God alone provides Salvation - Ezekiel 36

[Pat_De]

But what do you call “the church”? If by “church” you mean an organisation which teaches what you are teaching here, then such a church did not exist until the reformation, at the earliest; perhaps not until later. For your church to be teaching the fullness of truth, then one would have to accept that the true teachings of Christ were lost, until they were restored by Luther and Calvin - to whom you would have to accord the status of prophet, so significantly did they differ from what had come before. As Catholics, we believe that all new revelation ended with the death of the last apostle.

The orthodox do have a claim to be the true Church, and their teachings are very similar to Catholic teaching. They would certainly have short shrift with the ideas you are promoting here. If you wish to discuss whether the Catholic Church or Orthodox Churches have the better claim to being the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church, established by Christ, then we can have that discussion. However, the fact that this debate exists between Catholic and Orthodox Christians does nothing to strengthen the claims of your church to be the true and authoritative Church; established as it was at least 1500 years after Christ, or 450 after the Orthodox schism.

“To be deep in history is to cease to be protestant.” (John Henry Newman)

The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you!

There is only one church that Jesus is building; there is no other true church. His bride is not a building with people in it as some like to fit God into a box. The church was predetermined before the foundation of the world, which is much longer than 1500 or 2000 years ago. Your problem is that you do not understand the Biblical teaching of the church. Why do people go out into mission fields? To find those elect and proclaim the gospel to them; it is the way god chose to bring in the elect of God, the true church.

I go to a church and I’m quite sure than there are tares among the wheat.

 

[Pat_De]

It’s a Man Made Teaching?

Matthew 28:19 - “Go therefore … baptizing them in the name of the Father …”
Mark 16:16 - “Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved”
John 3:5 -"Truly, Truly, I say to you, unless you are born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God.

And that’s just Jesus alone, lets see what the Apostles did.

Acts 2:38
Acts 2:41
Acts 8:12
Acts 8:38
Acts 10:48
Acts 22:16
Colossians 2:11-12
Acts 16:30, 33
1 Peter 3:21

Sorry, but you are mistaken in your own, false interpretation of God based on failed teaching and unrighteous leadership. We are to be baptized, born anew. It is not only biblical, but Christlike. It has everything to do with Christianity. Furthermore, the Scriptures you hold dear are a product of Sacred Tradition instituted by the Catholic Church. Please reconsider changing your false interpretation, which turns our Holy, Just God into a Sick, Perverted Tyrant, and see the true God which is the unbridled source of Love that came and died for us on a Cross.

Nice try to isolate water baptism as part of salvation and departing from the core issue, which is no one is going to chose God left to themselves because it is all of god and nothing of man for the glory of God; but that is the works mentality that is man-centered and not Christ centered. No one would chose to be water baptized, a command and act of love out of obedience to the Lord unless they were first awakened from the deadness of thier souls by the grace of God, but in no way saves a soul. The Church of Christ teaches the same thing.

 

[fhansen]

Nice try to isolate water baptism as part of salvation and departing from the core issue, which is no one is going to chose God left to themselves because it is all of god and nothing of man for the glory of God; but that is the works mentality that is man-centered and not Christ centered. No one would chose to be water baptized, a command and act of love out of obedience to the Lord unless they were first awakened from the deadness of thier souls by the grace of God, but in no way saves a soul. The Church of Christ teaches the same thing.

The Church of Christ teaches that God alone saves but not without justifying man-IOW God doesn’t just arbitrarily decide to save man after years of keeping him in exile-He desires a change in man. So God has provided a means for man to become justified so that man can become the beings He’s always had in mind to spend eternity with Him.

 

[NotWorthy]

Nice try to isolate water baptism as part of salvation and departing from the core issue, which is no one is going to chose God left to themselves because it is all of god and nothing of man for the glory of God; but that is the works mentality that is man-centered and not Christ centered.

Ah, but it is Christ Centered. You are so close, Pat, and yet you don’t know it.

No one would chose to be water baptized, a command and act of love out of obedience to the Lord unless they were first awakened from the deadness of thier souls by the grace of God,

You are right. This is called Actual Graces, which flow from God. The Christian receives and accepts these graces which draws them towards the living waters that come in Baptism.

