God Has a Body (Flesh & Blood) Is That a Mormon Teaching?

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Sophie:
This will never happen. They are making way too much to give up the income from all those tithes and their pension plans wouldn’t be funded. 😉
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Sorry Sophie,
The Mormon Church does not have pension plans for the leadership of the church, they all volunteer their labor. They do have their own welfare system with ranches and farms that raise food for the poor in the church and out of the church. The ranch and farm managers are hired to run those businesses and they would have pensions as it is a job.
But the leaders of our church do not have pensions. They have regular jobs that they either work at or they have retired from and have pensions from those jobs. They hold jobs just like you or I do, and donate their time to the Church.

I am sure you know the Catholic church is not poor, and there I have a question. With all of the wealth of antiquities and treasure in the Sistine Chapel, why does the church not help the ones who are going bankrupt as I believe Boston, Portland, Spokane, and Phoenix have or are declaring bankruptcy. The Church could easily bail them out.
In our church the Temples and chapels are not even begun until they are paid in full, there are no mortgages. The money is shared and one ward or stake would never be left alone to go bankrupt.
My husband pledged $6000.00 to the Catholic church as well as his weekly donation and many times two weekly donations. Last week at Mass they collected for the retired priests fund as well as the regular donation. So don’t even go on about the wealth of the LDS church and pentions.
At least we use it to take care of people of all denominations, to include Catholic in the USA and all over the world in times of Earthquakes, Hurricanes, Fires and Famine.
Mormons donate in private not in church for all to see, and it is strictly voluntary.
My husband donates much more to the Catholic church since he saw my donation a couple of years ago.
So the Catholic church is benefiting indirectly from the one Mormon paying 10% of her gross. (that would be me)
 
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Katholikos:
BJ COLBERT wrote:

There are two genetic studies on video for us non-technical types. One is “The Real Eve” which traces the human lineage back to “Genetic Eve,” through mitochondrial DNA, available from the Discovery Channel. The other is “Journey of Man,The Story of The Human Species” a DNA study of human origins and relationships, available from PBS. Both trace our migration out of Africa and into other parts of the world. We are all Africans, and we are all brothers and sisters. Skin color and other human variations result from environmental differences. We were all Black (Genetic Eve and her children lived near the Equator) but became white, yellow, red, brown, whatever, over time as we adjusted to different environments. Every human being is related to every other human being – so racism is pure ignorance. The markers are in our DNA. Our migrations, too, can be traced through DNA.

American Indians are Mongoloid (Asian), not Semetic (Jewish). They crossed over the Bering Straits Land Bridge, between what is now Russia and Alaska, into the Americas. This is proven through dental studies (physical anthropology) as well as through DNA. This is scientific proof that Mormonism is not true. I know it’s a terrible blow, to have one’s beliefs shattered, but that’s the truth.

I have ordered the video DNA vs. Book of Mormon, but I haven’t seen it (yet).

Peace to all who post at Catholic Answers.

JMJ Jay
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It is OK, my beliefs are not shattered, actually with all this excercise they are getting stronger and I really enjoy learning more about what Catholics believe and also more about my church. You are making me dig down and study and I am not used to doing that, as I still work for a living and don’t always have the time to read as I have been since becoming involved with this forum.
I have been discussing this with my Catholic husband and he is very interested. He is 70 years old and never misses Mass, but has a very rudimentary knowledge of Catholicism. As I asked before, is there a class he could join to learn more, or is it strictly on his own. I as a Mormon am trying to teach him about his faith and he really is interested, but he thought he believed the same as I do, and it is difficult to convince him otherwise.
He has no intention of converting as it is tradition with him, but he really thinks he believes in the same God and the LDS church does and I have let him read these discussions and he can’t understand that there is a difference.
I am serious and not making a joke, please guide me to a class that he can take. There must be classes offered beyond Catecism He is paralyzed on the right side from brain surgery in April 03 and I would have to take him to the class, and then study it together. I have been reading the Catholic bible with him, and he enjoys that. He has been a Catholic all his life and never had a Catholic bible, he just knew it was different than the King James version.
Well, if someone knows of such a class or even a very simple video on the basic beliefs.
I have one more question, where did the word Catholic originate? and why is it not called the Church of God or some other reference to who’s church it is? Who named it Catholic and what does it mean?
 
