God according to catholics

[ahmadhassan]

i just wondering do catholics believe that God is one in 3 persons or 3 in one person

 

[zemi]

i just wondering do catholics believe that God is one in 3 persons or 3 in one person

Hi, ahmadhassan

CCC 253:

*The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”. The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: “The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.” In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), “Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.”
*

 

[Subrosa]

i just wondering do catholics believe that God is one in 3 persons or 3 in one person

Hi Ahmad Hassan, Peace be upon you -

This is something that is unexplainable. All we know is that it is how God chooses to expose Himself to us.

Have you ever read the Jewish/Christian holy books? It is very evident in the books that God interacts with humanity in this way. It as also been written about and discussed throughout Christian history.

We Catholics have a tenets of faith that are called “mysteries”. The One God in three Persons is one of the most predominant. The mysteries are aspect of God that are not explainable.

For instance, we believe that Jesus presents Himself to us by a miraculous conversion of bread and wine into His Body and Blood. This presentation occurs at every Catholic prayer gathering, or Mass. We believe it to be true even though the converted substances remain in the appearance of bread and wine.

Even though we understand God to be thre Persons, we hold that God is ONE.

Think of a fountain with a tall spring and two offshoot springs. In this analogy God the Father is the origin of the other Two, the Son and Spirit, yet the three remain one fountain.

I hope this helps. It is confusing, I know.

Subrosa

 

[ahmadhassan]

Hi, ahmadhassan

CCC 253:

The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”. The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: “The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.” In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), “Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.”

thats mean you worship 3 gods
father a god
son a god
holyspirit a god
but father isnt the son neither the holyspirit
thats mean 3 different persons with different abilities thats lead to 3 gods=polytheism

 

[ahmadhassan]

Hi Ahmad Hassan, Peace be upon you -

This is something that is unexplainable. All we know is that it is how God chooses to expose Himself to us.

Have you ever read the Jewish/Christian holy books? It is very evident in the books that God interacts with humanity in this way. It as also been written about and discussed throughout Christian history.

We Catholics have a tenets of faith that are called “mysteries”. The One God in three Persons is one of the most predominant. The mysteries are aspect of God that are not explainable.

For instance, we believe that Jesus presents Himself to us by a miraculous conversion of bread and wine into His Body and Blood. This presentation occurs at every Catholic prayer gathering, or Mass. We believe it to be true even though the converted substances remain in the appearance of bread and wine.

Even though we understand God to be thre Persons, we hold that God is ONE.

Think of a fountain with a tall spring and two offshoot springs. In this analogy God the Father is the origin of the other Two, the Son and Spirit, yet the three remain one fountain.

I hope this helps. It is confusing, I know.

Subrosa

i believe that we have to know who do we worship so that we can do worship ,if you asked a muslim he will say he worship one person that is God and he can explain if you asked a hindu he will say that he worship 200 persons but i wanna know how many persons do you worship and what if you worshipped father alone ?

 

[zemi]

thats mean you worship 3 gods
father a god
son a god
holyspirit a god
but father isnt the son neither the holyspirit
thats mean 3 different persons with different abilities thats lead to 3 gods=polytheism

If you think you’ve come up with something new…

That argument is non sequitur. If there is only one God (as CC teaches) then it follows it is impossible to worship three Gods. We worship one God in three persons.

look at this article for starters:

catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0501coff.asp

God bless

 

[Subrosa]

thats mean you worship 3 gods
father a god
son a god
holyspirit a god
but father isnt the son neither the holyspirit
thats mean 3 different persons with different abilities thats lead to 3 gods=polytheism

You are falling into a trap. The Christian faith has never understood God in the terms you describe. It is your interpretation only.

The Three are not seperate Gods, but One God in Three Persons.

Do you think that it is beyond God’s ability to present Himself in such a way? If so, you are mistaken.

Again, there is only ONE God and you will never get any true christian to tell you differently.

Change your wording into this - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit - One God, three Persons.