… but in no way saves a soul. The Church of Christ teaches the same thing.

The Church teaches, as instructed by Christ that it is through the obedience of Baptism that we are saved. We received Sacramental Graces in Baptism (as opposed to Actual Graces that I described above) which is the very life of Christ within us.

It, in no way, limits Christ, for He can work any way He wants to work. But it is the normative means of first receiving Him into our souls.

 

[Crown_of_Thorns]

There is only one church that Jesus is building; there is no other true church. His bride is not a building with people in it as some like to fit God into a box. The church was predetermined before the foundation of the world, which is much longer than 1500 or 2000 years ago. Your problem is that you do not understand the Biblical teaching of the church. Why do people go out into mission fields? To find those elect and proclaim the gospel to them; it is the way god chose to bring in the elect of God, the true church.

I go to a church and I’m quite sure than there are tares among the wheat.

But how does one know what the “gospel teaching” is? According to your thesis, one simply has to read the bible and understand. But millions of Christians have read the bible, and come to conclusions different your conclusion. How do you know that your interpretation is the correct one.

What is the authority behind the theological statements you are making here? For every protestant like yourself, who claims that the Holy Spirit has led him/her to believe what s/he does, there is another protestant who claims that the same Holy Spirit has lead him/her to believe something to the contrary.

May God bless you and keep you in is ways and may his face shine upon you!

 

[Crown_of_Thorns]

A.M.D.G.e.H.M

There is only one church that Jesus is building; there is no other true church. His bride is not a building with people in it as some like to fit God into a box.

Scripture does speak about a visible Church, not as a building, but as a visible public structure.

“…you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”(1 Tim 3.15)

If the Church is the “pillar and bulwark of the truth” then it must be visible to me - even were I a non - believer, so that I might know where to go to find the one truth.

Similarly, in Matt 18 Jesus teaches that;

“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.” (Matt 18.15-17) (Emphasis added).

Well if I am a Christian who has an issue with my brother, which could not be resolved with the help of 2 or 3 witnesses, what I am to do? Your description of the Church is a something invisible and amorphous. How could I take a cause to an invisible Church? And who would respect the authority of any decision made by a self-appointed member of an invisible Church?

I tell you the truth, Jesus did not leave the us a conundrum by which we were to work out the truth, he established one, visible Church, to proclaim the truth in His name.

*“He who hears you, hears me” *(Luke 10.16)

It is legitimate therefore, when someone, such as yourself, comes along with a teaching that departs from the consistent and unchanging teaching of that Church, to subject this new teaching to the approval or disapproval of the authoritative Church - and that is what I would have to counsel you to do.

 

[pcusack1]

I was converted at a Wesslyian Chruch on the verse Ez 36:26 Change my heart form a heart of stone to a heart of flesh.It happened to be the thrid time that week I eard the that secripture verse. Is there any cxonnection between the House of Israel and Ez 36:26?

 

[Pat_De]

Nice try to isolate water baptism as part of salvation and departing from the core issue, which is no one is going to chose God left to themselves because it is all of god and nothing of man for the glory of God; but that is the works mentality that is man-centered and not Christ centered. No one would chose to be water baptized, a command and act of love out of obedience to the Lord unless they were first awakened from the deadness of thier souls by the grace of God, but in no way saves a soul. The Church of Christ teaches the same thing.

I need to add some clarification to this; many unregenerate people playing church or meeting their parents expectations or someone eles’s expectations do get water baptized, but there is no “new life” in them as seen by how they live and act like the world, which is the real proof that water baptism does not save nor impart saving grace because He who began a good work will finish it as well as the Bible teaches. So it is He who starts it and He who finishes it; the elect children of God.

 

[Pat_De]

The Church of Christ teaches that God alone saves but not without justifying man-IOW God doesn’t just arbitrarily decide to save man after years of keeping him in exile-He desires a change in man. So God has provided a means for man to become justified so that man can become the beings He’s always had in mind to spend eternity with Him.

That’s a man-centered by works theology and not Christ centered; to, by and for His glory. You are not going to be justified at the end; you are justified at the beginning “Come as you are”. He will effect the regeneration, which then He will effect the sanctification, then He will effect the glorification all for His own glory not for the man’s glory. Never met a man who said “thank you God for giving me the intelligence to chose you and to walk with you so you can then justify me”.