Veronica Anne:
Not to state the obvious… but here’s the obvious:

catholic.com/library/noncatholic_groups.asp

Distinctive Beliefs of the Mormon Church
catholic.com/library/Distinctive_Beliefs_of_Mormon.asp

The Gods of the Mormon Church
catholic.com/library/Gods_of_the_Mormon_Church.asp

Mormon Stumpers
catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp

Mormonism’s Baptism for the Dead
catholic.com/library/Mormonism_Baptism_for_the_Dead.asp

Problems with the Book of Mormon
catholic.com/library/Problems_with_the_Book_of_Mormon.asp

By the way, I have a male friend who made it up to the 5th ring or so of the LDS heierarchy before he converted to Roman Catholic. He advises me that the missionaries who ride their bikes, 2 by 2, around town are NOT told the more intricate matters of the LDS church’s belief system until they are pretty well entrenched in LDS as their entire lifestyle.

He also advised me to NOT pull out the LDS platform from under their feet unless there’s a truly Christian platform there for them to rely upon. Otherwise, former LDS folks are in serious danger of winding up totally atheist.
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A few words of warning as to the above referenced links. If a doctrine is created or expounded by anyone but the Prophet while he holds that position (from being set apart to death), it is NOT authoritative.

Here’s another link for you guys, this one is more uplifting…
deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595105580,00.html
a counter to the DNA arguement:
jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/DNA.shtml

What position are any of you to judge, none of us are perfect, we do not blaspheme(sp?) your church. I am LDS and I am a Christian.

Brothers and Sisters,
I testify that I have witnessed and been the vessel of miracles of faith. I have through my faith and the Priesthood Authority that only the Lord can give have given blessings that have healed my children, other family members and friends, including Catholics. I have received a sure testimony of the Book of Mormon and the Ressurection of Jesus Christ, the literal Son of God. I know the God lives and He loves all of His Children! He does not want us to fight, he wants us to help eachother and those who cannot help themselves.
No reasoning of man can take that testimony away from me. I have received a witness in my soul. I close this testimony in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Brother John Terrence Leschorn
 
BJ COLBERT wrote:
I have one more question, where did the word Catholic originate? and why is it not called the Church of God or some other reference to who’s church it is? Who named it Catholic and what does it mean?
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Catholic means universal. The Greek word is Katholikos. The written name first appears in a letter from St. Ignatius to the Church at Smyrna. Ignatius was being taken under Roman guard from Antioch, were he was Bishop, to the Coliseum in Rome, where he was thrown to the lions in 110 A.D. for his Faith. He had refused to offer sacrifice to the Roman Emperor. Along the way, he wrote letters to the Churches he passed on his very long and slow journey. Here’s an excerpt from his letter.

"You must all follow the lead of the bishop, as Jesus Christ followed that of the Father; follow the presbytery (priests) as you would the Apostles; reverence the deacons as you would God’s commandment. Let no one do anything touching the Church, apart from the bishop. Let that celebration of the Eucharist be considered valid which is held under the bishop or anyone to whom he has committed it. Where the bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church."

Ignatius may have learned the name from the Apostles. He was a student of St. John the Apostle, author of the fourth Gospel. He was ordained a bishop by St. Peter, and he was a friend of St. Paul’s. The Church had already spread over the entire known world – it was “universal.”

The name stuck – it has been called Catholic ever since. Jesus called it simply “The Church” or “My Church.”

JMJ Jay

P.S. St. John died about 100, so his student, Ignatius, was writing only ten years or so after the Apostle’s death.
 
