God Has a Body (Flesh & Blood) Is That a Mormon Teaching?

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Wow! some discussion, but as I said we will never agree on what our beliefs are because we KNOW what we believe and you only
Yesterday in the Catholic church I attend with my husband, a woman was there and who had attended a special meeting called a Synod. At that meeting she was given enough of a special crucifix which was blessed by the Pope, to hand one out to every member at mass. It was the image of the Father(God)the son(Jesus) and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove. All three separate and identified as such.
Here is the written paper that was given with the cruicifix.
“The images come from a fresco in Italy, entitled The Trinity, it was executed by a painter named Masacio in 1425. In the painting God the Father offers to the viewer, his crucified Son, to whom he is united by the bond of Love who is the Holy Spirit.
All these images are deeply rooted in the Holy Scriptures. God the Father is depicted as a man of mature age, bearded and solemn. This image is based on the prophecy in the book of Daniel, chapter 7, at verses 9-10, 13-14. The prophet beholds a portentous figure coming to the judgement seat, whom it characterizes as the “Ancient of Days”
“As I watched:
Thrones were set in place and one of great age took his seat.
His robe was white as snow and the hair of his head was pure as wool. His throne was ablaze of flames…A stream of fire poured out, issuing from his presence. A thousand, thousand waited on him, ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The prophecy goes on the describe how there approachs the “Ancient of Days” one who is to receive power and sovereignty that will never pass away. That one is Jesus Christ: I gazed into the visions of the night. And I saw, coming on the clouds of heaven one like a son of man. He came to the one of great age…
On him was conferred sovereignty, glory, and kingship, and men of all peoples, nations and languages became his servants.
His sovereignty is an eternal sovereignty which shall never pass away nor will his empire ever be destroyed.”
The second person of the Blessed Trinity is depicted on the Cruicifix at the moment of handing over his spirit. His body is still powerfully vibrant. This image is rooted in the Gospel of John, the tenth chapter at verses 17-18, where Jesus declares:
The Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from me; I lay it down of my own free will and as it is in my power to take it up again; and this is the cammand I have been given by my Father”.
“One should note the pose of the Father: He holds in his hands the crossbar of the Crucifix, not indeed, in a gesture of holding up the Cross, but rather , in the gesture of offering it, or perhaps better proffering it to the viewer. This image finds its origin in the Gospel of John, the third chapter, at verses 13-17 in the passage where Nicodemus visits Jesus by night.”
It goes on a little more, but this is exactly what we believe, and according to this paper handed out in the Catholic Church yesterday you believe it too. God looks just like us and his son is Jesus(a separate person) and the Holy Ghost is the messenger and the bond between God and Jesus and between God, Jesus and us.
As you can see from this writing from your own church, you do believe God is in the form of a man. The form described in your church writings is identical to the form of God the Father and Jesus Christ that Joseph Smith described in his first vision, as a uneducated boy of 14 years old. They are one and the same and according to this writing you believe in the same God that we do, and He looks like a man.
 
