God in timelss state cannot know what is the current time

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JerryZ said:
Well, time being a “component” of the Universe would also freeze 😉
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So you first accept that things exist even when they are freezed, what freezes is changes and so time. In fact from a photon point of view everything is freezed. So there are two option available here: that is time that cause changes or natural forces? Moreover, time is a part of space-time continuum which is not constant which means that it cannot be considered a intrinsic entity.
 
Timeless state is the state that no change can occur in it. Each action is a change so performing any action requires exiting the state of timeless or staying in state and being dead since God cannot even experience itself since that is one action. So first God can only perform one action in timeless state which is creation and after that cannot be in state of timeless or otherwise is dead.
 
We can speak of time or timelessness but what is that to God. Do we know the nature and reality of God?

a prayer I wrote one time with this in mind:

Meditation on eternity

Eternal God, we cannot view existence in concepts other than in time or its cessation. The prospect of eternity seems always mysterious, sometimes unreal and occasionally alienating—unless we base our contemplation of eternal happiness in childlike trust alone.

Please strengthen our faith, for we may confuse our inability to comprehend Your realities, as absence of the realities themselves. Then, embroiled in the occupations and joys of our lives, or discouraged in life’s disappointments and losses, we may come to trust only in temporal reality.

When we live only in the present reality, we cannot believe in our Creator as loving Parent, as Redeemer, or as guiding Spirit, with intimate relevance to our individual lives. Yet it appears even to the goldfish in his bowl, that his observation and response to his environment and experience is absolute. Clearly, he also is mistaken.

In abandoning faith, we betray our souls that long for union in Your love. We lose true joy, love and liberty in faith—receiving a stone, a scorpion, a snake, instead of living Bread and Water. Give us faith to penetrate confusion that envelops even some dedicated souls. Only Your gentle, loving mercy can make us the little children of Your Kingdom that Jesus knows we must be.

Our God, the wonder and beauty of Your Creation, from the universe itself to some exquisitely simple life form, may lead the astonished mind to You, yet also away. Our perceptions are fallible and subjective even in the summit of scientific and poetic response, and may be guided by whim, personality, or circumstance. Let us cherish Your works and cease to abuse them at a physical, technological, or spiritual level. Let them serve to give us appropriate recreation and wholeness as individuals who are both body and spirit.

God, we do not want to remain separate from You. Please fortify our faith so that trials become impetus for our growth. You love and educate us tenderly and patiently, however wounded, disobedient and impatient we are. Even chosen souls may dilute Your truths or limit Your offered gifts of service. Please grant healing and endurance so we may share the richness of Your love with many others.

Yours are the thoughts and ways of almighty God who creates in slow evolution. Your Spirit’s action is often indiscernible in our lives and in the lives of others. You nevertheless use each moment of effort and peace, of faltering and repentance, together with each act of mercy and faith, to mold each willing soul to Your intended image of it. We place our whole existence, with our sinfulness and failures, our gifts and achievements, into Your care.

If we drift from Your ways, however deep our error, please restore us quickly through Your indwelling Spirit, with the teachings of Jesus, His merciful forgiveness, and the encouragement of others. Preserve us from rejecting You through unbalanced devotion or attachment. Grant us genuine prayer and conversion despite temptations that assail us.
God, please give us faith to accept mysteries beyond human experience and reason.

Give us hope that endures beyond repeated crises and losses, and love that continues to live in a broken heart. Let us experience Your love for us, and grant others to find Your loving-kindness in us. Silence our distractions and anxieties. Overcome in us the tyrannies of sin, temptation and addiction. Lead us into the way and truth of Your divine Son, who took upon Himself our nature and raised it to Your life that we may become Your children beside Him.

Please fill us with overwhelming desire for Your loving will. We trust and hope in the promise of Your Son—that those who hunger for Your life will be filled. By His promise, we know that the Spirit will transform us, preparing us for the communion of Saints and Angels in fulfillment of Your will. Eternal God, grant us to respond fully to Your will, in the name and Spirit of Your Son.