BJ Colbert:
It is OK, my beliefs are not shattered, actually with all this excercise they are getting stronger and I really enjoy learning more about what Catholics believe and also more about my church. You are making me dig down and study and I am not used to doing that, as I still work for a living and don’t always have the time to read as I have been since becoming involved with this forum.
I have been discussing this with my Catholic husband and he is very interested. He is 70 years old and never misses Mass, but has a very rudimentary knowledge of Catholicism. As I asked before, is there a class he could join to learn more, or is it strictly on his own. I as a Mormon am trying to teach him about his faith and he really is interested, but he thought he believed the same as I do, and it is difficult to convince him otherwise.
He has no intention of converting as it is tradition with him, but he really thinks he believes in the same God and the LDS church does and I have let him read these discussions and he can’t understand that there is a difference.
I am serious and not making a joke, please guide me to a class that he can take. There must be classes offered beyond Catecism He is paralyzed on the right side from brain surgery in April 03 and I would have to take him to the class, and then study it together. I have been reading the Catholic bible with him, and he enjoys that. He has been a Catholic all his life and never had a Catholic bible, he just knew it was different than the King James version.
Well, if someone knows of such a class or even a very simple video on the basic beliefs.
I have one more question, where did the word Catholic originate? and why is it not called the Church of God or some other reference to who’s church it is? Who named it Catholic and what does it mean?
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BJ, most parishes offer several ministries for faith formation. Your parish should have an RCIA program (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults) that meets once a week to teach those who are converting to Catholicism. Your average Catholic can attend also. Most parishes offer weekly bible studies. Some parishes have adult religious education classes each week also. Check his parish bulletin to find out when and where those things occur. Also, if he doesn’t have one already, he should get a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It’s an authoritative document for all church teaching.

As to your question regarding the word “Catholic.” It means “universal.” The following link gives the details:
[www.catholic.com/library/what_catholic_means.asp](http://www.catholic.com/library/what_catholic_means.asp)
 
BJ Colbert:
Sorry Sophie,
The Mormon Church does not have pension plans for the leadership of the church, they all volunteer their labor. They do have their own welfare system with ranches and farms that raise food for the poor in the church and out of the church. The ranch and farm managers are hired to run those businesses and they would have pensions as it is a job.
But the leaders of our church do not have pensions. They have regular jobs that they either work at or they have retired from and have pensions from those jobs. They hold jobs just like you or I do, and donate their time to the Church.
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I thought that was only at the ward and stake level. I was told that the Apostles and the Prophet are full-time ministries and that they receive a salary and all that stuff.
 
BJ COLBERT wrote:
As I asked before, is there a class he could join to learn more, or is it strictly on his own. I as a Mormon am trying to teach him about his faith and he really is interested, but he thought he believed the same as I do, and it is difficult to convince him otherwise.
He has no intention of converting as it is tradition with him, but he really thinks he believes in the same God and the LDS church does and I have let him read these discussions and he can’t understand that there is a difference.
I am serious and not making a joke, please guide me to a class that he can take. There must be classes offered beyond Catecism He is paralyzed on the right side from brain surgery in April 03 and I would have to take him to the class, and then study it together. I have been reading the Catholic bible with him, and he enjoys that. He has been a Catholic all his life and never had a Catholic bible, he just knew it was different than the King James version.
Well, if someone knows of such a class or even a very simple video on the basic beliefs.
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All Catholic Church have a class called RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults). It is a complete course in the Catholic Faith. Just call your nearest Catholic Church and ask them about it. Tell them your situation. They may have other classes to offer that they can tell you about.

I’m looking for a basic video that would be suitable for you.
I’ll be praying for you and your husband.

Thank you for asking.

JMJ Jay

(JMJ is for Jesus, Mary, and Joseph. Catholics refer to them as the Holy Family. As I write their initials, I say a little prayer asking for their blessing.)
 
It is OK, my beliefs are not shattered, actually with all this excercise they are getting stronger and I really enjoy learning more about what Catholics believe and also more about my church. You are making me dig down and study and I am not used to doing that, as I still work for a living and don’t always have the time to read as I have been since becoming involved with this forum.
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I know of two different on-line resources that are supposed to be good:
www.catechismclass.com
www.salvationhistory.com

I do not know who runs the catechism site, but the salvation history site is run by Scott Hahn who is a big name Catholic theologian from Franciscan University of Steubenville.

Where Catholic came from:
It was first used in the 2nd or 3rd century to describe The Church. It was orginally used as an adjective. Catholic literally means “of the whole” or “universal”. It was used to note that the entire world was a part of The Church and that there was only one Church. It was applied to The Church often enough that it stuck and is now how we identify ourselves.
 
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leschorndad:
What position are any of you to judge, none of us are perfect, we do not blaspheme(sp?) your church. I am LDS and I am a Christian.