Yesterday in the Catholic church I attend with my husband, a woman was there and who had attended a special meeting called a Synod. At that meeting she was given enough of a special crucifix which was blessed by the Pope, to hand one out to every member at mass. It was the image of the Father(God)the son(Jesus) and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove. All three separate and identified as such.
Here is the written paper that was given with the cruicifix.
“The images come from a fresco in Italy, entitled The Trinity, it was executed by a painter named Masacio in 1425. In the painting God the Father offers to the viewer, his crucified Son, to whom he is united by the bond of Love who is the Holy Spirit.
All these images are deeply rooted in the Holy Scriptures. God the Father is depicted as a man of mature age, bearded and solemn. This image is based on the prophecy in the book of Daniel, chapter 7, at verses 9-10, 13-14. The prophet beholds a portentous figure coming to the judgement seat, whom it characterizes as the “Ancient of Days”
“As I watched:
Thrones were set in place and one of great age took his seat.
His robe was white as snow and the hair of his head was pure as wool. His throne was ablaze of flames…A stream of fire poured out, issuing from his presence. A thousand, thousand waited on him, ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The prophecy goes on the describe how there approachs the “Ancient of Days” one who is to receive power and sovereignty that will never pass away. That one is Jesus Christ: I gazed into the visions of the night. And I saw, coming on the clouds of heaven one like a son of man. He came to the one of great age…
On him was conferred sovereignty, glory, and kingship, and men of all peoples, nations and languages became his servants.
His sovereignty is an eternal sovereignty which shall never pass away nor will his empire ever be destroyed.”
The second person of the Blessed Trinity is depicted on the Cruicifix at the moment of handing over his spirit. His body is still powerfully vibrant. This image is rooted in the Gospel of John, the tenth chapter at verses 17-18, where Jesus declares:
The Father loves me, because I lay down my life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from me; I lay it down of my own free will and as it is in my power to take it up again; and this is the cammand I have been given by my Father”.
“One should note the pose of the Father: He holds in his hands the crossbar of the Crucifix, not indeed, in a gesture of holding up the Cross, but rather , in the gesture of offering it, or perhaps better proffering it to the viewer. This image finds its origin in the Gospel of John, the third chapter, at verses 13-17 in the passage where Nicodemus visits Jesus by night.”
It goes on a little more, but this is exactly what we believe, and according to this paper handed out in the Catholic Church yesterday you believe it too. God looks just like us and his son is Jesus(a separate person) and the Holy Ghost is the messenger and the bond between God and Jesus and between God, Jesus and us.
As you can see from this writing from your own church, you do believe God is in the form of a man. The form described in your church writings is identical to the form of God the Father and Jesus Christ that Joseph Smith described in his first vision, as a uneducated boy of 14 years old. They are one and the same and according to this writing you believe in the same God that we do, and He looks like a man.
 
One more thing, it is FLESH and BONE. There is no need for blood in heaven, as the body has gone through a transformation from earth to heaven. As Jesus body was reunited with his soul before he ascended into heaven our bodies are reunited with the soul for the entrance into heaven at Resurrection day.
 
BJ Colbert:
One more thing, it is FLESH and BONE. There is no need for blood in heaven, as the body has gone through a transformation from earth to heaven. As Jesus body was reunited with his soul before he ascended into heaven our bodies are reunited with the soul for the entrance into heaven at Resurrection day.
Click to expand...
If one doesn’t need blood in heaven, why would they need flesh or bones?
 
B.J. Colbert wrote,"Yesterday in the Catholic church I attend with my husband, a woman was there and who had attended a special meeting called a Synod. At that meeting she was given enough of a special crucifix which was blessed by the Pope, to hand one out to every member at mass. It was the image of the Father(God)the son(Jesus) and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove. All three separate and identified as such.
Here is the written paper that was given with the cruicifix.
“The images come from a fresco in Italy, entitled The Trinity, it was executed by a painter named Masacio in 1425.”

** B.J., you are a member of the LDS Church aren’t you, your profile said you were. What in the world are you doing attending a Catholic meeting. You didn’t say you were attending a Mass, so I assume you were attending a meeting because it would be very unusual for some woman who attended a special meeting to be given a place in a Mass!

You used the word Synod. The Catholic Encylopedia (newadvent.org/cathen/14388a.htm) describes two kinds of “Synods”. One is a gathering of the world’s Bishops in Rome with the Hoy Father, the other is a metting of a local Bishop with Priests of his Diocese. Quote, “a woman” would not be part of a Synod.

Futhermore, the fresco by a painter Masacio in 1425 was a fresco. How do painters paint “heavenly” subjects - they paint from their their imagination.Do you think that in the great Cathedral of St. Peter’s that the paintings by the great artist Michael Angelo depict the actual faces of God, angels and prophets. If you do, then you give Michael Angelo greater powers than any other man on earth. It is Biblical that no man has seen the face of God!

To try to inject a story that some woman went to a meeting and brought back images that portray what God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit look like is not only childish…it is another attempt to make the Catholic Church look bad.

Don’t you think that if that fresco was the real thing, it would have been sent around the world long before this? Sorry, but no matter what the man from New York said,** your story doesnt hold up to to a rational analysis**!:nope:
 
You missed one type of Synod. Here in California, in the Sacramento diocese, the Bishop just recently called a diocesean (sp?) Synod that included both religious and lay people. Each church in the diocese sent 1-2 representatives to the Synod including women.
 
