God Has a Body (Flesh & Blood) Is That a Mormon Teaching?

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In re the Mormon God having sex with the Virgin Mary (see Paul Dupre’s post):

Jesus is the Son of God, conceived during an act of sexual intercourse between Heavenly Father and an unidentified mother (a God-Mother perhaps?), who lived pre-existent to his earthly life in a spirit-sphere, according to official Mormon doctrine. Lucifer is his brother.

"Our Lord is the only mortal person ever born [on earth] to a virgin, because he is the only person who ever had an immortal Father. Mary, his mother, ‘was carried away in the Spirit’ . . . and the conception which took place . . . resulted in the bringing forth of the literal and personal Son of God the Father. (Mormon Doctrine, p. 322)

“Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived, and born in the normal and natural course of events . . .” (Mormon Doctrine, p. 742)

In the “normal and natural course of events” a father has sexual intercourse with the mother to produce a son or daughter. Therefore some Mormons have logically concluded that to beget Jesus, God had intercourse with Mary when she was allegedly “carried away in the Spirit.” This is implied in official Mormon doctrine, though it isn’t explicitly stated.

JMJ Jay
 
Thank you for your kind words, I will make one more effort to explain my belief. Since I have never seen God, I only know what I believe in my heart and from my reading of the bible. I believe that there are worlds without end and there is no beginning and no ending. Life and God is eternal. It is only speculation to say how he created our spirits and only logical to think that if we have a Father in Heaven, we must have a Mother in Heaven. I believe he patterned our existence on earth as it is in Heaven. I know that I can pray to my Father in Heaven and he hears my prayers, I know that the Holy Ghost or Spirit is God’s messenger and we have this spirit to bear witness to the existence of God. I can feel when the spirit is in me and when it leaves me. That still small voice has prompted me many times in my life and helped save my life and my children’s lives several times, because I listened. I believe that each person whether Mormon or Catholic has their own interpretation of things unknown. I do not believe that there are great differences between Mormons and Catholics. I did believe that before I started going to both churches every Sunday for 6 years. The Sacrament or Communion prayers are almost identical, many times the gospel given by the priest was the same message taught in the Mormon church on the same Sunday. I sometimes thought they must follow the same book( could it be the bible?). Granted the Catholic mass is more pomp and circumstance and the LDS church is unpaid ministry made up of people who have regular jobs outside of church,( my Bishop has an insurance business) but they have the same message. I can not say for certain what God’s body is made up of, I have been told we are in his image, therefore his body must be the same as Jesus body, and I can not testify as to how he produced his spirit children, I have never read, nor do I believe that he had sexual intercourse with Mary or any other women. That is an earthly way of having children, I am sure there is a spiritual way and only God knows that information. It is not important and it is mere speculation by anyone who claims to know, there is no way to actually know until you pass through to the other side. I am only a human and not well-versed in scripture and speculation, I only know what I personally believe and I believe it by faith, and the Holy Spirit testifies to me that it is true.
 
B.J.Colbert said," I do not believe that there are great differences between Mormons and Catholics."

This is an astounding statement. There are so many differences that if pressed it would take me perhaps 15 minute just to list the differences. So I won’t.

I am not looking to hurt feelings or start a debate - but if one thinks there are FEW DIFFERENCES between Catholic and Morman Theology…I say that person has a superficial understanding of both.
 
BJ Colbert wrote:
I do not believe that there are great differences between Mormons and Catholics.
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There is absolutely no similarity in Catholic and Mormon belief. None. We do not even believe in the same God: Christians believe in one God. Mormons believe in many gods and even that they themselves will become gods. We have more in common with Muslims than with Mormons (they also are monotheistic).

Catholic Answers is a good place to learn what Catholics believe.
If we can help you, let us know.

JMJ Jay
 
I am looking at the spirit of the believer and not the doctrinal differences. I know that both religions believe in God and there is a difference in whether God and his Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are all one personage, or as LDS believe, separate beings and one in purpose. I know that we believe in baptism by emersion as Christ taught and Catholics have evolved into baptism by sprinkling because of water shortages in some areas of the world(at least that is what I have been told by some Catholics), I know that we(LDS) believe that God never stopped communicating with his people and that the people on the European continant were not the only ones he communicated with in biblical times. It is only logical that He would always communicate and guide his children. Either the Catholic Church which claims to be in existence since Jesus was here, is the one and only true church, Or it is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints commonly referred to as Mormon, which claims to have been “restored” as it was originally set up by Jesus Christ Himself, with a Prophet and 12 Apostles, baptism by emersion etc.etc. All other religions are off shoots of the Catholic church, except Jewish, Muslim, Jane, Budhist etc. I may be wrong, because as I said before I am not a student of religion, in fact am just a baby when it comes to scripture and church history. I know what I feel and when I go to the Catholic church I see a lot of similarities, but that is not to say I do not see the differences. I prefer to see the similarities, because if we start to point out all of the differences we could go on and on and would only cause distress to each other and would cause hatred and scorn where there should be only tolerance and respect for each other and each others religious beliefs. We believe in God the eternal Father and in His Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Ghost and allow all others the same priviledge. Let them worship how, where and what they may. I would presume that you believe the same or you would not live in the America, which is founded on freedom of religion, and personal freedom.
 
