God Loves Homosexuals

[FaithofAbraham]

So you know they feel guilty?

Most gays I know point to verses like that and reject Jesus on that basis, that way they can remained hardened to it and keep their guilt buried. Same way I felt guilty times I got drunk and just drank more to forget the guilt. It’s a cycle of sin.

I do not dispute that there are gay people who have the values you claim they have…those values are shared by the majority of straight people…but those gay I am acquainted with live their Christian faith, whether you believe they do or not.

How they “reconcile” the 5-6 passages in scripture which appear at first glance to condemn gay relaionships is easy enough…“Is the Homosexual My Neighbor” a good book to begin to see their view.

“Fornication” as defined as “sex outside of the benefit of marriage” is easy enough to reconcile…the gay Christians I know were “married after the manner of Friends” under the care of the Meeting of which they belong.

You are just rewriting the Bible to justify their behavior.

1 Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own-] wife/-] husband, and let every woman have her own -]husband/-] wife.

 

[Publisher]

Most gays I know point to verses like that and reject Jesus on that basis, that way they can remained hardened to it and keep their guilt buried. Same way I felt guilty times I got drunk and just drank more to forget the guilt. It’s a cycle of sin.

You are just rewriting the Bible to justify their behavior.

1 Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own-] wife/-] husband, and let every woman have her own -]husband/-] wife.

No I’m not “rewriting” anything…it’s a different understanding of biblical interpretation…one based on reason, historical setting and IMO modern understanding of sexual orientation…if I thought I was wrong, I’d admit is…

Your guilt on your behavior is still being projected upon others…you have no first hand…nor second had knowledge of how “they” feel…it is an assumption on your part…an assumption you make based on your own religious belief…but one not shared by everyone else…you simply do not know if a gay person feels guilty concerning their sexual orientation…that simply is beyond your scope of first hand knowledge.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

No I’m not “rewriting” anything…it’s a different understanding of biblical interpretation…one based on reason, historical setting and IMO modern understanding of sexual orientation…if I thought I was wrong, I’d admit is…

How can you have a different understanding of what is there in black and white? To avoid fornication, men marry women, women marry men. All you are saying here is that Paul was more ignorant than you are because he lived in ancient times and wasn’t as intellectually advanced, so you should disregard what he said and go with your own desires.

Your guilt on your behavior is still being projected upon others…you have no first hand…nor second had knowledge of how “they” feel…it is an assumption on your part…an assumption you make based on your own religious belief…but one not shared by everyone else…you simply do not know if a gay person feels guilty concerning their sexual orientation…that simply is beyond your scope of first hand knowledge.

Of course I know they feel guilty, they have admitted as much. That’s why many of them separate from their families and immerse themselves in the gay lifestyle, so they can hide from it. That’s why they need to flaunt it in parades and such, unlike heterosexuals, to prove to themselves it’s ok when they know deep down it isn’t.

 

[Pete_1]

This might be interesting to read:

Persona Humana

Declaration on Certain Questions Concerning Sexual Ethics
Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith
December 29, 1975

It concerns sexual ethics in general i think, but their are some sections on Homosexuality

This is the link:
newadvent.org/library/docs_df75se.htm

 

[Pete_1]

This is a short extract from section 8

But no pastoral method can be employed which would give moral justification to these acts on the grounds that they would be consonant with the condition of such people. For according to the objective moral order, homosexual relations are acts which lack an essential and indispensable finality. In Sacred Scripture they are condemned as a serious depravity and even presented as the sad consequence of rejecting God.[18] This judgment of Scripture does not of course permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and can in no case be approved of.

This is in the endnotes.

