God Has a Body (Flesh & Blood) Is That a Mormon Teaching?

[Shiann]

Katholikos:

Shiann wrote:
The specific areas of Mongolia and Siberia are the ancestral homes of the American Indians – nowhere near Israel. They are not at all semetic. Moreover, Indians have mongoloid dentition. There are no semetic influences in their languages.

The Book of Mormon has many problems, not the least of which is that it was supposedly written in “Reformed Egyptian,” but it translated into imitation Elizabethan English, mimicking the KJV. It’s hard to imagine that "Reformed Egyptian (a language unknown to Egyptologists) translates as “Yea, verily.” A great deal of the BOM was lifted right out of the KJV.

There are other problems – such as a French word supposedly written in America 600 B.C., but the French language didn’t even begin developing until the 9th century A.D. in Europe. And it takes a foundry to make steel. Archaeology has found no evidence to support such claims. The list goes on.

The DNA evidence just caps it.
JMJ Jay

Just to clarify here Jay, my link provided evidence to back up PaulDupre’s assertion that Isreal was on the Asian continent. I was not trying to take a leap and try to provide evidence for the LDS philosophy. No offense, I just didn’t want people scanning this thread to make the same conclusion it looks like you made about my post.

Peace

 

[tkdnick]

Katholikos:

Shiann wrote:
The specific areas of Mongolia and Siberia are the ancestral homes of the American Indians – nowhere near Israel. They are not at all semetic. Moreover, Indians have mongoloid dentition. There are no semetic influences in their languages.

The Book of Mormon has many problems, not the least of which is that it was supposedly written in “Reformed Egyptian,” but it translated into imitation Elizabethan English, mimicking the KJV. It’s hard to imagine that "Reformed Egyptian (a language unknown to Egyptologists) translates as “Yea, verily.” A great deal of the BOM was lifted right out of the KJV.

There are other problems – such as a French word supposedly written in America 600 B.C., but the French language didn’t even begin developing until the 9th century A.D. in Europe. And it takes a foundry to make steel. Archaeology has found no evidence to support such claims. The list goes on.

The DNA evidence just caps it.
JMJ Jay

Not only is there the problem of no one being able to find anything about “Reformed Egyptian”, but…why on earth would Jewish people be speaking/writing in ANY form of Egyptian. Israelites practically hated Egyptians!

 

[PaulDupre]

tkdnick:

Not only is there the problem of no one being able to find anything about “Reformed Egyptian”, but…why on earth would Jewish people be speaking/writing in ANY form of Egyptian. Israelites practically hated Egyptians!

Mormon 9:32 says that they used “reformed egyptian” because it was more compact than Hebrew. But the BoM has the useless phrase “And it came to pass…” repeated about 10 zillion times throughout the entire text.

If they had left out all the “And it came to pass…” they could have written in Hebrew!

Mark Twain, in his book *Roughing It * wrote that, had Joseph Smith left out all the “And it came to pass”, they could have called it The Pamphlet of Mormon.
Paul

P.S.: In non-English translations of the BoM they leave out “And it came to pass…”

 

[Katholikos]

Shiann:

Just to clarify here Jay, my link provided evidence to back up PaulDupre’s assertion that Isreal was on the Asian continent. I was not trying to take a leap and try to provide evidence for the LDS philosophy. No offense, I just didn’t want people scanning this thread to make the same conclusion it looks like you made about my post.

Peace

Sorry I was unclear, Shiann (love your screen name). My comments were intended for Mrs. Colbert. Thanks, Peace, Jay

 

[BJ_Colbert]

Tdnick, and all who gave me information to help my husband in his study of Catholicism…I did see your post. THANK YOU! I really want him to know his religion as well as you all know it.

I went into the website about DNA that you posted, I think it was Paul that posted it. It was very slanted, and not at all what other DNA scientists said in other sites I checked. It may or may not be hate LDS, but I wrote to them and they wanted my phone number and the letter they wrote back was some of the worst hatred I have ever experienced. It seemed to be an ex-mormon and he was really over the edge with gross things. Just enough truth to make it seem real like all lies are. My blood just drained out of me and it made me weak with fear, that someone could actually be that vicious against another religion.
I’m sure you have all experienced that with your own religion, and it is not a good thing.
I checked with a DNA person and he said that the science is so new that there is no way that they can know for certain if someone in the present is related to someone 2500 years ago. He said that even my german blood from 6 generations back on my father’s side would not show up in my DNA.
Sorry, to be so argumentive, but are priests and Cardinals inspired by God? If so why have they been involved in molesting children? I hate to bring that up, but if Joseph Smith is not allowed to make any mistakes because he was a man of God, how is it that priests and Cardinals can make mistakes and still be men of God?
I feel bad to say this, but you have all said some worse things about my religion and my prophet, so I felt that you should explain this to me. Also the grilled cheese sandwich being sold on ebay last week that looked like the Virgin Mary, the woman in Florida kept it for 10 years next to her bed and then got an offer of $22,000 for it before ebay pulled it off. Do you really think the VIrgin Mary would appear on a grilled cheese sandwich?
You can see how these things appear to other people who are not Catholic. In the same way you can pick apart the LDS religion if you so choose and make it seem just as ridiculous. I am sorry to have brought up the above things, you probably have perfectly logical explanations and will go on believing as you do. And that is good. If you truly have faith in God, the things that men do is not going to shake your belief in God. And that is the same with me whatever you say to the contrary to make me believe something else, my faith is based in God and no amount of discussion will take my faith in God away. So DNA all you want
The worst critics of LDS are former LDS, because they do not want to believe it is true and there was a time I did not want to believe it was true. The Holy Spirit tells me it is true and nothing can shake my belief. It was a long hard road back home and I made it back and I have never felt such peace and joy, I would not give it up again for all the DNA testing in the world.
Meanwhile I will take my husband to the classes and buy the books you suggest and will never say bad things about his Catholic religion, and he says only good things about Mormons, and we love each other with all of our hearts and allow each other freedom of religion. I never bring up anything negative about the Catholic religion and he feels the Book of Mormon is true(yes he has read it), but he is believes in tradition and the Catholic religion for him is tradition.