I know it is difficult to understand.

Sub

PS - Sorry, by I must leave. I will be back.

 

[ahmadhassan]

Hi, ahmadhassan

CCC 253:

The Trinity is One. We do not confess three Gods, but one God in three persons, the “consubstantial Trinity”. The divine persons do not share the one divinity among themselves but each of them is God whole and entire: “The Father is that which the Son is, the Son that which the Father is, the Father and the Son that which the Holy Spirit is, i.e. by nature one God.” In the words of the Fourth Lateran Council (1215), “Each of the persons is that supreme reality, viz., the divine substance, essence or nature.”

subrosa see zemi he is a christian and compare what he wrote and what i wrote to see if its my interpretition
do you mean that God is present in those 3 persons if so then father is god or not?

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi
The trinity could be well understood if the attributes of the three persons of the trinity are compared.
I once compared from the Luther’ Catechism and found:
There is not a single attribute in Spirit which is not shared by Father or Son Jesus.
There are many attributes which exist in Father and Son Jesus but do not exist in Spirit.
In my opinion if all the attributes of the three persons are common, then it would be wrong to say that they are three persons.
In my opinion if all the attributes of the three persons are different, then it would be wrong to say that they are not different persons.
To me Trinity is no mystery, however I respect your religion.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

 

[Subrosa]

subrosa see zemi he is a christian and compare what he wrote and what i wrote to see if its my interpretition
do you mean that God is present in those 3 persons if so then father is god or not?

PBUY Ahmad -

How do you not see exactly what I said?

one God in three persons

It is impossible to undersatnd completely, I admit.

Zemi took a quote from the Catholic Church Catechism which is an official document of Catholic teachings. Lets have a look at an Orthodox Christian Catechism - orthodoxeurope.org/page/10/1.aspx#11

Please notice that it states that the concept of God is 3=1 & 1=3 is not rational. It also says that it is not an invention, but divinely revealed by Gid Himself.

THE MYSTERY OF THE TRINITY

Christians believe in God the Trinity — Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The Trinity is not three gods, but one God in three Hypostases, in three personal beings. What mathematics and logic consider an absurdity constitutes the cornerstone of our faith, namely that 1=3 and 3=1. Christians participate in the trinitarian Godhead not through logic but through repentance, that is, through a complete change and renewal of the mind, heart and feelings (the Greek word for ‘repentance’ — metanoia — literally means ‘change of mind’). To touch upon the mystery of the Holy Trinity is impossible unless the mind changes from a rational way of thinking and becomes illumined by divine grace.

The doctrine of the Trinity is not an invention of theologians, not a teaching which gradually developed within the Church, but divinely revealed truth. At the Baptism of Jesus Christ, God reveals Himself in all clarity to the world as Unity in three Persons: ‘Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form, as a dove, and a voice came from heaven: Thou art my beloved Son; with thee I am well pleased’ (Luke 3:21-22). The voice of the Father is heard from the heavens, the Son stands in the waters of the Jordan, and the Spirit descends upon Him.

Jesus Christ repeatedly speaks of His unity with the Father, and of His being sent into the world by the Father. He also promises to send His disciples the Spirit, the Comforter, Who proceeds from the Father (John 14:16-17; 15:26). Sending His disciples out into the world to preach, He says to them: ‘Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit’ (Matt.28:19), which becomes the baptismal formula of the early Christian Church. The apostles themselves refer to the three Persons: ‘There are three witnesses in the heavens; Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and these three agree’ (1 John 5:7).

