish myself accursed for the sake of my brethren,” which is a current that runs through the thought of many of the saints over the ages who themselves could not stand the thought of anyone tormented and suffering everlastingly…honestly, who could stand that thought?
I’m tempted to go a little beyond Von Balthasar in one respect. Being personally OK with the knowledge of “the other” (it’s always the other and not ourselves who are possibly in Hell…) persisting in an unending state of torment and suffering is, almost, a morbid pathology.
I think we tell ourselves that it’s decided church-teaching, on the level of infallible dogma, that Hell is real, will exist forever and will be loaded with human souls. I also think we simply don’t personalize our beliefs on Hell. That is, we don’t imagine our children, our dearest lifelong friends, or our parents/siblings enduring in a never-ending state of suffering and torment… If we did image this, if we truly did (and we didn’t suffer from some morbid pathology ourselves), we would never be OK with it. Never. We, like St Paul, like many of the saints, would wish ourselves accursed for the sake of our brethren. That’s what love is. Love is absolutely not, “well, I got into the good place, you didn’t. Sucks to be you…”
It’s high time that the Catholic Church in the west seriously reexamines its unquestioned allegiance to the Augustinian massa-damnata/Hell-is-full teaching. As I said, it borderlines on being a morbid pathology to claim that you’re OK with humans enduring forever in a state of ongoing torment/suffering as a result of the ‘justice’ of God.
I’m tempted to go a little beyond Von Balthasar in one respect. Being personally OK with the knowledge of “the other” (it’s always the other and not ourselves who are possibly in Hell…) persisting in an unending state of torment and suffering is, almost, a morbid pathology.
I think we tell ourselves that it’s decided church-teaching, on the level of infallible dogma, that Hell is real, will exist forever and will be loaded with human souls. I also think we simply don’t personalize our beliefs on Hell. That is, we don’t imagine our children, our dearest lifelong friends, or our parents/siblings enduring in a never-ending state of suffering and torment… If we did image this, if we truly did (and we didn’t suffer from some morbid pathology ourselves), we would never be OK with it. Never. We, like St Paul, like many of the saints, would wish ourselves accursed for the sake of our brethren. That’s what love is. Love is absolutely not, “well, I got into the good place, you didn’t. Sucks to be you…”
It’s high time that the Catholic Church in the west seriously reexamines its unquestioned allegiance to the Augustinian massa-damnata/Hell-is-full teaching. As I said, it borderlines on being a morbid pathology to claim that you’re OK with humans enduring forever in a state of ongoing torment/suffering as a result of the ‘justice’ of God.
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ChuckB
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Well, I’m a bit over 14 and I can actually picture such a scenario.
True, but for the sake of my example, just suppose that there is someone who truly is leading a good and moral life…for all the right reasons. Then, he wakes up on a beautiful Sunday morning and decides to play golf with his best friend rather than go to Mass. While at the golf course they meet a long-lost, mutual friend and after a round of golf, spend the rest of the day hanging out in the club house. By the time they realize what time it is, it’s too late to catch the evening Mass at the cathedral. Oops…Mortal Sin. Gotta get to Confession on the way to work Monday morning. Next morning he parks his car in the lot across from the church, but while crossing the street gets mowed down by a runaway bus and instantly dies.
Is he going to Hell for missing the Sunday Mass? Did he “choose” to separate himself from God for eternity? I bet there are some, maybe even many, on here who will answer in the affirmative.
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Gab123
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It is a very fancy way of saying that hell doesn’t exist. The next stage of the lie is to usher you into denying the existence of the devil. Don’t be fooled. The consequence of plucking your own eyes out is blindness. Hell is the built-in consequence of the soul that rejects God.
Eternity means there is no time, thus the eternal punishment of hell is an eternal unchageable state that is not measured by a clock on the wall in hell. It is an eternal state of being. At the general judgment all will know why people are condemned to hell and will understand that it is just. On earth we have mothers and fathers and brothers and sisters and blood relatives. In heaven your relationship will be different. There all will be children of a God; in hell those souls who were loft will be the children of the devil, that is, human beings that demonized themselves, much like the angels became demonized when they fell.
Are you saying that Satan and the wicked angels will some day be reconciled and go to heaven too?
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oliver109
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Many on here would say that such a persons will is too strong to possibly miss Mass on Sunday. I would give this scenario, imagine a priest has just finished saying Mass and is meeting the parishioners after the service, a very attractive woman is talking to him and mentions having a meal as she does not want to buy food that night. The priest agrees as he lives by himself and would not mind company, he is also attracted to her and after the meal and a few drinks they end up having sex, later that night an armed robber breaks in and shoots the priest dead instantly, while the priest was disgracing his office we ought to have mercy I feel as it is a situation that is very tempting and one so many of us and indeed so many clergy have committed.
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oliver109
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I would argue that we do not demonize ourselves completely in the vast majority of cases, the average sinner wants forgiveness after they sin, we are not comparable to the devil who lived in very different circumstances to us. Imagine living a supreme existence where our knowledge is unparalleled and our boredom is just non-existent, we would be really foolish if we were asked if we would prefer another life where we could be God rather than a servant of God, that is what the devil chose and he was foolish.
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ChuckB
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I suspect that the golfer in my hypothetical is much more common than the wayward priest in yours. Although I will admit that your story is much more interesting than mine.
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Fauken
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That doesn’t make it right or lessen the severity of what they both did. We are to watch for the coming of the Lord like watchmen for the daybreak, as He could come at any moment. That includes our deaths. In Jesus’ parable with the wise and foolish virgins, it didn’t matter that both stood there all night. The foolish ones didn’t bring enough oil, left to get some more, and were barred from the feast. That wasn’t a coincidence or an accident. They were willfully ill-prepared.
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