God in timelss state cannot know what is the current time

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Bahman said:
Exactly, time doesn’t exist and it cannot be created. The concept of time is already defined. I don’t understand how people could use the concept of in and out of time!?
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the concept of in and out of time is a convention, an expression for something else. If “time” is simply a human measurement for a rate of change. Then the expression ‘outside of time’ would just mean ‘outside of change’, or ‘outside of the human concept of change’, or some such. And as a Spirit, God is not subject to the ‘rate of change of material things’. The Spirit does not change its substance or its position. So it has no ‘human time’ or rather, it has nothing to measure regarding change, from a humans perspective down here in the changing material world.
 
Bahman, you are certainly entitled to your own opinion, but it might be helpful for you to rethink yours as God Himself has revealed that He is outside of time and actually revealed that He holds all in existence at all times, wherever that may be. Good Luck on your journey to Truth!
 
Bahman said:
Gods logic is of course beyond our logic but it cannot be against our logic since a supper-logic hold sub-logic as a base otherwise nothing could be deduced. There are two simple facts used to show that God cannot perform any action on creation: first God is in state of timeless, second creation is in state of time, so as a result these two entities are casually isolated from each other because of interface problem.
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The fact that God is not subject to time is not the same as saying that God is cut off from it. I live outside water (in a way, I am not subject to water), but that doesn’t mean I can’t jump in when I want.

There is no “interface problem.” Just because God does not experience events sequentially (the way we do) does not mean that God cannot experience any events. God is always experiencing all of the states of the universe–from what we would call the beginning to what we would call the end. God experiences all of these states in a way we cannot fully understand of course, but the closest analogy to our experience would be to say that God experiences all times as “now.”

If you look out the window of an airplane you can see (if you’re low enough) the land all around. Someone who is on the ground has to experience, for example, 5 miles of road by walking down it as a sequence. From the airplane, you are experiencing the whole landscape “now.” It’s hard describing four-dimensional concepts in three dimensions, but that’s the best I can do.

–Jen
 
If God is in a timeless peaceful state as you describe Bahman, how was the universe brought forth, for even at the most primordial moment, God would have had to look upon “time”
 
God transcends time. Certainly as the Creator of the Space-Time continuum, he is beyond his creation.
He is immanent and transfuses time as Holy Spirit
And he is also incarnate and has featured prominently in historic time.

As his miracles in the Exodus show, he is precisely aware of time. For sure he knows exactly what time it is.
 
catholictiger said:
science isn’t philosophy I know you aren’t responding to me but philosophically I don’t see how it is possible for time to exist in reality. I think there is a way you can explain the phenomena of time without saying time exists but I don’t know science well enough to do this.
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In physics time always appear as imagery component of space-time continuum which means that it is not a real entity such a space.
 
catholictiger said:
but God doesn’t change he is the same for all eternity so I don’t see the issue of saying that God is in an unchanging timeless state (if time exists)
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Time does not exist, creation in all its form is subject to change (which mean we can define time as rate of changes), and God is in state of absolute peace. There is no requirement to assume that time exist to have a perfect picture.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Is this a philosophical assertion or a scientific one?

Science does not deal with “creation” as I understand it, in terms of a “creator”. But there are certainly those physicists who opine that “time” is simply a property of the universe as a whole, and had a beginning.
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It is philological and scientific assertion. Science is dealing with creation as much as philosophy does and creation is as ambiguous as to science as it is to philosophy.

Time in physics appear as an imaginary quality which means it is not real quality and solely represent changes in beings.
 
Jon_S said:
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Bahman:
Whether God could experience all actualities at once is subject of discussion that we can discuss it further if you wish. But the main focus of this thread is that God cannot possibly know the current state of creation. Being in state of timeless also means that God is causally is separated from creation so it could not act on creation.
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This is a false premise.
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Why it is false? Which premise is false?

God cannot know what is casually separated from creation:
  1. Creation is subject of change
  2. God is in state of timeless so it is not subject of change
  3. two entity that one is subject of change and other is not cannot be fused to each other, so called interface problem
  4. God is casually separated from creation
God cannot know what is the current time:
  1. God is causally separated from creation because of previous argument
  2. Knowledge of current time requires experience of the current creation
  3. God cannot experience creation since it is casually separated from creation
  4. God cannot know what is the current time
 
JerryZ said:
This is not theory, it has been demonstrated via repetible experiments that yelded the expected results within the predicted values.

–
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What is predicted in theory should match what is observed in experiment otherwise that theory is false.
 
lakotak said:
If God could not know the current state of creation from the eternal now, timelessness, then how is it possible that we exist here on earth. God is the giver of life and every second of our existence is dependent upon him. If he could not interact with us in our time from his timelessness, then why do we exits, how are we alive here in time?
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God perform an absolute just and absolute perfect job so called creation, so creation does not need further intervention from God until it meets God. Those who believe in God intervention in all sorts knowing that God and creation is absolutely perfect are insulting God and creation.
 
Bahman said:
God perform an absolute just and absolute perfect job so called creation, so creation does not need further intervention from God until it meets God. Those who believe in God intervention in all sorts knowing that God and creation is absolutely perfect are insulting God and creation.
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How do you know creation is “an absolute just and absolute perfect job”? :confused:
 
catholictiger said:
I understand but that is my answer to the question and helps I think explain why he can know the current state of creation.

If God experiences all actualities at once he experiences the current state of creation and all other states of creation.
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God could only experience all actualities assuming they could exist at the moment of creation. God is casually separated from creation since after any other action cannot be performed from God (creating another universe or intervening in our universe) since the second action defined a direction (second action is followed by first one) which is not allowed from timeless state of being.

Also please read post #90 for further explanation.
 
Jon_S said:
If God is in a timeless peaceful state as you describe Bahman, how was the universe brought forth, for even at the most primordial moment, God would have had to look upon “time”
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God in state of timeless and could only perform one action, since sequential actions define a direction and so a time which is not allowed in timeless state of being. Creation is sole action from God which is done in absolute perfect way so it does not need further intervention.
 
tonyrey said:
How do you know creation is “an absolute just and absolute perfect job”? :confused:
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Because of three strong facts (that we can discuss each if you wish):
  1. God is absolutely perfect and just
  2. God can only perform one action, so called creation and no further intervention is allowed
  3. A creation which is not absolutely perfect and just can not evolve and sustain itself so it would eventually collapse
 
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