God doesn't speak Latin

[RPConover]

But He’s God… that makes him omniscient. Therefore, he spoke absolutely everything. He spoke languages that haven’t even been invented yet!

Imagine God speaking in ebonics

 

[Isa_Almisry]

This is a very relevant point. And at one time, ordinary people were discouraged form owning a Bible and reading it.

I’m not sure that would be relevent for most, because they couldn’t afford one nor read it.

 

[RPConover]

I think if we use a bit of common sense, we can understand why language is different from nails.

So is Latin only sacred when used in the liturgy? Is Latin spoken in a normal conversation still sacred?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

If they’re not fully literate, this would seem to be a reasonable and prudent recommendation.

Better some alternative found, like, say, hymns of the Church.

Of course, they would have to UNDERSTAND them.

 

[the_phoenix]

And here are the “Our Father” and the “Hail Mary” in Quenya Elvish, as translated by Professor J.R.R. Tolkien, author of Lord of the Rings:

Átaremma i ëa han ëa · na aire esselya · aranielya na tuluva · na care indómelya cemende tambe Erumande : ámen anta síra ilaurëa massamma · ar ámen apsene úcaremmar sív’ emme apsenet tien i úcarer emmen. Álame tulya úsahtienna mal áme etelehta ulcullo : násie : "

"Aia María quanta Eruanno i Héru as elye · aistana elye imíca nísi · ar aistana i yáve mónalyo Yésus : Aire María Eruo ontaril á hyame rámen úcarindor sí ar lúmesse ya firuvamme : násie "

quenta-narwen.blogspot.com/2003/07/cool-earlier-i-posted-our-father-and.html

Here’s hoping God understands …

~~ the phoenix

 

[Isa_Almisry]

So it isn’t fine for me to attend a Traditional Latin Mass? That seems to be what you’re saying. You’re telling me that the Mass has no value for me. That’s incredibly arrogant.

Latin is the official ecclesial language and has been ordained by the Holy Spirit as such. Its value has already been discussed at length in this thread. Read over the previous posts.

Really? The HS said that?

Then why didn’t He just speak it alone on Pentacost?

And why did He wait centuries to speak it at Rome?

What’s the value? It might have some for you. Nice that the Church accomdates Herself to you. What about those poor unfortunates in RICA (I’m assuming that’s catechesis of some sort).

If it’s nothing more than nostalgia, well…

 

[Walking_Home]

Yes it is my only language. In fact, in the UK, many people only speak one language. Our European counterparts put us to shame as they can nearly all speak English. Our schools are only now realising that to teach other languages effectively, they need to start at a young age when children are still actively learning about syntax and phonology naturally./QUOTE]​

Seems that is true. My younger child was able to pick up Spanish a lot easier (well enough to communicate that is) vs. the older ones. Now the older ones are making the effort to learn. In Texas --Spanish comes in handy.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

No. They’ll teach you to respect it.

Respect without understanding.

Now THAT’s catechesis.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Can we please pull ourselves away from that old cliche that says you can’t understand the Mass when you are unable to completely understand the language it is spoken in? I’m willing to bet that more people understood the Latin Mass when they hardly spoke a word of Latin then understand the Novus Ordo in their own language. Recall Bishop Trautman’s desire for a more simplistic english translation of the Novus Ordo on the basis that Catholics today are too dumb to understand the forthcoming translations?

The issue of understanding goes far beyond language. You can have all the vernacular Masses you want, but they mean nothing without proper doctrinal and liturgical formation. Furthermore, language has no bearing on the spirituality of the Mass.

I think Taft wrote an expose on your last point. The laity, cut off from what was going on, thought up things to preoccupy time while they heard (but didn’t understand) mass. Multiplication of private masses into an industry, etc.

I agree on the formation point. Why wasn’t this done in the vernacular?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Let’s remember, too, that nobody’s forcing you to attend the Extraordinary Form. You, and any potential converts, are perfectly entitled to attend the Ordinary Form if you are so averse to the Church’s most ancient traditions.

I other words, if you can’t hack it, we’ll let you have crumbs at the kiddie table. So much for that much vaunted unity that we Orthodox keep on being told we lack.

 

[the_phoenix]

What about when the Roman Centurion asked Jesus to heal his servant? It might well be that this gentile spoke with Jesus in Latin …

See Matthew 8:5-13

~~ the phoenix

 

[Walking_Home]

Really? The HS said that?

Then why didn’t He just speak it alone on Pentacost?

And why did He wait centuries to speak it at Rome?

