God created evil

[Bahman]

1. God has omniscience
2. God is cognitively open to free will (since otherwise couldn’t create a being with free will)
3. God knows the decision we perform in a situation as a result being cognitively open to free will and situation, in another word God is cognitively open to creation
4. Creation was performed by first cause and God was cognitively open to first cause
5. Evil exist and God was aware the source of evil in first cause since it was cognitively open to it
6. God created evil

 

[Paddy_Walker]

Evil is just sin; and sin is just “missing the mark”; and the mark is the proper purpose for things.
He created the things; the proper purpose for those things; and the freedom to search for him.

 

[fhansen]

1. God has omniscience
2. God is cognitively open to free will (since otherwise couldn’t create a being with free will)
3. God knows the decision we perform in a situation as a result being cognitively open to free will and situation, in another word God is cognitively open to creation
4. Creation was performed by first cause and God was cognitively open to first cause
5. Evil exist and God was aware the source of evil in first cause since it was cognitively open to it
6. God created evil

No, but God allowed evil. If God created evil then He didn’t “create a being with free will”. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[tonyrey]

Evil cannot be created because it doesn’t exist! The term is a human description of what happens when things go wrong.

 

[tonyrey]

Evil is just sin; and sin is just “missing the mark”; and the mark is the proper purpose for things.
He created the things; the proper purpose for those things; and the freedom to search for him.

Moral evil is sin. Natural evil has, not surprisingly, natural causes!

 

[oldcelt]

1. God has omniscience
2. God is cognitively open to free will (since otherwise couldn’t create a being with free will)
3. God knows the decision we perform in a situation as a result being cognitively open to free will and situation, in another word God is cognitively open to creation
4. Creation was performed by first cause and God was cognitively open to first cause
5. Evil exist and God was aware the source of evil in first cause since it was cognitively open to it
6. God created evil

Evil manifest, according to Catholicism/Christianity is Satan, a fallen angel. I was taught that angels are created beings…therefore…

 

[josh987654321]

1. God has omniscience
2. God is cognitively open to free will (since otherwise couldn’t create a being with free will)
3. God knows the decision we perform in a situation as a result being cognitively open to free will and situation, in another word God is cognitively open to creation
4. Creation was performed by first cause and God was cognitively open to first cause
5. Evil exist and God was aware the source of evil in first cause since it was cognitively open to it
6. God created evil

The professor of a university challenged his students with this question. “Did God create everything that exists?” A student answered bravely, “Yes, he did”.

The professor then asked, "If God created everything, then he created evil. Since evil exists (as noticed by our own actions), so God is evil. The student couldn’t respond to that statement causing the professor to conclude that he had “proved” that “belief in God” was a fairy tale, and therefore worthless.

Another student raised his hand and asked the professor, "May I pose a question? " “Of course” answered the professor.

The young student stood up and asked : “Professor does Cold exists?”

The professor answered, “What kind of question is that? …Of course the cold exists… haven’t you ever been cold?”

The young student answered, “In fact sir, Cold does not exist. According to the laws of Physics, what we consider cold, in fact is the absence of heat. Anything is able to be studied as long as it transmits energy (heat). Absolute Zero is the total absence of heat, but cold does not exist. What we have done is create a term to describe how we feel if we don’t have body heat or we are not hot.”

“And, does Dark exist?”, he continued. The professor answered “Of course”. This time the student responded, “Again you’re wrong, Sir. Darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in fact simply the absence of light. Light can be studied, darkness can not. Darkness cannot be broken down. A simple ray of light tears the darkness and illuminates the surface where the light beam finishes. Dark is a term that we humans have created to describe what happens when there’s lack of light.”

Finally, the student asked the professor, “Sir, does evil exist?” The professor replied, “Of course it exists, as I mentioned at the beginning, we see violations, crimes and violence anywhere in the world, and those things are evil.”

The student responded, “Sir, Evil does not exist. Just as in the previous cases, Evil is a term which man has created to describe the result of the absence of God’s presence in the hearts of man.”

After this, the professor bowed down his head, and didn’t answer back.

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[ServantPD]

1. God has omniscience
2. God is cognitively open to free will (since otherwise couldn’t create a being with free will)
3. God knows the decision we perform in a situation as a result being cognitively open to free will and situation, in another word God is cognitively open to creation
4. Creation was performed by first cause and God was cognitively open to first cause
5. Evil exist and God was aware the source of evil in first cause since it was cognitively open to it
6. God created evil

That’s a consequentialist point of view. If we want to necessarily obey it, Hitler’s mother is responsible for the 100 million deaths that followed for creating Adolf. Do you reaaaaally want to go to that road?

And Gos was indeed aware of the possibility of creating evil, but when you do your creation out of love and want them to embrace free will, you can expect the best possible scenario, as well as the worst, and it would hold little sway to you. God knew that men could do this, and He did and still does allow it, for now. You can make God responsible, in an indirect manner, for creating evil, but with that logic everyone would be indirectly guilty of something they might not even know. And since it is senseless to do so, that type of argument is pretty much rejected.