BJ Colbert:
Yesterday in the Catholic church I attend with my husband, a woman was there and who had attended a special meeting called a Synod. At that meeting she was given enough of a special crucifix which was blessed by the Pope, to hand one out to every member at mass. It was the image of the Father(God)the son(Jesus) and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove. All three separate and identified as such.
Here is the written paper that was given with the cruicifix.
"The images come from a fresco in Italy, entitled The Trinity, it was executed by a painter named Masacio in 1425. In the painting God the Father offers to the viewer, his crucified Son, to whom he is united by the bond of Love who is the Holy Spirit.
All these images are deeply rooted in the Holy Scriptures. God the Father is depicted as a man of mature age, bearded and solemn. This image is based on the prophecy in the book of Daniel, chapter 7, at verses 9-10, 13-14. The prophet beholds a portentous figure coming to the judgement seat, whom it characterizes as the “Ancient of Days”
“As I watched:
Thrones were set in place and one of great age took his seat.
His robe was white as snow and the hair of his head was pure as wool. His throne was ablaze of flames…A stream of fire poured out, issuing from his presence. A thousand, thousand waited on him, ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.
The prophecy goes on the describe how there approachs the “Ancient of Days” one who is to receive power and sovereignty that will never pass away. That one is Jesus Christ: I gazed into the visions of the night. And I saw, coming on the clouds of heaven one like a son of man. He came to the one of great age…
On him was conferred sovereignty, glory, and kingship, and men of all peoples, nations and languages became his servants.
His sovereignty is an eternal sovereignty which shall never pass away nor will his empire ever be destroyed.”
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No offense, but if you are going to use scripture to describe the physicality of God the father, then you better include all the other references. God is referenced as SEVERAL different things, only one of which is a man. In fact, God is specifically called “a consuming fire”, yet I find no religion that prays to flames because that’s what the Bible says God is. Explaining God in all of these is a form of anthropomorphism. “the attributing of human shape or characteristics to a god, animal, or inanimate thing.” (emphasis added) The Jewish people gave God human characteristics to make it easier to understand and relate to Him.
 
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tkdnick:
No offense, but if you are going to use scripture to describe the physicality of God the father, then you better include all the other references. God is referenced as SEVERAL different things, only one of which is a man. In fact, God is specifically called “a consuming fire”, yet I find no religion that prays to flames because that’s what the Bible says God is. Explaining God in all of these is a form of anthropomorphism. “the attributing of human shape or characteristics to a god, animal, or inanimate thing.” (emphasis added) The Jewish people gave God human characteristics to make it easier to understand and relate to Him.
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Not to mention the many times the bible describes God as having wings. Just one of many examples:

Psalms 36:7
How precious is Your lovingkindness, O God!
And the children of men take refuge in the shadow of Your wings.

Gosh, BJ that proves without a doubt that God is a bird. 😃
Paul
 
BJ Colbert:
One more thing, it is FLESH and BONE. There is no need for blood in heaven, as the body has gone through a transformation from earth to heaven. As Jesus body was reunited with his soul before he ascended into heaven our bodies are reunited with the soul for the entrance into heaven at Resurrection day.
Click to expand...
You should tell that to leschornmom. She is LDS and had never heard this teaching, though it is widely known. She also said I was lying when I pointed it out in the third post from the top in this thread.

Paul
 
Well, that just goes to show how many different versions can come from Catholics also. This was a woman and she attended a Synod, we are in the Sacramento Diocese with Bishop Wiegland, and I attend Mass with my husband who is Catholic. I am LDS.
The Crucifix they handed out yesterday in Mass was specially blessed by the Pope and it says on the back of the Crucifix…
Code: 
                     May 2004
                   AD LIMINA
                     P.P. John Paul II
I did not make this up, I wrote verbatim what was handed out on the paper they gave with the Crucifix. I did not quote the scripture the Catholic Church did and I only copied word for word what they wrote and handed out to take home with us.
As for the form of God, it is clear from this paper and the Crucifix that you all believe in the same God and His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit that we do. Some of you understand it differently. But, according to the paper I quoted from your church some understand it the same. My husband has been a staunch Catholic since he was 6 years old and sent to a Catholic Orphanage and he says it is the same God that he and I pray to together every day. He has been attending the LDS church on occasions for 6 years. I think he would know if it were not the same God.
Why don’t you pray and ask God if He is the same God for all.
If you really want to know and have faith He will answer your prayers.
 