 

[BJ_Colbert]

PaulDupre:

Mormon 9:32 says that they used “reformed egyptian” because it was more compact than Hebrew. But the BoM has the useless phrase “And it came to pass…” repeated about 10 zillion times throughout the entire text.

If they had left out all the “And it came to pass…” they could have written in Hebrew!

Mark Twain, in his book *Roughing It * wrote that, had Joseph Smith left out all the “And it came to pass”, they could have called it The Pamphlet of Mormon.
Paul

P.S.: In non-English translations of the BoM they leave out “And it came to pass…”

I agree, it is a lot of And it came to pass, I just pass right on over that. There is a lot of that in the Bible too, and Isaiah is just downright boring. It took me a lot of years to be able to understand either one the Bible or the Book of Mormon, and I am just now starting to understand and appreciate them both. Maybe the Doubleday issue that is out now in book stores left out the “and it came to pass” I certainly hope so.

 

[tkdnick]

BJ Colbert:

I went into the website about DNA that you posted, I think it was Paul that posted it. It was very slanted, and not at all what other DNA scientists said in other sites I checked. It may or may not be hate LDS, but I wrote to them and they wanted my phone number and the letter they wrote back was some of the worst hatred I have ever experienced. It seemed to be an ex-mormon and he was really over the edge with gross things. Just enough truth to make it seem real like all lies are. My blood just drained out of me and it made me weak with fear, that someone could actually be that vicious against another religion.

Well that’s just a little freaky that the person there wanted your phone number! That’s too bad that the person who contacted you was so negative!

 

[tkdnick]

BJ Colbert:

I agree, it is a lot of And it came to pass, I just pass right on over that. There is a lot of that in the Bible too, and Isaiah is just downright boring. It took me a lot of years to be able to understand either one the Bible or the Book of Mormon, and I am just now starting to understand and appreciate them both. Maybe the Doubleday issue that is out now in book stores left out the “and it came to pass” I certainly hope so.

You really think Isaiah is boring??? I haven’t read anywhere near all of it, but what I have read was interesting and uplifting. Guess that just goes to show people’s differences huh?

 

[PaulDupre]

BJ Colbert:

I went into the website about DNA that you posted, I think it was Paul that posted it. It was very slanted, and not at all what other DNA scientists said in other sites I checked. It may or may not be hate LDS, but I wrote to them and they wanted my phone number and the letter they wrote back was some of the worst hatred I have ever experienced.

Hi BJ,
I am interested in what you consider “hatred”. Could you please post specific quotes that you found offensive?

I ask this because Mormons often see any observation that contradicts what their prophets teach or points out a discrepancy in their beliefs as “hatred” and “persecution”, even if that observation is accurate. So it would help me to understand what you mean and perhaps I could be more careful when communicating with Mormons in the future.

I do not know the people who run that website, but they are apparently some sort of evangelical protestant group. Perhaps they are ex-Mormons. I don’t know. But they should not be hateful towards you.

BTW, I didn’t buy the video from them - it was a gift from someone I met at a talk I gave in Phoenix a few weeks ago.
Paul

 

[Tmaque]

BJ Colbert:

On the part about Joseph Smith believing the American Indians were the Lamanites, the jury is still out, but as I explained in a former post. Just because a man is called to be a prophet or a pope and is inspired and given revelation to lead God’s people, does not mean he suddenly has his brain replaced, and has no memory of past teachings or has no capacity to think on his own.
He is still a man and as a man can make mistakes. I pointed out example Moses who thought Bats were Birds and we have since with further scientific knowledge found that they are mammals. That is no reason to disbelieve the Bible.

There is a fundamental difference between believing some obscure notion regarding the genus a certain animal group falls into and receiving a “revelation” based on an entirely incorrect premise.

Moses did not receive a revelation about bats! Joseph Smith received “revelation” about Native Americans. He recieved revelation about a particular thing and that revelation was particularly wrong ABOUT that particular thing. Huge difference!!