And the worst part, is that this argument has a non sequitur. You don’t follow necessarily from the premises that God created evil; on the best shot, He was indirectly responsible for it, due to His allowance of free will in His creation. But then again, that’s nothing new for us…

 

[grannymh]

1. God has omniscience
2. God is cognitively open to free will (since otherwise couldn’t create a being with free will)
3. God knows the decision we perform in a situation as a result being cognitively open to free will and situation, in another word God is cognitively open to creation
4. Creation was performed by first cause and God was cognitively open to first cause
5. Evil exist and God was aware the source of evil in first cause since it was cognitively open to it
6. God created evil

 

[Bahman]

Evil is just sin; and sin is just “missing the mark”; and the mark is the proper purpose for things.
He created the things; the proper purpose for those things; and the freedom to search for him.

It is different. You didn’t get what cognitively means. Let me give you an example. You are cognitively open to a program when you know what program supposed to do, not could or would do. This means that program should do what is required. That is the meaning of being cognitively open. If God is cognitively open to creation and it is responsible for first cause then it means we should do sins and not could do sin. It is the way implemented in first cause that we cannot comprehend, but God can.

 

[Bahman]

No, but God allowed evil. If God created evil then He didn’t “create a being with free will”. You can’t have it both ways.

That is the problem I exactly have. We have to say good bye to free will once we accept that God is cognitively open to creation/first cause.

 

[Bahman]

Thank you for reading
Josh

Thanks for the post. First, our actions are either good or evil, you can call them good or no good which is just playing with word. Second, one can argue that good is absence of evil if we accept your analogy. Third, you apparently didn’t understand what cognitively open means: it means that system/creation should function based on what was implemented in first cause hence there is no degree of freedom left for agents from God point of view.

 

[Paddy_Walker]

It is different. You didn’t get what cognitively means. Let me give you an example. You are cognitively open to a program when you know what program supposed to do, not could or would do. This means that program should do what is required. That is the meaning of being cognitively open. If God is cognitively open to creation and it is responsible for first cause then it means we should do sins and not could do sin. It is the way implemented in first cause that we cannot comprehend, but God can.

But if you do sins you’ll go to hell, Bahman. And I think He said He does not wish that.

 

[Brendan_64]

Evil manifest, according to Catholicism/Christianity is Satan, a fallen angel. I was taught that angels are created beings…therefore…

Lucifer was not created evil, he chose that path through sin and was punished accordingly.

 

[Bahman]

That’s a consequentialist point of view. If we want to necessarily obey it, Hitler’s mother is responsible for the 100 million deaths that followed for creating Adolf.

She was not responsible for that as she was neither cognitively open to her action nor Hitler.

Do you reaaaaally want to go to that road?

That is consequence of the fact that God is cognitively open to creation. Please show me another road which means you have to close God cognition to creation which again cause another problem, meaning how God could create something which is cognitively closed to it.

And God was indeed aware of the possibility of creating evil, but when you do your creation out of love and want them to embrace free will, you can expect the best possible scenario, as well as the worst, and it would hold little sway to you. God knew that men could do this, and He did and still does allow it, for now. You can make God responsible, in an indirect manner, for creating evil, but with that logic everyone would be indirectly guilty of something they might not even know. And since it is senseless to do so, that type of argument is pretty much rejected.

Free will is an illusion if God is cognitively open to first cause. Please help to resolve this problem.

And the worst part, is that this argument has a non sequitur. You don’t follow necessarily from the premises that God created evil; on the best shot, He was indirectly responsible for it, due to His allowance of free will in His creation. But then again, that’s nothing new for us…

What do you mean with indirectly? Can you write a program which you are aware that it is bug free and program does otherwise? That is the meaning of being cognitively open to a subject.

 

[Bahman]

That was a nice answer to an argument.

 

[Bahman]

But if you do sins you’ll go to hell, Bahman. And I think He said He does not wish that.

What does “do” mean? I just function as I should do, as I am supposed to do. God cannot be cognitively open to us, at the same time grant us free will.

 

[Paddy_Walker]

What does “do” mean? I just function as I should do, as I am supposed to do. God cannot be cognitively open to us, at the same time grant us free will.

You might have to explain cognitively open to me again. By the power of the interweb I could find no mention of it except in the title of a paper written by a muslim. Are you muslim? What is cognitively open?

 

[fhansen]

That is the problem I exactly have. We have to say good bye to free will once we accept that God is cognitively open to creation/first cause.

I’m not sure what you mean. If you’re saying that God was always aware that evil would occur by the abuse of the gift of free will that is certainly true. This makes Him the indirect cause of evil, but not its creator. His foreknowledge simply does not preclude the possibility of free will in His creatures.

 

[Bahman]

You might have to explain cognitively open to me again. By the power of the interweb I could find no mention of it except in the title of a paper written by a muslim. Are you muslim? What is cognitively open?

An agent is cognitively open to a system when it knows how the system functions under every circumstances.

Let me give you a couple of examples:

1. You are cognitively open to a program language since you know how it functions
2. We are cognitively open to God since God knows how we perform our decision in every given situations
3. We are not cognitively open to each other (third person view) since we don’t know how other people perform their decision in every given situations