BJ Colbert:
.
As for the form of God, it is clear from this paper and the Crucifix that you all believe in the same God and His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit that we do. Some of you understand it differently. But, according to the paper I quoted from your church some understand it the same.
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No BJ, we do not beleive in the same God as mormons do. Just to start out we believe in only one God, not the many “gods” that mormons believe to exist, even if they worship only one of them. We believe that God has always been God, and did not start out as a human being who “eternally progressed” his way to being God. We belive that God is eternal and unchanging, unlike the mormon “god” who is always changing and “progressing”. We believe that God is spirit and does not have a body of flesh and bone.

We believe in the real Jesus Christ, who was eternally begotten of the Father in heaven, has always been God and did not “progress” his way to being A (one “god” of many)God. Our Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, not one of many children of God including ourselves as Jesus’ brothers and sisters, and including Satan as Jesus’ brother. We believe that Jesus attoned for our sins on the cross of Calvary, while mormons beleive that Jesus attoned for our sins in the garden of Gethsemene.

As for the Holy Spirit (whom mormons call a “ghost”), we beleive him to be one part of the Holy Trinity,. not a seperate “god” who is a “personage of spirit”.

And the biggest difference is that mormons beleive in the “godhead” that is composed of (at least) three seperate “gods”. Catholics beleive in one God who is a Trinity.

Those are some huge differences.
 
BJ Colbert:
“The images come from a fresco in Italy, entitled The Trinity, it was executed by a painter named Masacio in 1425. In the painting God the Father offers to the viewer, his crucified Son, to whom he is united by the bond of Love who is the Holy Spirit.
All these images are deeply rooted in the Holy Scriptures. God the Father is depicted as a man of mature age, bearded and solemn. This image is based on the prophecy in the book of Daniel, chapter 7, at verses 9-10, 13-14…This image finds its origin in the Gospel of John, the third chapter, at verses 13-17 in the passage where Nicodemus visits Jesus by night.”
It goes on a little more, but this is exactly what we believe, and according to this paper handed out in the Catholic Church yesterday you believe it too. God looks just like us and his son is Jesus(a separate person) and the Holy Ghost is the messenger and the bond between God and Jesus and between God, Jesus and us.
As you can see from this writing from your own church, you do believe God is in the form of a man. The form described in your church writings is identical to the form of God the Father and Jesus Christ that Joseph Smith described in his first vision, as a uneducated boy of 14 years old. They are one and the same and according to this writing you believe in the same God that we do, and He looks like a man.
Click to expand...
BJ, I can appreciate what you are trying to do here, but it’s very important that you understand the difference between the piece of paper you have and official church teaching. The piece of paper you have is a description of a work of art, not an official church document describing the trinity. The Catholic Church has used art over the centuries to inspire, to teach, and to take that which is indescribable and give it a form that helps us understand. A piece of paper describing that art is not a literal description of church teaching. The church does not teach that God has a body, even though a piece of art depicts Him that way. Look at the dove representing the Holy Spirit. The church does not believe that the Holy Spirit is actually a dove. It uses this image because the dove appears in scripture as an image of the Holy Spirit. God is depicted in scripture in many different images, as described in the other posts. We cannot pick one and say, “See–here is what God actually looks like.”

The Mormon Church doesn’t believe God has a body because of the bible. We’ve already shown that the bible depicts God the Father with many different images. The Mormon Chruch believes God has a body because Joseph Smith claimed to see both God the Father and Jesus in his “first vision” as two separate glorified men. Interestingly enough, I understand that earlier versions of Smith’s first vision do not include the two separate beings, which was added later. I believe this can be verified through documentation. Correct me if I’m wrong.
 