What’s the value? It might have some for you. Nice that the Church accomdates Herself to you. What about those poor unfortunates in RICA (I’m assuming that’s catechesis of some sort).

If it’s nothing more than nostalgia, well…

Quote=Isa Almisry
First, I don’t have anything against the Tridentine mass. Our Western Rite Orthodox use the Divine Liturgy of St. Gregory, which is basically the same, and I am fine with that (though I’m Arab and Eastern Rite).

I don’t have anything against Latin, or any liturgical language, per se, except when its appeal is smells and bells. It has to go farther.​

Come a long way from the original post. Started off having nothing against Latin—to now – where apparently we are indulging in nostalgia.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

---

I don’t know whether it is true that ordinary people were discouraged from owning and reading the bible—but going with that thought—and LilyM’s statement----What were they to do with a bible----Have a protestant interpret it for them.

So no one interpreted the Bible for you until the Protestants came along. Please, you do your T/tradition no credit.

Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea.

Where did your mass get that. Look through it. It got a lot from the same source.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

That’s fine but some people would like all Masses to be in Latin. I am not really averse to Latin - just being awkward but I do think that some people forget that many people are not conversant in Latin meaning that they are unlikely to have any understanding of it. But then again, the Holy Spirit might descend upon them and give them the gift of interpretting tongues. Doctors and botanists should be OK since Latin should be familiar due to all the plant names and ilness names.

Didn’t someone say Latin was sanctified because it is used only in church?

Oops.

 

[Linnyo]

Didn’t someone say Latin was sanctified because it is used only in church?

Oops.

Did they? They got it wrong!

 

[the_phoenix]

Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea.

Where did your mass get that. Look through it. It got a lot from the same source.

Funny you should mention this … the Mass “got that” from the Bible story I just referred you to, of which you can find a version in Matthew 8:5-13.

Like I said in my previous post, there’s a distinct possibility that the Roman Centurion and Jesus spoke in Latin … Thus, if such were indeed the case, God DOES speak Latin.

~~ the phoenix

 

[Walking_Home]

Quote: Walking_Home
I don’t know whether it is true that ordinary people were discouraged from owning and reading the bible—but going with that thought—and LilyM’s statement----What were they to do with a bible----Have a protestant interpret it for them.

So no one interpreted the Bible for you until the Protestants came along. Please, you do your T/tradition no credit.
Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea.

Where did your mass get that. Look through it. It got a lot from the same source.

---

Can’t say—I wasn’t there. My family who did live in that time are dead–but the Faith that saw them until the end —came from God and the Church.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Dauphin,

You have been incredibly discouraging for several of us here in this forum today.

I may not be able to express myself as well as I would like, however I do understand exactly what is going on throughout the Mass, as does my 9 year old.

The attitude that you have had here with me and with several other posters is not that of a Christian. That word means to be “Christ like” , to take up your cross and follow him. Go ahead and mess with that one too.

Since I started attending the Catholic RCIA classes last September, I have created a chain reaction… I started telling everyone that I knew about the faith with excitement. At Easter a total of 6 of us entered together. This September we have brought 3 more into the RCIA and 1 more that comes to Mass.

Our attitude is the one to have. How many people are you bringing to Christ with the attitude you have? How can your arguements be benificial to anyone other than your self? You are posting for what appears to be self gratification and not to discuss but to argue.

I am a very good hearted and good natured person who is leaving now for Mass… I will be praying for you and your heart there.

Pam

Modern Photini (John 4:42),

I hope you place more stock in iamrefreshed, and will pay less to the likes of dauphin and me.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

I can’t believe you all had time from late morning to late afternoon to discuss this.

The lawns of the United States and Canada are looking pretty shaggy!

LOL.

To paraphrase No one having put his hand to the lawn mower, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God (Luke 9:62).

 

[the_phoenix]

Domine, non sum dignus, ut intres sub tectum meum: sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea.

Where did your mass get that. Look through it. It got a lot from the same source.

Just in case you missed it the first time, Isa Almisry:

Am reposting in the hopes that my posts are not getting lost in the shuffle because they’re coming too close to the end of the page such that you’re not even seeing what I’m posting —

Funny you should mention this … the Mass “got that” from the Bible story I just referred you to, of which you can find a version in Matthew 8:5-13.

Like I said in a previous post, there’s a distinct possibility that the Roman Centurion and Jesus spoke in Latin … Thus, if such were indeed the case, God DOES speak Latin.

~~ the phoenix