“The actions of every creature are before Him, there is no hiding from His eyes; His gaze stretches from eternity to eternity, and nothing can astonish Him. You must not say, ‘What is this? Why is that?’ All things have been created for their proper functions.” [Ecclesiasticus 39:19-26]
 
A semi-related prayer written in that period of my life

Mystery of Redemption

Holy God, we do not grasp how awesome and incomprehensible are Your truths. We mistake our conceptions regarding You as the essence of the reality that they fail to encapsulate. Human Reason cannot make sense of God becoming subject to obedience, humility, selflessness and suffering, in love for His creatures! Thus, while we seek You, we are required to trust as little children.

We can only suspect a flicker of the magnitude of this God through His Creation of a stunningly vast universe containing massive expanding galaxies in an immensity of space. Yet, God of such greatness, You also create the fragile intricacy of tiny insects and the worlds of microscopic lifeforms in their intrinsic perfection! Holy God, open our minds and hearts to the supreme greatness and the sublime mystery of Your works!

From our tiny planet, so important to us but insignificant amongst the countless orbits of the universe, we dare to say ‘our God’ and ‘our Father’ in contemplating the Creator of all these marvels and capable of unknown wonders inconceivable to us. Perhaps the greatest wonder, however, is the love and mercy You show to Your human creatures on this planet, Earth!

All things are held in being in continuous creation within You. Yet, to our knowledge, only human creatures dare to sin. You require of us a life of charity and justice, of prayer and self-denial, of trust and faithfulness during our earthly existence—in promise of everlasting union with the everlasting I AM WHO AM, which is Yourself. Slow to trust, we are reluctant to accept sacred Your dream and plan for us as individuals and as community. The choice to reject or accept is ours.

The Angels, whom You created before us, also faced a choice to love and honour God or to serve themselves. Two-thirds obeyed God and now dwell with You in glory and delight. To the rebellious remainder, punishment was swift. Doubtless, You gave these glorious creatures generous opportunity to fulfil their radiant destiny!

Perhaps other life forms will, or have, faced such choices, for ‘there are many rooms’ in Your heavenly kingdom. If hidden amongst the planets in the myriad galaxies of Your immense Creation, You should choose to form creatures other than the Angels and humanity, I pray that they will serve You better, and that where they fail, Your mercy will be deep and embracing.

Yet many people habitually accept Your revelations and promises with spasmodic attention or with vague complacency. Before so great a God, the purest human zeal and the highest knowledge and goodness are as nothing. How intense should be our gratitude before the wonder of our relation to You. How great our repentance should be before the arrogance of neglecting our Creator’s laws and astonishing mercy! Holy God please lead us through awareness, repentance and rebirth into continuing spontaneity of response to Your creative love!

So that we in our unworthiness may be saved and made whole, through Your mercy the seeming-impossible occurs. The eternal Son of God enters the limitations of created time and matter. He assumes fully our humanity, while also retaining His infinite divinity. With His humble, obedient life as human being, He bridges the immeasurably vast difference between God and creature for all humankind!

In our disobedience and ingratitude, our God, You have not destroyed us, but have become for us—a defenseless infant…a humble labourer…a man murdered by Your chosen people. You have become for all time, food to be assimilated into the functions of the human body and soul of mere creatures, devout and lukewarm alike. You have become bread to be tabernacled in centuries of neglect before multitudes of unbelievers and of apathetic followers…cherished only by Your true friends. Yet even these have not lived without offence against You, excepting one pure woman, chosen as Mother—for the Son did not enter our nature in resplendence as a magnificent adult. Rather, the Father humbly, through an Angel, sought permission of the sinless young virgin to accept Him as a helpless embryo!