Boppysbud,
You are so wrong, you are talking about something you know nothing about, obviously. We do believe Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sins. We believe he suffered also in Gethsemene, to the point that he bled from every pore. I think that you are part of a few Catholics who hate LDS people, and use things that you have heard from anti-Mormons to twist things the way you want them to appear. I have always been taught to respect other religions and in our city the LDS church works hand in hand with the Catholic Church on many projects. I have many Catholic friends as well as my husband and they would be surprised and offended to hear such things from other Catholics. The Catholic Community Services of Utah on October 5,2004 awarded its premiere Distinguished Humanitarian Award on the leader of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I quote from the Deseret News,
October 6, 2004. “President Gordon B. Hinckley was praised for his selfless service and work to facilitate help for those in need, both in the community and across the globe.” We realize that we could not meet the needs of so many people without the assistance of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and for that we are most grateful," said Pamela Atkinson, chairwoman fo Catholic Community Services Annual Community Service Awards Dinner. “You epitomize the teachings of Jesus Christ, and we thank you for your service.” Bishop George Niederauer presented the award.
I am glad that the leaders of your church do not think as you do and that they recognize us as Christians in the true sense of the word. You definitely do not understand how Christians are supposed to act, and I am sorry for you. You do not believe what I said about the cruicifix that my husband got at Mass yesterday. Why would I lie about that? I do not care if you do not believe what your own leaders say. You are stuck on something about planets etc. and many gods we worship and on and on about nonsense. Whatever you are talking about is out of context. You have gone to the extreme over the edge of ridiculous. You are all grasping at anything to degrade and disrespect my religion and I would never as a Christian show anything but respect to you and The Catholic Church. It is what my husband believes with all his heart and I love him and respect his belief. He knows that I believe in the same God as he does, and that is all that counts. We worship together and study the Bible together.
 
Chris-wa,
You are the only resonable voice among your Catholic friends, and I appreciate that. I have never heard any other story but the one that Joseph told about seeing the Father and the Son. I am 62 and was born in the LDS church. As I said before, Genisis says that man is created in God’s image, and I believe that God would not mislead us. Why would He say that if it were not true? I guess it all boils down to the fact that I believe in God and Jesus Christ and in the Holy Spirit, but you all do not believe that I believe, so there is no way I can tell you anymore.
Go on believing that I am not a Christian, if that is what you want to believe.
 
BJ Colbert:
I am glad that the leaders of your church do not think as you do and that they recognize us as Christians in the true sense of the word.
Click to expand...
Wrong, BJ. The Catholic Church does not recognize the LDS baptism as valid precisely because the Mormon god is not the Christian God and the Mormon Jesus is not the Christian Jesus. See catholic.com/library/lor_010801a.asp for the full details.

You really need to educate yourself, BJ. You’re living in a dream world.
Paul
 
BJ, sir,

Art, including that which is written, uses symbols to help our minds wrap around more complex truths God Himself frequently uses these symbols. For example, the parables of Jesus. If I write a story about a snake riding a go-cart, no matter how well I write it, the snake and the go-cart have NO PHYSICAL reality. They can, however, point to a greater truth IF that is the intention of the author.

No Catholic looks at the passages you point out and disagrees with them. No one here, no one ever throughout the entire history of our faith. YET neither we nor our Jewish brothers nor even our Muslim brothers would do to God the type of violence Mormon theology does by trying “finite-tize” the Infinite. We recognize that God can become man, and even bread and wine but in the process, he forfeits NONE of His infinite glory, His omnipresence, or His reign over every atom in creation.

By containing Him into a physical form, you beg the question, where did He get that physical form? The Mormon god has a birthday – he was begotten of a previous god. Therefore, he cannot be God in our traditional sense because He is not the sole Cause AND Effect for ALL THAT IS. (click on my button and see some of my past posts on this, if you like).

However, Jews and Muslims also refute the idea of the Christian Trinity (God as three persons but one substance) because they believe God cannot be both three AND one. Mormons stand with them in this regards, taking this heretical misrepresentation of the Trinity (God as three but not one) as their own.

Only Catholic theology adequately PROTECTS both the validity of God as one while EXPOUNDING on the nature of the three persons.

You claim to have uncovered incongruousness in both our theology and the responses you have received on this thread. I beg of you to specifically outline EXACTLY what those conflicting points are, because I see only unity in my Catholic brothers and sisters.