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leschornmom:
I will only reply to this Thread once because I will not be the subject of your cold hearted and FALSE comments. I dont know what “Mormon” doctrine you have studied. It certainly was not that of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Perhaps it was the RLDS Church, which is a distorted branch that broke off from the original Chuch some time around the1940s.These people claim to be Mormons also but thier practices differ from ours greatly!
If you would like to bat around your falsehoods, you go right ahead. If you are truly interested in the teachings of our church please feel free to visit our official web sight lds.org. There is a question and answer forum some what like this one.
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The summary given by PaulDupre is in line with what I’ve gathered from LDS.ORG, a Bishop of the LDS Church that I work with, and what I’ve gathered from other LDS sources, such as the King Follet Discourse of Joseph Smith.

Other Mormons have denied this doctrine, however, other Mormons have affirmed this doctrine (notably, those holding the office of Bishop). Seems to me that there’s disagreement or disunity of belief in the Mormon Church regarding the doctrine of eternal progression. I tend to believe that which I learned from my Mormon Bishop friend.
 
BJ, thanks for the post. It’s obvious that you have a heart for God. I appreciate what you said. I am a Catholic married to a Mormon (sorry that somebody started this thread with “Morman”). I know what it’s like to go with her to church and even sometimes sit in on her Sunday school classes and go to the priesthood meetings, and visit with her home teachers when they come over.

When we started dating I wasn’t too serious about my religion. I took the missionary discussions and asked a lot of questions. Though I was not a thoroughly educated Catholic, I noticed right away that there were some major differences between the two religions. I knew I had to find out what I believed, so I spent a lot of time studying Catholicism and Mormonism, and in prayer. Here are some of the major differences:
  1. Mormons believe in a great apostacy where all church authority was lost from the earth sometime around the death of the apostles. Catholics believe the church has continued on until this day uninterrupted through apostolic succession.
  2. Mormons believe God the Father is a resurrected man who eventually became who He is today through eternal progression. Catholics believe God the Father was never a man. He was always God from the beginning and will never increase in His glory any more than He has right now or ever had.
  3. Mormons believe our earthly families can be sealed for eternity and continue to function in heaven as we do now on earth. Catholics believe that all humans will be part of one family in one heaven.
  4. Mormons believe in three levels of heaven. Catholics believe in one heaven and one hell. We end up in one or the other.
  5. Mormons believe that the sacrement is a symbol used to remember Christ’s sacrifice for us. Catholics believe that Jesus Christ is truly present in the Eucharist–body, blood, soul and divinity, under the appearance of bread and wine (a miracle every Sunday).
  6. Mormons believe that those who haven’t been given the gospel and baptized on earth before they died must be receive a proxy baptism in order to accept or reject the gospel as taught to them in heaven. Catholics believe we are judged immediately after death, heaven or hell, based on our actions during our lives and our circumstances.
These are but a few of the major differences. We cannot dismiss them as minor in order to smooth things over. We can have charitable discussions on them without feeling personally attacked.

So what steered my back toward Catholicism? I just plain found out that what the missionaries told me about the apostacy wasn’t true. After researching the early church through the bible and through its history (and I’m talking about first and second century here), I discovered that all the things the early church believed are what you find in Catholicism–especially when it comes to the Eucharist. Most LDS accept the premise of the great apostacy without really looking into it. I would encourage you to explore this issue in great depth with the many available resources out there. Take care.
 
Here’s some source info for the doctrine of eternal progression:

God the Father has a father, and God became God.
Bruce R. McConkie in his book Mormon Doctrine p. 577 says, "…there is an infinite number of holy personages drawn from worlds without number, who have passed on to exaltation, and are thus gods… If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that he had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a Father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son?

Joseph Smith Said in Teachings of The Prophet Joseph Smith P. 345 “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!.. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so you may see.”

James E. Talmage’s book A Study of the Articles of Faith on page 430 he writes, “We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists of eternal advancement - a being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow … the Church proclaims the eternal truth: ‘As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be.’”