This is no less the Arminianism error that there is some good in man that would allow a man to chose God on His own or have God, then reject Him. Calvin had it wright concerning the total depravity of man and I’m sure He based primarily from Romans 3, but there are other Scriptures that show we are by nature against God at all points. Jeremiah, Isaiah and David all said in sin did my mother conceive me and Job and Jeremiah cursed the day they were born in self pity, but the point is that you can only do what your nature dictates and for man that is sin. Sin is what? Rebellion against God. A person who looks like a Christian, may even talk and walk like one, but in the end the fruit will be exposed and as John put it: "They went out from us, but they were not {really} of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but {they went out,} so that it would be shown that they all are not of us." This is the apostate tare who was never regenerated and was never awakeened from spiritual death by the grace of God.

If people do not get a grasp and how wretched and defiled and sinful they are before God and plead for mercy, then they will perish just as the entire human race except for eight did when God saw the wickedness of man. The only reason Noah, his wife, son’s and daughter-in-laws found favor was an act of God’s mercy and it wasn’t their doing. They were sinners just like all that perished the only difference is that God moved into their hearts and removed the stones out and put one of flesh in it.

 

[fhansen]

That’s a man-centered by works theology and not Christ centered; to, by and for His glory. You are not going to be justified at the end; you are justified at the beginning “Come as you are”. He will effect the regeneration, which then He will effect the sanctification, then He will effect the glorification all for His own glory not for the man’s glory. Never met a man who said “thank you God for giving me the intelligence to chose you and to walk with you so you can then justify me”.

This is no less the Arminianism error that there is some good in man that would allow a man to chose God on His own or have God, then reject Him. Calvin had it wright concerning the total depravity of man and I’m sure He based primarily from Romans 3, but there are other Scriptures that show we are by nature against God at all points. Jeremiah, Isaiah and David all said in sin did my mother conceive me and Job and Jeremiah cursed the day they were born in self pity, but the point is that you can only do what your nature dictates and for man that is sin. Sin is what? Rebellion against God. A person who looks like a Christian, may even talk and walk like one, but in the end the fruit will be exposed and as John put it: "They went out from us, but they were not {really} of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but {they went out,} so that it would be shown that they all are not of us." This is the apostate tare who was never regenerated and was never awakeened from spiritual death by the grace of God.

If people do not get a grasp and how wretched and defiled and sinful they are before God and plead for mercy, then they will perish just as the entire human race except for eight did when God saw the wickedness of man. The only reason Noah, his wife, son’s and daughter-in-laws found favor was an act of God’s mercy and it wasn’t their doing. They were sinners just like all that perished the only difference is that God moved into their hearts and removed the stones out and put one of flesh in it.

We know mans righteousness is not the righteousness God desires. True righteousness comes from God alone. But in order to be made righteous man must still *choose *God’s righteousness over his own, just as Adam & Eve chose to reject it. This is what makes man just. The fact that he absolutely needs God’s help in order to do so means what the Church has taught all along and what man must come to learn, simply that, quoting Spe Salvi, “…man needs God, otherwise he remains without hope”.

And if you’re right you might as well quit preaching; Gods going to save us -without us- anyway. In your scenario God created man, gave him laws He knew man couldn’t obey, blamed him for disobedience anyway, then arbitrarily decided to save him in spite of his wretchedness. No rhyme or reason behind it all, no purpose for the fall, just a game.

You’re in error because you think mans salvation is an all-at-once event. Our sanctification* is* our justification, otherwise unjust people would enter heaven, a notion opposed to scripture.

 

[Pat_De]

A.M.D.G.e.H.M

Scripture does speak about a visible Church, not as a building, but as a visible public structure.

“…you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”(1 Tim 3.15)

If the Church is the “pillar and bulwark of the truth” then it must be visible to me - even were I a non - believer, so that I might know where to go to find the one truth.

Similarly, in Matt 18 Jesus teaches that;

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector." (Matt 18.15-17) (Emphasis added).