Also, I cannot believe you would try to use representations of the Trinity thinking they were somehow a silver bullet against our concept of God as one. Couldn’t you be more creative than to come up with an argument our Church adequately dispensed with before the English language was born? :tsktsk: :nope:

What next? Are you going to tell us that we believe shamrocks are God because of St. Patrick?
 
Where to begin BJ. I am a former Mormon for several years. I was ordained in the Aaronic Priesthood, Home taught, and was a sunday school teacher, and I know exactly what I am talking about. Yes some mormons give lip service to the cross, but vastly emphasise the garden of Gethsemene at the exspense of the cross. Have you ever seen a cross in or on a mormon chapel or temple? And one thing I forgot to mention is that mormons redefine the word “attone” to mean that people will be ressurected, and define what everyone else terms attone to mean exhalted to be a “god” by obeying the mormon commandments.

You make think it makes no difference how many Gods people believe to exist, but it makes a huge difference as to whether they are Christians or members of a non-Christian cult that uses some of the same words as Christianity such as God and Jesus Christ, but redefines them. And mormons redefine everything from Christianity, the Christian Trinity of one God in three persons into a “godhead” of three seperate “gods”, to the nature of God the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit (not ghost).

You say that the mormon “god” is the same as the Christian God, and the mormon “jesus” is the same as the Christian Jesus.

Nothing could be further from the truth. I suppose I could put things a little more diplomatically, like calling Mormons Latter Day “Saints”, but I prefer the truth to diplomacy.
 
AND btw BJ, Catholics also share in humanitarian/chartible efforts with Jews.

Does that make those Jewish people “christians” as well? Does that mean that the Jewish people beleive in the same Jesus Christ as we Christians do?
 
Not to state the obvious… but here’s the obvious:

catholic.com/library/noncatholic_groups.asp

Distinctive Beliefs of the Mormon Church
catholic.com/library/Distinctive_Beliefs_of_Mormon.asp

The Gods of the Mormon Church
catholic.com/library/Gods_of_the_Mormon_Church.asp

Mormon Stumpers
catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp

Mormonism’s Baptism for the Dead
catholic.com/library/Mormonism_Baptism_for_the_Dead.asp

Problems with the Book of Mormon
catholic.com/library/Problems_with_the_Book_of_Mormon.asp

By the way, I have a male friend who made it up to the 5th ring or so of the LDS heierarchy before he converted to Roman Catholic. He advises me that the missionaries who ride their bikes, 2 by 2, around town are NOT told the more intricate matters of the LDS church’s belief system until they are pretty well entrenched in LDS as their entire lifestyle.

He also advised me to NOT pull out the LDS platform from under their feet unless there’s a truly Christian platform there for them to rely upon. Otherwise, former LDS folks are in serious danger of winding up totally atheist.
 
I think you are all really sad examples of Christianity. That you have nothing more to do than criticize and try to destroy someone else’s beliefs. You should instead be studying the scriptures for your own faith and not picking parts of anothe faith to make yourselves feel fuzzy. In one of the posts here one of you accused the Mormons of believing in abortion and birth control if they prayed about it and felt a fuzzy feeling. WRONG! That just shows how rediculous this whole discussion is. I was at a Catholic wedding Saturday of a friend of my daughter, who is 35 years old and has never been married until now. I know for a fact she has had birth control for many years, is this a sin? Apparently not, if you are not married but want to have sex. My husband was married to his first wife in the Catholic Mass, they divorced 25 years ago and he married a Muslim, who died of Cancer. The Church said he could not go to communion or heaven because of the divorce. But, after 3 years of denying him these things, they suddenly turned around and after some monetary payment and a special lawyer for the Catholic church, decided he was restored with full rights in the church. Now, are the rules changeable depending how much money you can pay to be forgiven. Five different priests told him 5 different things, and two of the priest with differing views were in his own Parish. One said don’t go to confession with the other priest because he is too strict and not up to date on the latest believes.
How do you explain that? You think Mormons are confused, I lived through this confusion and believe me it was a nightmare. My husband was so depressed, and was really questioning the Catholic Church for those 3 years, it was pure hell for him.
 
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