At the Incarnation of the Word God revealed Himself to the world as One in three Persons. The Jews, who had preserved their sacred faith in the one God, would have been unable to grasp the idea of a Divine Trinity as this would unmistakably have been taken to mean polytheism. At a time when polytheistic religion ruled the world, the mystery of the Trinity was hidden from human gaze. It was hidden as if it were in the very depths, in the very heart of the dogma of the divine unity.

continued…

 

[Subrosa]

HOW TO EXPLAIN THE MYSTERY OF THE HOLY TRINITY?
One of the simplest ways of explaining the mystery of the Trinity is that reportedly given by St Spyridon of Trimithund at the Council of Nicaea (AD 325). According to tradition, when asked how it is that Three can simultaneously be One, St Spyridon responded by taking up a brick and squeezing it. From the soft clay in his hands a flame showed up while simultaneously water flowed downwards. ‘As there is fire and water in this brick’, said St Spyridon, ‘in the same way there are three Persons in the one Godhead’.

Another version of the same story (or it may be a different story) is found in the Acts of the Council of Nicaea. One philosopher argued long and hard with the Fathers of the Council, trying to prove logically that the Son cannot be consubstantial with the Father. Exhausted by long debates and eager to leave, the Fathers were suddenly confronted by a simple elderly shepherd (identified as St Spyridon), who announced that he was prepared to argue with the philosopher and disprove his arguments. Turning to the philosopher, the shepherd looked at him severely, and said: ‘Listen, O philosopher, God is one, the Creator of heaven and earth, Who has created all things through the power of the Son and the operation of the Holy Spirit. This Son of God became incarnate, lived among people, died for us and rose again. Do not labour in vain to seek evidence for that which is comprehended by faith alone, but answer me: do you believe in the Son of God?’ Struck by these words, the philosopher could only say, ‘I do’. The shepherd said: ‘If you believe, then let us go to the church and there I will bring you into communion with this true faith’. The philosopher immediately stood up and went with the shepherd. On his way out, he said to those present: ‘When people tried to convince me with words, I countered words with words; but when a divine power came forth from the mouth of this old man, then words were no match for this power, as man cannot contend against God’.

We have already faced a very similar dilemma when discussing the doctrine of God: human words cannot convey the divine reality. God’s enlightenment and His grace are needed, for us to comprehend trinitarian theology. No terminology or formulation is adequate to communicate the mystery of the Trinity. Yet the Christian faith is above all trinitarian, and it is crucially important for every Christian to partake fully in this mystery. For an Orthodox Christian, the Trinity is not an abstract theological concept: it is a reality which is to be lived through. The Trinity is Someone to Whom we pray, but it is also Community, the Communion of three in one, the Family in Whose image we build up our own human community

Sub

 

[ahmadhassan]

its still the same problem “mystery” you dont know who do you worship ,what if i told you that i worship God whom abraham was worshipping ,do abraham ever said in OT that he worship christ?
what if i told you that i worship God of christ ,that God that christ was calling and asking him why did you forsaken me

 

[Subrosa]

its still the same problem “mystery” you dont know who do you worship

From the Christian point of view God is unknowable in His entirety. Here is something from a Jewish prophet, Isaiah. This is a part of the Christian doctrine, also.

Isaiah 55:8 *For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the LORD. *

This is a prophet of God telling us that God thinks and acts in different ways than we.

what if i told you that i worship God whom abraham was worshipping ,do abraham ever said in OT that he worship christ?

Abraham knew nothing of Christ and therefore could not
refer to Christ. Christ was revealed to the Jews nearly 1500 years after Abraham (PBUH) Many Jews rejected Christ, many Jews accepted Christ. This is true even today.

what if i told you that i worship God of christ ,that God that christ was calling and asking him why did you forsaken me

Christ asked this question Himself when He died on the cross.

I would say that you are following Christ.

Subrosa

 

[Booklover]

PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TROLL!

IMHO it’s a complete waste of time trying to explain the Trinity to Muslims. The minute I saw another thread started about it by a Muslim, I knew what the outcome would be: We are once again accused of being polytheists!

Muslims are not going to listen to anything we say. They’ve made up their minds about it, and they bviously get a real kick, and feel so superior every time they claim we’re polytheists!