Well if I am a Christian who has an issue with my brother, which could not be resolved with the help of 2 or 3 witnesses, what I am to do? Your description of the Church is a something invisible and amorphous. How could I take a cause to an invisible Church? And who would respect the authority of any decision made by a self-appointed member of an invisible Church?

I tell you the truth, Jesus did not leave the us a conundrum by which we were to work out the truth, he established one, visible Church, to proclaim the truth in His name.

*“He who hears you, hears me” *(Luke 10.16)

It is legitimate therefore, when someone, such as yourself, comes along with a teaching that departs from the consistent and unchanging teaching of that Church, to subject this new teaching to the approval or disapproval of the authoritative Church - and that is what I would have to counsel you to do.

Are you suggesting the church is not the elect of God according to Scripture. Who is the “church building and gathering together” designed for? Christians or non-Christians? What is one of the biggest problems with the “visible church” throughout all the ages until today? Lack of church discipline to weed out as many tares as possible because as we all know Satan is disguised and an angel of light and his favorite playground is the “visible church”; so the true church is the church that Christ continues to build until it is revealed in the future.

Romans 8:19 “For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.”

Too many people claim the church has many problems; but the real problem is with what man calls the church. For Christs church are His sheep that hear His voice and follow Him and they stand firm on Him; are nourished by Him and for His glory.

If everyone were to meditate on Romans 3 for the next 30 days everyday and keep in mind total depravity of man in view of God and Justification by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone for His glory alone. Then to reinforce it; read Romans 8 everyday for 10 days in a row, then some may awaken from the dead if God should chose to awaken some dead souls.

 

[Pat_De]

I was converted at a Wesslyian Chruch on the verse Ez 36:26 Change my heart form a heart of stone to a heart of flesh.It happened to be the thrid time that week I eard the that secripture verse. Is there any cxonnection between the House of Israel and Ez 36:26?

Converted from a Weslyian church to a Catholic church? What kind of conversion was this? I’m confused.

Israel will have it’s day again once the fullness of the gentiles have come in. The passage refers to how God does the work of Salvation without partiality to Greek or Jew. Remember it is only a few, a remnant, as Jesus was asked and answered in Luke 13 and Matthew 7. Them the OT always had a remnant as well.

 

[Pat_De]

We know mans righteousness is not the righteousness God desires. True righteousness comes from God alone. But in order to be made righteous man must still *choose *God’s righteousness over his own, just as Adam & Eve chose to reject it. This is what makes man just. The fact that he absolutely needs God’s help in order to do so means what the Church has taught all along and what man must come to learn, simply that, quoting Spe Salvi, “…man needs God, otherwise he remains without hope”.

And if you’re right you might as well quit preaching; Gods going to save us -without us- anyway. In your scenario God created man, gave him laws He knew man couldn’t obey, blamed him for disobedience anyway, then arbitrarily decided to save him in spite of his wretchedness. No rhyme or reason behind it all, no purpose for the fall, just a game.

You’re in error because you think mans salvation is an all-at-once event. Our sanctification* is* our justification, otherwise unjust people would enter heaven, a notion opposed to scripture.

That is another Gospel that is man-centered and completely misses what God so clearly states about man’s spiritual condition in Romans 3. The nature of man and man’s view toward God is so bad he would never chose God, which is why God said that even faith is granted to a man by God.

See you don’t understand the nature of God or the nature of man; you want him to overlook sin like a judge who gives a serial rapist 5 days of civil service because he seemed like a nice guy. Man is so deprived He would never chose God according to Scripture. So yeah man has a choice and that choice would be and is to run away from God 100% of the time, so if not for the election, there would not be one in heaven. But God’s grace and mercy is magnificent; especially to those who realize it is 100% all of Him because Christ removed the veil of blindness.

But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because it is removed in Christ. True is Israel and true of gentiles.

***Ac 5:31
"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

2Ti 2:25
with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth, ***

What applies to the Jew also to the Greek when it comes to the issue of faith and salvation.

Salvation was determined before the foundation of the world before time existed and in the “time box”, the elect are saved, being saved and will be saved, but time is more relevant to man than it is to God. Just as God created man He also created time and He did it because He wanted to do it that way.

 

[pcusack1]

Converted from a Weslyian church to a Catholic church? What kind of conversion was this? I’m confused.