Brothers and Sisters,
I testify that I have witnessed and been the vessel of miracles of faith. I have through my faith and the Priesthood Authority that only the Lord can give have given blessings that have healed my children, other family members and friends, including Catholics. I have received a sure testimony of the Book of Mormon and the Ressurection of Jesus Christ, the literal Son of God. I know the God lives and He loves all of His Children! He does not want us to fight, he wants us to help eachother and those who cannot help themselves.
No reasoning of man can take that testimony away from me. I have received a witness in my soul. I close this testimony in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.

Brother John Terrence Leschorn
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No offense, but the LDS church blasphemes the Catholic Church repeatedly in the BoM when it talks about the great abominable church, the Romish church, the church of the devil (I don’t have references here, but look into your church history and see their stance on all other Christian church ESPECIALLY the Catholic Church). Plus, the whole basis for Joseph Smith’s starting the LDS church is a blaspheme against our church. The angel supposedly told him that he should join no church because they were all an ABOMINATION TO GOD! How is that NOT blashpeming our church? Now obviously you personally have not blasphemed the Catholic Church (as far as I know), and your specific ward/stake/region has not blasphemed the Catholic Church, but it IS a part of LDS history.

Also, your testimony can as easily be said by anyone. I can make the EXACT same testimony you have just made for my Catholic faith. The fact that you can say those things does not make it true. I agree with you, however, that God does not want us to fight. He wants us to be one body in His church (which most of us here know to be the Catholic Church).
 
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tkdnick:
Sounds like maybe I’ll have to check out this video! Anyone know where I can get it?

Here’s what I would REALLY LOVE to see as the future of the LDS faith: The President and the 12 find the truth of Catholic teaching and convert en masse!
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The video *DNA vs The Book of Mormon * is available at:

lhvm.org/dna.htm

Paul
 
Thank you all for responding so well to my questions, I will check the bulletin for the class for my husband. It is very interesting about the meaning of the word Catholic, and you all agreed so it must be true. I had heard that it meant chair, as in the Chair of Peter, I think I got that definition from the “Holy See”? Which I thought was a Catholic web site, but now I don’t know. It was a long time ago that I was searching for answers for my husband and found that site. Anyway, thank you for your help, I do want him to know his religion better and a class should help. He has a lot of questions.

PS Leschorndad, the site you recommended for the DNA thing was great, just what I said in an earlier post, about there being so many other migrations here before Lehi came. Also, the part about the Jewish bloodlines, is really interesting, I have printed it out for my son to read. Just shows people believe what they want to believe without really checking other facts. That goes for all stories, not just the ones on DNA. I don’t think the Book of Mormon says that Lehi was a Jew, but that doesn’t matter if you read the other reports by Archeologists about the migrations. It remains to be seen, as they say the jury is still out. The Discovery Channel program is really a good one too about the Australian migrations.

I’m sure there are many stories derogatory about Catholics, but I choose not to read or listen to negative things as I would tend to think they are written by people who do not like the church and would seek to destroy it. Prophets or Popes are not always in tune with God, they are human beings too and as such have times of human thought and make human mistakes. There are only certain times that they are inspired by the Lord. So if there are lapses in Holiness, let it be allowed that they are only human, and trying like all of us to follow the Savior’s example.
 
BJ COLBERT wrote:
It is very interesting about the meaning of the word Catholic, and you all agreed so it must be true. I had heard that it meant chair, as in the Chair of Peter
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The Latin word for chair (as in the Chair of Peter) is cathedra – that’s where we get the word “cathedral.” Every bishop has a cathedra – the symbol of his authority – where he sits during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The cathedral is the Church where the bishop’s chair is located.

Thanks for asking.🙂

JMJ Jay
 
To BJ COLBERT (and anyone else who is interested)

Here is a free online class in Catholicism that might be helpful to you and your husband.

I’m still looking for a video for you.

amm.org/chss/chss.htm
 
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tkdnick:
BJ, if you believe that God continues to reveal truths through your prophet, then could you please explain this from the Bible?

“God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds” Hebrews 1:1-2.

Seems to me that the writer of Hebrews is contradicting your beliefs.
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Just re-reading some threads I missed. This is simple in my mind, and you may agree my mind is very simple, and this is only what comes to my mind without consulting or reading official doctrine of any kind.
When Jesus was born and performed His ministry, and he died and was resurrected into heaven, he became the heir of this world, and is now the God of this world. He is the Father’s only begotten in body and he also was there to help create the worlds, along with the Holy Spirit. The three worked together in the creation, but now Jesus as the God of this world speaks to the prophets, where before it was only his Father speaking. God the Father actually and simply turned this world over to His Son as His heir and our main contact with Him.
 
