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oldcelt
Guest
To what purpose…?
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grannymh
Guest
Whose omniscience are you talking about?
Depending on whom you choose as being omniscient, there may be an opportunity to use a philosophical approach.
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Eagle1937
Guest
God created evil? No. From what I understand, there was only God and only goodness. But Lucifer - originally a good being or Angel - rebelled and was cast out. A battle. A battle between Lucifer along with his other fallen angels and God. It is at this point evil was created. Not by God. But by Lucifer or Satan. I will need to review the Book of Revelation.
The same evil and god of Hell - Satan - that tempted Adam and Eve. And hence, our Fall from grace.
But, Jesus Christ corrected this Fall thru his Blood, Resurrection, and Ascension…
(Actually, we are still Fallen. But, thru Jesus Christ, our entrance to Heaven is assured - if we change or repent and believe)
The same evil and god of Hell - Satan - that tempted Adam and Eve. And hence, our Fall from grace.
But, Jesus Christ corrected this Fall thru his Blood, Resurrection, and Ascension…
(Actually, we are still Fallen. But, thru Jesus Christ, our entrance to Heaven is assured - if we change or repent and believe)
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Aloysium
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davidv
Guest
For our eternal happiness.
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oldcelt
Guest
So, we might get eternal happiness if we happen to negotiate the world he created with complete and absolute foreknowledge of who would make it, we get eternal happiness. Calvin doesn’t sound nearly so crazy to me for some reason…no, actually he does.
The God I was taught simply didn’t match up with the world I saw. This was nor a snap decision. I spent more than a decade weighing the obvious against the bible books and early church writings along with history. Out of honesty to myself I was forced to leave the church I was born into. It was painful.
I have now relieved god of the responsibilities that a logical look at my old faith assigned. My life is my own, the after-life is very iffy, and I am no longer angry.
I don’t suggest this for everyone…I could be wrong…we could all be wrong.
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Catolico65
Guest
The problem my friend is vanity I expect. You have a perception of God and His plan that doesn’t meet yours. Since you see innocent people suffer, including children, you automatically assume that God has no interest in this matter, which couldn’t be further from the case. Furthermore, God has stated many times He hides His plan from the proud so you will have to change your skeptical and arrogant attitude to one of seeking with earnest to learn as a humble servant. Then you will start to see the beauty of His plan and understand He does care about all people and overwhelmingly compensates people for their suffering, especially the innocent.
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oldcelt
Guest
Tried that approach for many years…as have millions of others and it has not changed a single disaster for the better…and just how does anyone know his total plan? That, to me, is the height of vanity…“I understand the mind of an omnipotent being.” It is laid out in only the broadest terms and offers no explanation for the slaughter of the innocents over and over and over. The plan seems to be Oops, I messed up in creation, so now if you jump through these hoops you can have eternal life with me, or you can burn in hell, which I already knew so…never mind.
I truly find it difficult to fathom that anyone finds any comfort in the God I was taught by the nuns. My dear mother, a faithful believer for over 70 years told me near the end of her life that she just didn’t believe anymore. That what she had seen did not make sense with a loving God…although she continued to attend Mass out of habit she said. By the teachings I learned, she is burning in hell…after devoting her entire being to her husband, children and community.
Somethin’ ain’t right here, and I have the respect for a potential God to say so.
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inocente
Guest
Hi granny, long time no see. Goodness knows, dogs drinking coffee, whatever next, in my young day dogs drank beer or red Rioja and they were grateful for what they got, these young dogs today gallivanting all over town, gallivanting I tells you, no good will come of it mark my words … [exits stage left]Good to see you.
I was just about to send out the St. Bernard dog looking for you …with some brandy tied to his furry neck. Drank the brandy instead and then couldn’t remember what I was looking for. When in doubt, I used the dictionary and found out what “cognitively open” means. It means the opposite of brandy in the morning.
FYI
swissinfo.ch/eng/archive/Black_drink_saves_from_white_death.html?cid=7309338
Have a very merry Christmas. :irish3: :snowing: :tiphat:
PS: I think the OP argument is plain wrong but if evil exists then God must have made it: “I am the Lord, the Maker of all things” (Isaiah 44:24) + “For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him” (Colossians 1:16).
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tonyrey
Guest
Why not simply state “omniscient”?
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grannymh
Guest
And a happy New Year to you.:extrahappy:
My question is – Is evil really a thing?
What is evil’s height, depth, and width? Does evil have velocity? Is it hot? Can we kill evil? Does evil celebrate birthdays? What is the real cause of evil? Too much brandy? Where is evil on the food chain? Why is it important to save a human life? Why is it important to separate violent murderers from the rest of the population?
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tonyrey
Guest
The issue is whether it “exists” - and what “exists” means in this context.
Can we say a defect like ignorance or lack of love “exists”?
So did God create “nothing”?
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Catolico65
Guest
Pure conjecture on your part.
Ironically it’s the people like yourself who don’t accept the existence of a creator or think he has no interest in this world that are responsible for more killings of innocent people than anyone else. Before we had the pagans and now we have the socialist atheists who are directly responsible for the deaths of almost 1 billion people in the last 100 years and 26 million child sacrifices annually.
There you go again, pure conjecture.
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oldcelt
Guest
- Of course it’s conjecture… so is every other view of “God.” But I’m the one giving god the benefit of the doubt. I’m saying that if he does exist in some form, he has no control over day to day activities and is every bit as surprised as you and me at the evil of some
- Guess if you can’t win with logic attack the person or the philosophy. Well, I’m responsible for no deaths, ever…not one. I don’t think I’m a socialist atheist, whatever that is, but I do have some pagan leanings. I like their holidays and mysticism, but don’t believe any of it.
- My mother’s story is anything but conjecture, It is a regrettable fact that she was indoctrinated from day one in a society where rebellion or questioning brought a beating. She wisely played the game and may have even believed fr a long time, But, in the end, they couldn’t control her mind, her conscience, her inner, personal thoughts, no matter how they tried.
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Paddy_Walker
Guest
if I hear ‘cognitively open’ again I’ll scream.
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oldcelt
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I agree…how about he can mentally accept?
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Paddy_Walker
Guest
not so bad… how’bout… he knows?
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Catolico65
Guest
There you go again with conjecture.
According to your logic there can’t be a god because of the amount of innocent blood shed and I merely pointed out the fact that it is individuals with beliefs like yourself justify the killings of innocents more than any other ideological system, in fact they are worse than Muslims. Jews and Christians in comparison aren’t even on the same chart.
My point is that it is more than ironic that you have an inherent and good dislike of the shedding of innocent blood and yet would associate ideologically with others who are the cause of more violence against innocents the world has ever known. It would only be logical to assume that this type of ideology is at odds with peace and therefore one should stay far away from it.
Pure conjecture, you don’t know what your mothers thoughts were the moment before she passed away (God bless her soul).
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inocente
Guest
I think evil only exists in the same sense as cuddliness or a smirk or giving someone the cold shoulder - it’s a word which means something to people who know what it’s supposed to mean.The issue is whether it “exists” - and what “exists” means in this context.
Can we say a defect like ignorance or lack of love “exists”?
So did God create “nothing”?
We could, but probably shouldn’t, describe these people as being adjectivally open.
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inocente
Guest
Please see post to granny above.The issue is whether it “exists” - and what “exists” means in this context.
Can we say a defect like ignorance or lack of love “exists”?
So did God create “nothing”?
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