Muslims will not accept the Trinity because to do so, would (gasp) mean that their prophet was a fraud. They’re not interested in the truth, just in what makes them feel that they’re better than everyone else. They’ve staked their immortal souls on one man’s testimony without any corroborating evidence. May God have mercy on them!

Vickie

 

[Subrosa]

PLEASE DON’T FEED THE TROLL!

IMHO it’s a complete waste of time trying to explain the Trinity to Muslims. The minute I saw another thread started about it by a Muslim, I knew what the outcome would be: We are once again accused of being polytheists!

Muslims are not going to listen to anything we say. They’ve made up their minds about it, and they bviously get a real kick, and feel so superior every time they claim we’re polytheists!

Muslims will not accept the Trinity because to do so, would (gasp) mean that their prophet was a fraud. They’re not interested in the truth, just in what makes them feel that they’re better than everyone else. They’ve staked their immortal souls on one man’s testimony without any corroborating evidence. May God have mercy on them!

Vickie

Please give it chance, Vicki. Let’s not judge. It may end up as you say but trying doesn’t hurt.

Sub

 

[paarsurrey]

IMHO it’s a complete waste of time trying to explain the Trinity to Muslims. The minute I saw another thread started about it by a Muslim, I knew what the outcome would be: We are once again accused of being polytheists!
Muslims will not accept the Trinity

Hi
The Christians say Trinity is a mystery, it cannot be explained, it is sentimental with them, yet on the other hand there are certain Christian friends who are eager to explain it. They are welcome, but first they should admit that Trinity is no loger a mystery, then arguments should be given.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

 

[Booklover]

Hi
The Christians say Trinity is a mystery, it cannot be explained, it is sentimental with them, yet on the other hand there are certain Christian friends who are eager to explain it. They are welcome, but first they should admit that Trinity is no loger a mystery, then arguments should be given.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.
GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth.

Your post makes no sense! We cannot understand God! If we could, God would not be God!

If God is omnipotent, nothing is impossible to him! The teaching of the Trinity is in the Bible even if it’s not identified as such. Just before Jesus ascended to heaven after his death and resurrection, he told his apostles to make disciples of all the nations and to baptize them in the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit! As you can see, he said NAME NOT NAMES! By that we can conclude that God is only ONE, not THREE even though there are 3 divine persons in that one God.

 

[Brendan]

thats mean you worship 3 gods
father a god
son a god
holyspirit a god
but father isnt the son neither the holyspirit
thats mean 3 different persons with different abilities thats lead to 3 gods=polytheism

No, You are confusing “personhood” with “separation”. It is not a logical requirement that a person be seperate.

There is no separation in God, God is ONE. But God has distinction, in that there are three DISTINCTIONS in God. Those distinctions are the 3 Persons of the Godhead.

 

[Brendan]

its still the same problem “mystery” you dont know who do you worship ,what if i told you that i worship God whom abraham was worshipping ,do abraham ever said in OT that he worship christ?
what if i told you that i worship God of christ ,that God that christ was calling and asking him why did you forsaken me

Do you claim to know the fullness of God? We don’t and we cannot.

That is what is meant by “Mystery”. That there are certain truths about God which we may know, but due to the Nature of God and humans limitied knowledge, we may not fully comprehend.

If the Muslims hold that God is All Knowing, they they too must agree that God is a Mystery.

Because if we have fully Knowledge of that which is All Knowlege, then, by definition, we too would be All Knowing.

( If you Know All about that which Knows All…)

 

[christcnection1]

its still the same problem “mystery” you dont know who do you worship ,what if i told you that i worship God whom abraham was worshipping ,do abraham ever said in OT that he worship christ?
what if i told you that i worship God of christ ,that God that christ was calling and asking him why did you forsaken me

This may answer a few of your questions, but I encourage you to continue researching this topic. Theologians and scholars much more intelligent and educated than the individuals we have on this “thread” have dealt with this question. I suspect you’ll find a much deeper understanding of the issue if you continue to investigate.

May the One God bless you!

catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101sbs.asp