Israel will have it’s day again once the fullness of the gentiles have come in. The passage refers to how God does the work of Salvation without partiality to Greek or Jew. Remember it is only a few, a remnant, as Jesus was asked and answered in Luke 13 and Matthew 7. Them the OT always had a remnant as well.

Thank you for your interest. It was actually a reversion from tAthesisim to Christianity -Wesslyian Style. But I made it somehow back to the Church of my youth -the Catholic Church. I beleive in god, and the Hebrew Scriptures, but not in Jesus. But I agree 100 with you that only a very small remanent is saved. When i jugded the dead, only 3 people were save. The rest were goats on the left. All of Hindu, buddist, Confusions, and muslims and Protestants have been judged. Only the living Catholics and Jews reamin to be Judged. If you want to stan a chance at Salvation, become a Catholic or Jew. It s the only way to pass into Heaven. People don’t tak ethe words of Jesus seriously. He speaks only Truth. Reread the Gosepls and ask your self how many follow every teaching of Christ. POeople are fool if they think they can slip into Heaven. Evey vese Jesus spoke will be used to judge Catholics. All of Israel will be saved according to St. paul (Romans)

 

[fhansen]

See you don’t understand the nature of God or the nature of man; you want him to overlook sin like a judge who gives a serial rapist 5 days of civil service because he seemed like a nice guy. .

Nah, it’s just the opposite. Catholics believe we must become “perfect as the Father is perfect”, “holy because He is holy”-we don’t get off scott-free at all like many “reformed” souls who believe in a righteousness merely imputed to them.

 

[Crown_of_Thorns]

A.M.D.G.e.i. H.M

Are you suggesting the church is not the elect of God according to Scripture. Who is the “church building and gathering together” designed for? Christians or non-Christians? What is one of the biggest problems with the “visible church” throughout all the ages until today? Lack of church discipline to weed out as many tares as possible because as we all know Satan is disguised and an angel of light and his favorite playground is the “visible church”; so the true church is the church that Christ continues to build until it is revealed in the future.

Romans 8:19 “For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.”

Too many people claim the church has many problems; but the real problem is with what man calls the church. For Christs church are His sheep that hear His voice and follow Him and they stand firm on Him; are nourished by Him and for His glory.

1. Pat, you have completely ignored the Scripture I showed you referring to a visible Church - a Church to whom one might appeal for a decision, when one has an issue with his brother that cannot otherwise be settled (Matt. 18). How can this Scripture make any sense at all if there is no visible Church?
2. The presence of sinners in the Church doesn’t nullify the existence of the Church. Chrisy built his Church out of sinners.

*Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared. *

*"The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’

" ‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
"The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’

" ‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’ " Matthew 13.24-30 (Emphasis added)
*

Christ foresaw that among the good fruit in the Church, there would be those who did not bear good fruit. But he also prophesied that that would be the case until the harvest - it isn’t going to change.

1. Notwithstanding what I have just said in point 2, the Catholic Church would agree with you that in a sense, the Church consists only of the elect (ie. those going to heaven)

“A person foreknown to damnation is never part of the holy church, even if he is in a state of grace according to present justice; a person predestined to salvation always remains a member of the church, even though he may fall away for a time from adventitious grace, for he keeps the grace of predestination.” (Council of Constance 1414-15, Sentence of degradation against J. Hus, nr. 5)

1. Only the Catholic Church has a mechanism for casting out someone who refuses to listen to the sound teaching. You are complaining about the absence of a way to remove “tares” - well the “invisible” Church has no way of doing this, but the visible Catholic Church does - excommunication.

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.(Matt 18.17)

1. I would ask you not to say that I am making the Church building an essential part of what the Church is. I have explicitly rejected that in my previous posts, yet you still purport that belief to me, and I think it is adding to the confusion here.

---

Once again it seems that you are absolutising certain tracts of Scripture. There are parts of Scripture which talk of an invisible/mystical Church and there are also parts that speak unmistakably of a visible, authoritative Church. Only the Catholic Church synthesises these scriptures.

May God Bless you!