Please don’t split hairs now by saying that the Book of Mormon wasn’t revelation. It was “revealed”, that’s all that matters for this argument. Any thinking person has to admit that if there had been millions of people already on the American continents when Nephi arrived surely it would have been mentioned. Is there even a suggestion of such a thing??? NO! That’s why for 170 years ALL Mormons believed that Native Americans were the Lamanites. This goes beyond blind faith…it’s just plain blindness…period.

 

[tkdnick]

BJ Colbert:

I am sorry to make flipant remarks about the visions of Mary that you worship, but it seems to be the perfect example of what you are pointing out about my beliefs, which by the way I do not recognize when you are describing them.

Just a clarification…we*** do not*** worship Mary!

BJ, don’t stop posting just because some people are “hostile” to your religion. Chris Wa has made an excellent suggestion…stay away from the “mormon bashing” and deal with the actual issues that are being presented. That’s the only way any conversation will get anywhere. I can’t speak for anyone else here (except for maybe Chris who has stated such), but I have enjoyed your posts and conversing with you.

 

[Katholikos]

BJ Colbert:

are priests and Cardinals inspired by God?

No.

If so why have they been involved in molesting children?

The majority of offenders were found to be homosexuals guilty of molesting teen-age boys, not children. The Church has been a victim too. These men used the Church to gain access to the boys. Nevertheless, the situation has been unfairly reported in the media. Far more Protestant ministers are guilty of sexual misconduct than Catholic priests. This has been documented in a study done by Philip Jenkins of Penn State. That’s no excuse – one misbehaving priest is too many.

I hate to bring that up, but if Joseph Smith is not allowed to make any mistakes because he was a man of God, how is it that priests and Cardinals can make mistakes and still be men of God?

The difference is that Joseph Smith deliberately deceived people about the Mormon religion and claimed to be a prophet of God. Millions of people have been misled. It was more than personal misconduct.

I feel bad to say this, but you have all said some worse things about my religion and my prophet, so I felt that you should explain this to me.

I and others have quoted directly from Mormon documents. I do not wish to hurt you in any way, but the evidence to support Joseph Smith’s story about the origin of the American Indians is completely lacking. My degree is in anthropology. There is no archaeological evidence of their presence anywhere on the American continents before Christ, and no semitic linguistic characteristics in any Indian language. The migration of peoples can be traced linguistically as well as genetically.

Mormonism contradicts itself. In the Book of Mormon says “For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none” (Jacob 2:27). Yet Joseph Smith took at least 33 wives, and about one third of them were still married to other men. Doctrine & Covenants 132 contradicts the BOM by commanding plural marriage. Then the LDS Church suspended polygyny in order for Utah to become a state, but the doctrine is just “on hold” until Mormans become the dominant religion in the U.S. Plural marriage (polygyny, one husband, more than one wife) is practiced now in many places in the U.S.

Also the grilled cheese sandwich being sold on ebay last week that looked like the Virgin Mary. . . Do you really think the VIrgin Mary would appear on a grilled cheese sandwich?

No. Incidents like this have nothing to do with the Catholic religion.

You can see how these things appear to other people who are not Catholic.

Why would you think this has anything to do with Catholicism?

In the same way you can pick apart the LDS religion if you so choose and make it seem just as ridiculous. . . The Holy Spirit tells me it is true and nothing can shake my belief. It was a long hard road back home and I made it back and I have never felt such peace and joy, I would not give it up again for all the DNA testing in the world.

And the Holy Spirit tells me it isn’t true. Can both messages be from the same Holy Spirit? The evidence against Mormonism is overwhelming – not just through DNA.

I will take my husband to the classes and buy the books you suggest and will never say bad things about his Catholic religion, and he says only good things about Mormons, and we love each other with all of our hearts and allow each other freedom of religion. I never bring up anything negative about the Catholic religion and he feels the Book of Mormon is true(yes he has read it), but he is believes in tradition and the Catholic religion for him is tradition.

You are a good and faithful wife, and he is a most fortunate husband. May God reward your loyalty.

Peace be with you, Jay

 

[searcher]

Does God have a body? I’m not sure. Does He love me? Of that I am very sure. I came to this forum because I was struggling. I have been a Mormon for over 30 years and have known Catholic friends and family members for almost as long. Two of my children have married Catholics. There are many things about the LDS Church I love and cherish, but there is a longing in my soul to learn more about the Catholic Church. I have posted on other places on this forum and many have been kind and prayerful. Now I’m wondering if I should stay here. Everyone keeps pointing out what the LDS Church may or may not have taught years ago instead of accepting what we believe either individually or as a Church today. I think it is better for me to keep to my discussions with my Catholic friends who truly respect my beliefs whether they agree with them or not. They share with me what they believe without trying to tear down my beliefs. I’m only becoming more confused as I continue here.

 

[searcher]

Sorry, I just want to apologize for my previous remarks. They really don’t have much to do with the topic. I also understand that everyone is responding from their deeply held beliefs. I will continue to search for mine.