What is this humility, this faith, this patience, this obedience, this compassion that You show us, infinite God! We are proud, stubborn, untrusting and wayward, yet Your mercy remains open to endless human insult, for within time it is always subject to our personal acceptance or rejection. Repeatedly, You reiterate Your love and mercy in our hearts and through other persons. You reiterate them through Scripture and ministry of the Church, source of grace, sacrament and wisdom established by the Son to fulfil His promise to remain always with us.

Our God, who are You who so loves His ungrateful, ignorant, unworthy creatures! Behold the humility of eternal, infinite God, to love and desire us who are enmeshed in egoism that alienates us from each other and You! We begin to suspect the smallness of our vision, the confusion of our understanding, and the flawed nature of our enthroned Reason, with its inability to cope with these unfathomable, paradoxical truths.

etc
 
continued…

Should we, in contemplating such things, wonder at human suffering! We begin to appreciate Jesus’ warning that unless one becomes as a little child one cannot enter God. We also begin to understand some of the causes of difficulties within our human condition, of the conflicts and miseries of our world, and of the corruption of our society in social and personal injustice and discord.

We may regret or resent these global difficulties and evils, and our personal sufferings. We seek to evade them and to avoid discipline of our sensuality and materialism that bind us from the Spirit of God in our lives. We cling to our bonds although we are created for the freedom of eternal union with You our almighty Creator, despite the redeeming anguish, love, humility and submission of God incarnate in His forging of our bridge to You.

Yet should we not welcome that where You permit, we are tested in faith, labour and suffering to loosen excessive attachment to our limited mortal existence! Our need of You is often diverted into search for material satisfaction that increases our frustration and confirms our failure to love others and You truly.

When we choose against God, we curtail the working of Your grace in our lives. This choice draws disaster upon us in the form of injustice, intolerance, loneliness, immorality and war. If we then resent and blame You, we mock ourselves, because You owe us nothing, but offer all. Should it surprise us that sin brings retribution? Should we wonder why we endure natural disasters, when we betray the Creator of all things?

We are often aggrieved at the suffering of innocents, but answer lies in the racked body of the sinless Saviour. Jesus hangs dying in grief and pain to expiate the offences of all human persons for our eternal salvation. Through Jesus, lead us into childlike faith and cheerful daily acceptance of our vocations with their satisfactions and their difficulties.
Give us the spirit of the child whom You wish each to be as we say, “Here I am. Your will be done in and through me. Through Your Son, lead me beyond myself, beyond all created things, into Your infinite, loving self, in union with the communion of saints.”

Our God, as the consecrated bread is the infinite Son of God, yet is brittle, mutable wafer, so let me be one in You despite my frailty and unworthiness. Great God, Creator of all things, thank You for Your gifts of creation and existence, and for the mercy that restores Creation and eternal blessedness to Your difficult human creatures.

Have mercy, our God, for our limited understanding, our misconceptions, our pride and our self-doubts, along with the stark realities and sufferings of this world, frequently lead many of us to falter in faith or to abandon it completely.
We believe Lord God. Please increase our faith.

And a basic flaw in your argument, as it happens. God is not ‘timeless’ but not limited by time because God is eternal.

God bless you,

Kind wishes,
Trishie
 
God is not limited by time.
Your supposition doesn’t make it so.

God is not timeless in the sense you speak.
God is greater than time and not limited by time,
not restricted by time as we are in our material existence.
and God is eternal.

That you do not understand God’s being, and interpret Him in very limited terms does not alter the fact that God is far beyond your limited definition of Him, His nature, and of His actions.
We are presumptuous when we limit God by our own weak conceptions. even a fellow creature, a fly, could make presumptions about you and me, with little chance of being right about all that we are, all that we understand, all that we do. his God created universes that we can hardly begin to conceive in their immensity and complexity. God is who God is.

God bless you
 
Any limitation of understanding due to time/gravity is down to man, not God.
 