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tkdnick:
I thought that was only at the ward and stake level. I was told that the Apostles and the Prophet are full-time ministries and that they receive a salary and all that stuff.
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That’s true. At the local level, Mormon Church leadership is part-time and unpaid.

The “General Authorities” consisting of
Code: 
   The 1st Presidency
   The Quorum of the 12 Apostles
   The 1st Quorum of the Seventy
   The Second Quorum of the Seventy
are all full-time, salaried employees of the Mormon Church for life. And yes, they have a pension plan.
Paul
 
BJ Colbert:
Prophets or Popes are not always in tune with God, they are human beings too and as such have times of human thought and make human mistakes. There are only certain times that they are inspired by the Lord. So if there are lapses in Holiness, let it be allowed that they are only human, and trying like all of us to follow the Savior’s example.
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Catholics agree with parts of this completely, but I don’t see how Mormons can. If you accept prophets can have these lapses and still remain legitimate prophets, than you have to accept that the leaders of the early church could also, which kind of flies in the face of the great apostacy. This would point to the conclusion that the early church leaders could make mistakes and still remain legitimate leaders of God’s church, which is something the LDS emphatically deny.
 
BJ - :tiphat: I must say that I am impressed that you are trying to help your husband learn and understand his Catholic faith. VERY FEW people encourage friends family to explor religion when it’s different from the one they believe in. I hope you find the resources you’re looking for. There are certainly plenty out there!
 
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PaulDupre:
The video *DNA vs The Book of Mormon * is available at:

lhvm.org/dna.htm

Paul
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I checked this out and it is nothing but a Hate Mormon site, very disputable, as it only has one view of DNA testing and has thrown out reference to European DNA as being a polution of modern times. In fact the Book of Mormon does not reference the origin of any except Lehi who was of Hebraic origins, but not of the tribe of Judah, he was from Mannasah. The origin of his wife Soriah is not known, and after 2600 years of intermarriage it is pretty much impossible for one strain of mitochondrial DNA to survive if indeed she was from the tribe of Judah. As far as early LDS and ( present day LDS )thinking that American Indians were only descended from the Lamanites, it is perfectly understandable that they being uneducated on this subject, and just arrived from Europe and were speaking from their knowledge at the time. They were not speaking from God or study, they were just excited about the American Indians and presumed them to be directly descended from Book of Mormon people. The Book of Mormon does not say that Lehi or any of his party were Jewish and therefore can not be disproved by DNA studies. I was brought up to believe this, but with travel and growing knowledge of the world in later years I knew about other migrations. I had come to the conclusion years before DNA studies that there would have been much intermarriage and with wars a possibility that there would be no bloodline left from that era.
Did the discovery that God did not create Earth in 7 days as we know time, destroy the Christian belief in the Creation? No, there was a very logical explanation that God has periods of time, not 24 hour days. Which made parts of evolution fit perfectly with the Biblical explanation of the Creation. But for many thousands of years Christians believed it was only 7 -24 hour days. I believed that when I was a child. Some are trying to prove that man descended from primates, it it were proven would you disbelieve the Biblical story of Adam and Eve? Did they descend from Apes? It has supposedly been proven by scientists who do not believe in God.
 
BJ Colbert:
Just re-reading some threads I missed. This is simple in my mind, and you may agree my mind is very simple, and this is only what comes to my mind without consulting or reading official doctrine of any kind.
When Jesus was born and performed His ministry, and he died and was resurrected into heaven, he became the heir of this world, and is now the God of this world. He is the Father’s only begotten in body and he also was there to help create the worlds, along with the Holy Spirit. The three worked together in the creation, but now Jesus as the God of this world speaks to the prophets, where before it was only his Father speaking. God the Father actually and simply turned this world over to His Son as His heir and our main contact with Him.
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Now I am confused and having the simple mind. I have always been told by LDS members that the story of the Old Testament is the story of Jesus interacting with His people. Now you are telling me something different. You are telling me that the OT is God (the father) interacting with His people. Which is it?
 
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