Orson Pratt in The Seer says, “The Gods who dwell in the Heaven from which our spirits came, are beings who have been redeemed from the grave in a world which existed before the foundations of this Earth were laid. They and the Heavenly body which they now inhabit were once in a fallen state… they were exalted also, from fallen men to Celestial Gods”.
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You are wrong when you say Mormons believe in many gods, there is only one God and that is God the Father. I could say the same about Catholics, because my husband prays to Mary a lot and Joseph, St Christopher etc. etc. Mostly he prays to Mary. Mormons only have one God that they pray to, we do not believe that there are any others of this world(there may be other worlds,but we do not worship those gods if there are any) That again is speculation and not a subject for discussion as there is no way anyone could know for a fact if that is true. I have only been raised to believe in One God, and his Son Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit which is the communicator for the Father and the Son. I have never heard of the things you are claiming we believe and I am 62 years old and was born into the Mormon church as was my mother before me and my grandparents and my great-grandparents who were driven out of Nauvoo, Illinois and had to leave all of their homes and possessions to the mobs and travel west with Brigham Young and the other pioneers after Joseph Smith and his brother were shot to death by a mob in the Carthage jail in Missouri. I know that our church is growing very fast and the membership is now at over 12 million souls with 123 Temples all over the world. I do not believe that it could grow so fast in less than 200 years if the Lord was not guiding it. Mexico just crossed the 1 million mark and is growing in membership faster than any other country. In my city alone over 150 persons are being baptized per month.
The point is I nor anyone I know has ever prayed to or believed in any other God, but God the Father. I am sure He is your main God even though you go through other Saints to pray to Him, it is still the same and only true God. I have a personal relationship with God, and pray to him directly with no mediation by people who have passed on, such as Mary or Joseph or Mother Theresa.
That is a big difference in our religions, but still it is our belief that we have the same God, and that He is the Father of us all.
 
To: Chris_Wa

You are absolutely right on and I agree with your comments. You expressed the truth and did it well. Others in this discussion would do well to read your post. As for God, you know we only pray to one and do not worship any other. Thank You!!!
 
BJ - Just a curiosness question…itsjustdave included a quote in his post from high profile LDS leader Bruce McKonkie (sp?) stating a belief in multiple worlds with multiple gods. I understand the praying and worshipping only one God, but is it also true that LDS members acknowledge that there are other gods for other worlds?
 
BJ Colbert:
You are wrong when you say Mormons believe in many gods, there is only one God and that is God the Father. …
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Do you deny this?
Orson Pratt in The Seer says, “The Gods who dwell in the Heaven from which our spirits came…”
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Orson Pratt was a 19th century elder of the LDS Church, no? He knew Joseph Smith personally, no? According to the LDS.ORG source, “While serving a later mission in Washington, D.C., Elder Pratt published *The Seer, *a defense of the Church …”

Was Elder Pratt incorrect in asserting that the GODS (plural) are in the heaven “from which our spirits came?”
 
BJ_Colbert,

Also, according to the BYU frequently asked questions:

At ldsfaq.byu.edu/ [under *Doctrine and Theology:God and Godhead: What was the doctrinal impact of the King Follett Discourse? ]
[Joseph Smith’s King Follet] discourse … included several doctrines, four of which are of primary importance to this discussion: (1) men can become gods, (2) there exists many gods, (3) the gods exist one above another innumerably, and (4) God was once as man now is. While the strong reaction to the discourse suggested that it shocked the Saints with startling new doctrines, the ideas and fragments of the doctrines had been taught earlier to at least a select group of Church members. In 1832, Joseph received revelation, detailed in “The Vision,” that men can become equal with God. Between 1835 and 1839, he began to teach that there were many gods and that the gods “exist one above another, so that there is no end.” Finally, between 1838 and 1841, Joseph taught that God had not always been a God, having once existed as man.
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Do you deny that these were in fact doctrines of the LDS Church taught by Joseph Smith?
.
 
I think the point many have attempted to make is that the God you pray to was once a man. *NOT OUR GOD!! The GOD we pray to was the same God eternally, without change. *

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Contrary to Joseph Smith’s doctrine that God is ever changing, ever increasing in exaltation, that is not our God. God the Father was never a man. He was always the uncreated eternal and spiritual being as He exists today, manifest as one God in three persons. God the Son was always the Son of God, even prior to the incarnation. God the Spirit was also always and eternally existent without change. That God the Son became manifest in the flesh did not change the Godhead–which consists of and will always consist of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I can never become as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have always been–eternally Divine. Niether may any other human.

That we fundamentally differ with regard to the number of gods in existence makes us fundamentally a different religion. That Christians assert “We believe in one God” means that we worship only one God and that we believe that there is only one true God in existence, yesterday, today, and forever. There cannot be more than one Divine Being according to Judeo-Christian theology. LDS theology would have us believe otherwise.
 