 

[pcusack1]

Thank you for your interest. It was actually a reversion from tAthesisim to Christianity -Wesslyian Style. But I made it somehow back to the Church of my youth -the Catholic Church. I beleive in god, and the Hebrew Scriptures, but not in Jesus. But I agree 100 with you that only a very small remanent is saved. When i jugded the dead, only 3 people were save. The rest were goats on the left. All of Hindu, buddist, Confusions, and muslims and Protestants have been judged. Only the living Catholics and Jews reamin to be Judged. If you want to stan a chance at Salvation, become a Catholic or Jew. It s the only way to pass into Heaven. People don’t tak ethe words of Jesus seriously. He speaks only Truth. Reread the Gosepls and ask your self how many follow every teaching of Christ. POeople are fool if they think they can slip into Heaven. Evey vese Jesus spoke will be used to judge Catholics. All of Israel will be saved according to St. paul (Romans)

Apparently, god has decided that there are so few truely good people on Earth, that he has decided to destroy most of humanity in Hell. Beleive me htey deserve it! This is foreshowed in th destruction of sodom and Germoah, when Abraham pleads with God to save the cityies. No, there are not even 10 good people in these towns. It’s also foreshawed in noah, when only 8 people were saved of all the world, becuase there were no good people on earth. Yes, indeed, perhaps as few as 8 wil l be saved. This Divine Mercy is nonsense. That was just an illusion created by the Devil to deceive poeple into thingink that th eWorld would be saved. The painting has resulted in the Idol of the oppressor being in stalled in the Cathedral. The Gates of Hell have prevailed agianst the Church. If you are concerned about where you will spend your eternity, are you good enough to be one of the eight? Be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect. God doesn’t even tolerate faults let alone sin. As for me, I’m the Judge. The Judge can’t be judged. He’s abouve the Law. In all the thousands of people i kew, I cna’t think of even 8 people that I think should be saved. Every person has a mjor flaw that laves them imperfect. Mother Terese perhaps. i did not meet her.

 

[NotWorthy]

Apparently, god has decided that there are so few truely good people on Earth, that he has decided to destroy most of humanity in Hell. Beleive me htey deserve it! This is foreshowed in th destruction of sodom and Germoah, when Abraham pleads with God to save the cityies. No, there are not even 10 good people in these towns. It’s also foreshawed in noah, when only 8 people were saved of all the world, becuase there were no good people on earth. Yes, indeed, perhaps as few as 8 wil l be saved. This Divine Mercy is nonsense. That was just an illusion created by the Devil to deceive poeple into thingink that th eWorld would be saved. The painting has resulted in the Idol of the oppressor being in stalled in the Cathedral. The Gates of Hell have prevailed agianst the Church. If you are concerned about where you will spend your eternity, are you good enough to be one of the eight? Be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect. God doesn’t even tolerate faults let alone sin. As for me, I’m the Judge. The Judge can’t be judged. He’s abouve the Law. In all the thousands of people i kew, I cna’t think of even 8 people that I think should be saved. Every person has a mjor flaw that laves them imperfect. Mother Terese perhaps. i did not meet her.

Wow, THAT sure clears up things a bit for me.

Thanks for sharing that with us!

 

[pcusack1]

Wow, THAT sure clears up things a bit for me.

Thanks for sharing that with us!

Don’t be surprized if you find yourself on the left with he Goats after God has Judged the World. I’ve seen how few are on the Right. The Second Judgement takes place over the course of a couple of minutes -just long enough to repeat Matthew 25. On the first day, the goats are condemned. Ontthe sdecond day, the sheep are rewarded. It’s just as the Scriptures (OT and NT) tell us that it’ll be. Are you in the remenant?

 

[JohnCS]

Don’t be surprized if you find yourself on the left with he Goats after God has Judged the World. I’ve seen how few are on the Right. The Second Judgement takes place over the course of a couple of minutes -just long enough to repeat Matthew 25. On the first day, the goats are condemned. Ontthe sdecond day, the sheep are rewarded. It’s just as the Scriptures (OT and NT) tell us that it’ll be. Are you in the remenant?

Did Hollywood release a new end of the world movie that I didn’t hear about yet?
Or are you referring to a vision of a saint from the past? Or a vision you have had? In a dream? Trance? Visitation?

Thanks

John