WOW. This could be extremely deep. I would say that there is no telling what God could do outside of time. I don’t fully comprehend God. What he could do outside of time, in my limited understanding of God, would still be an infinite amount of things that we can’t imagine or comprehend.🤷
 
TARRAT said:
WOW. This could be extremely deep. I would say that there is no telling what God could do outside of time. I don’t fully comprehend God. What he could do outside of time, in my limited understanding of God, would still be an infinite amount of things that we can’t imagine or comprehend.🤷
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There is no concept like being outside of time, since time is the rate at which things change. So you could say that God is without change or it changes. Timeless state in fact represent a state without change.
 
That was an awesome post, Trish.

My response to OP…God Himself is the Creator of time and space.

What God wills, exist.

God freely chose to create and we are freely created with free will.

We can choose to look at life as either half empty or half full. if we look at life hlaf full, we will
Recognize that there is transcedant intelligence and love that permeates creation irregardless of the destructive actions of certain men.
 
Bahman said:
There is no concept like being outside of time, since time is the rate at which things change. So you could say that God is without change or it changes. Timeless state in fact represent a state without change.
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Have you been there? You say “in fact”. Are you absolutely certain?

Peace
 
hazcompat said:
Have you been there? You say “in fact”. Are you absolutely certain?
Peace
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You don’t need to be in state of timeless to understand what does it mean. A little bit of imagination and logical thinking as it was explained in OP is enough for it. Do you have any valid argument against what was said?
 
In no time only God is changeless. Our experience of Him is dynamic in proportion to the capacity you were given at birth and acquired by grace and virtue. There is no duration that you might become tired. The Beatific Vision is the eternal unfolding/ revealing of The Great I Am. The diversity is unutterable. Temporal concepts do not apply, but God willing you will experience Him.

Peace
 
Bahman said:
There is no concept like being outside of time, since time is the rate at which things change. So you could say that God is without change or it changes. Timeless state in fact represent a state without change.
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Life in a timeless place would simply mean that everything is in the present. The past and future are the ever present. It doesn’t mean there can only be one action it means that every action is in the present. If I am in timeless state and I decide to sweep the yard the next day then sweeping the yard is not the future but the present. I can decide to do anything, and as many things as I wish and they will all be in the present.
In a similar way, everywhere you could go in infinity would be the same place. You could go to as many places as you wanted for as long as you want to its just that they would all be the same place because there are no co-ordinates in infinity.
 
In Him we live and move and have our being. Acts 17:28. Time and no time embrace. In the mass, at the epiclesis, Heaven is so close to earth I am amazed the angel from Our Father’s Altar remains unseen. You cannot construct a conceptual no time with the intellect. It is only fragrant to the heart.

P?eace
 
Bahman said:
That means that the act of creation and God existence happened at the same point. There is no concept of time involve since there is only one action. For time you at least needs two events/actions.
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As stated before, you only need one action to describe time.
There is before the act, and there is after the act.

An act, any act, necessitates time.
This alone would seem to bring down your house of cards since we have facts to show otherwise.

The fact of the creation, the fact of the creator, and the fact that it happened in time.
 
Paddy_Walker said:
Life in a timeless place would simply mean that everything is in the present. The past and future are the ever present. It doesn’t mean there can only be one action it means that every action is in the present. If I am in timeless state and I decide to sweep the yard the next day then sweeping the yard is not the future but the present. I can decide to do anything, and as many things as I wish and they will all be in the present.
In a similar way, everywhere you could go in infinity would be the same place. You could go to as many places as you wanted for as long as you want to its just that they would all be the same place because there are no co-ordinates in infinity.
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This is a illogical concept of timeless state since you cannot have past, now and future as a state present since past, now and present define an arrow of time withing the timeless state which is logically wrong unless you accept that past, now and future are distributed randomly so one could distinguish one from another.
 
Bahman said:
This is a illogical concept of timeless state since you cannot have past, now and future as a state present since past, now and present define an arrow of time withing the timeless state which is logically wrong unless you accept that past, now and future are distributed randomly so one could distinguish one from another.
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Having only our senses, our own flawed logic and being stuck within time as we are, I would expect many to believe that what we can perceive as time is the only way to experience it.
 
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