BJ Colbert:
I know that our church is growing very fast and the membership is now at over 12 million souls with 123 Temples all over the world. I do not believe that it could grow so fast in less than 200 years if the Lord was not guiding it. QUOTE]

By “guiding it” it seems to me you are implying that it must be God’s true church because it’s growing so quickly. But, Islam is growing faster than Mormonism, does that now mean that God’s real religion is Islam?
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the LDS teaching is that God has a body of “flesh and bone”
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This is precisely what LDS doctrine asserts:
Latter-day Saints perceive God the Father in the most literal, anthropomorphic terms. The Prophet Joseph Smith explained, “The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit” (Doctrine and Covenants 130:22).
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BJ Colbert wrote:
You are wrong when you say Mormons believe in many gods, there is only one God and that is God the Father. I could say the same about Catholics, because my husband prays to Mary a lot and Joseph, St Christopher etc. etc.
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Ample evidence for polytheism from official documents of the Mormon church has been presented.

I’m glad you’re here at Catholic Answers, Mrs. Colbert. This is a good place to unlearn the idea that saints are gods in Catholic teaching and belief. Saints are mere mortals who have made it to heaven through love of God and lives of heroic virtue. They are our role models. We ask them to pray for us. We, too, hope to be in heaven one day. There is only one God.

I hope you will want to stay with us here at CA for a long time.

JMJ Jay
 
I know only what I believe, that there is One God above all others, and of this world that we live in. He is supreme above all others and I worship only Him, no other God. There may be others, but not of this world and we strive to follow Jesus teachings so that we may become perfect as Jesus is, but we also believe that not many will reach that status. If they do it will only be known after we die and not before. Again the persons in the LDS church that you are quoting, are not writing scripture and can speculate on any subject they wish to speculate on, just as the Catholic church speculates that Mary must be almost equal to God and therefore prayers are offered to her. There is no scripture that equates Mary with God, only personal belief by Catholics who revere her over God in many cases. All people have their free agency to believe as they see fit. It does not mean what they believe and write down is correct, or incorrect. We can not know these things for a certainty except through the Spirit and I guess when we die. I know what I believe, but I will never be able to explain it to you, because it is a pesonal belief and I KNOW I only believe and pray to ONE God. When you talk of other gods, it is because you do not understand the principle and you never will because you believe in God in your own way. Make no mistake about it, we both believe in the same God, no matter what the translation is. There is only one God over our earth and He is the same for you as for me. Our understanding of Him is just different and will be no matter how long and deep our discussions continue. I will not convince you that I believe in one God, and you will not convince me that I believe in many gods. So just be at peace with the knowledge that there is only One God and we are brothers and sisters, no matter the understanding, or lack of it about what He looks like and where He lives. I love you all and know you are only searching for understanding. I think we would do well to understand our own religions better and not try so hard to misunderstand other peoples’ religion. It is very simple and not that difficult to believe in One God, the truth is always the same, never changing and God is always the same never changing. We are the ones who should always be changing and striving to become better and more loving accepting people, as Jesus taught us to follow Him and love one another as he has loved us. I do not seem to be contributing to any understanding of LDS beliefs, you will all believe as you wish to believe in the end. It has been a real surprise for me to find out that Catholics believe that Mormons do not believe in the same God, I never knew that before. My husband is very surprised to find out also, because we pray together and always thought it was the same God. Oh well, the more we try to understand the more we misunderstand.
 
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Katholikos:
BJ Colbert wrote:

Ample evidence for polytheism from official documents of the Mormon church has been presented.

I’m glad you’re here at Catholic Answers, Mrs. Colbert. This is a good place to unlearn the idea that saints are gods in Catholic teaching and belief. Saints are mere mortals who have made it to heaven through love of God and lives of heroic virtue. They are our role models. We ask them to pray for us. We, too, hope to be in heaven one day. There is only one God.

I hope you will want to stay with us here at CA for a long time.

JMJ Jay
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Just a follow up for BJ…We do not pray to the saints in the same way that we pray to God. Our praying to the saints is like asking a friend to pray for us. We say “St. Joseph pray for me.” Or something similar. We are asking them to add their prayers to ours.
 
BJ, I think one thing that seems to make it hard for Catholics and LDS to come together on terms, is that there have been so many LDS authors/prophets/apostles who have said so many different things. As I’m sure you know from being here on Catholic Answers, it is the same for Catholics as well. Seems there are a bunch of different views from people all calling themselves the same thing. I can tell you that everything that was posted in this thread both by yourself and by others, I have heard as LDS points of view from LDS members. It’s very hard for us as non-LDS to understand your religion when we hear so many different things from so many different people. Unfortunately, the same can be said of Catholicism. So many people all saying that what they teach or say is true Catholic teaching.
 
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