1. Rom 1:24-27 “That is why God left them to their filthy enjoyments and the practices with which they dishonor their own bodies since they have given up Divine truth for a lie and have worshipped and served creatures instead of the Creator, Who is blessed forever. Amen! That is why God has abandoned them to degrading passions; why their women have turned from natural intercourse to unnatural practices and why their menfolk have given up natural intercourse to be consumed with passion for each other, men doing shameless things with men and getting an appropriate reward for their perversion”

 

[Publisher]

How can you have a different understanding of what is there in black and white? To avoid fornication, men marry women, women marry men. All you are saying here is that Paul was more ignorant than you are because he lived in ancient times and wasn’t as intellectually advanced, so you should disregard what he said and go with your own desires.

My desires? So are you now projecting your guilt upon me? I assure you, I feel no guilt for my beliefs or my sexuality. Paul was a man of his times, he held beliefs current with the times…his medical, scientific and psychological education was lacking and very uninformed my modern standards.

Of course I know they feel guilty, they have admitted as much. That’s why many of them separate from their families and immerse themselves in the gay lifestyle, so they can hide from it. That’s why they need to flaunt it in parades and such, unlike heterosexuals, to prove to themselves it’s ok when they know deep down it isn’t.

And the gay men and women I know who do not feel guilty are lying? Or have you interviewed all gay people and come to this consensus of their mutual guilt? I’m sure the gay people of your acquaintence may have guilt…as do you and many striaght people for their behavior…but not everyone shares your projected guilt…your…knowledge in such matters is based upon the gay people you have met…the same as mine…I guess the gay men and women I know have a healthier self image than the men and women you know…but to claim “they” as “all”, is a projection on your part…it is not fact.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

And the gay men and women I know who do not feel guilty are lying?

Not necessarily, people believe a lot of things are ok when they are in denial.

 

[Publisher]

Not necessarily, people believe a lot of things are ok when they are in denial.

Again, I have no first hand knowledge of whether they are in denial or not, and I dare say neither do you. I know it is important to one’s religious understanding to believe that gay people feel guilty…or that those things which we believe are a sin others are in denial over…but I don’t think this is something we can say definitivly.

I accept the “testimony” of gay people I know that they are speaking the truth to me…I accept that they are neither in denial or feel guilty for their sexual orientation and the fact they have partners IF they say they are not in denial nor do they feel guilty…If they say they love their partner of 30+ years, and their lives display such love and affection, I have no reason to delegate their feeliing to “lust” or anything else other than take these people at their word.

Yet I do understand…it’s much easier to believe these people feel guily or they are in denial than to think perhaps our understanding of their situation is wrong…it is very understandable…we do things ot make us warm on cold nights.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

Again, I have no first hand knowledge of whether they are in denial or not, and I dare say neither do you. I know it is important to one’s religious understanding to believe that gay people feel guilty…or that those things which we believe are a sin others are in denial over…but I don’t think this is something we can say definitivly.

I accept the “testimony” of gay people I know that they are speaking the truth to me…I accept that they are neither in denial or feel guilty for their sexual orientation and the fact they have partners IF they say they are not in denial nor do they feel guilty…If they say they love their partner of 30+ years, and their lives display such love and affection, I have no reason to delegate their feeliing to “lust” or anything else other than take these people at their word.

Yet I do understand…it’s much easier to believe these people feel guily or they are in denial than to think perhaps our understanding of their situation is wrong…it is very understandable…we do things ot make us warm on cold nights.

I’m not saying they don’t love, but I’m not convinced it’s ok to take it beyond that, especially according to what Paul says.

 

[Pete_1]

This is a short extract from section 8

But no pastoral method can be employed which would give moral justification to these acts on the grounds that they would be consonant with the condition of such people. For according to the objective moral order, homosexual relations are acts which lack an essential and indispensable finality. In Sacred Scripture they are condemned as a serious depravity and even presented as the sad consequence of rejecting God.[18] This judgment of Scripture does not of course permit us to conclude that all those who suffer from this anomaly are personally responsible for it, but it does attest to the fact that homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered and can in no case be approved of.

This is in the endnotes.

1. Rom 1:24-27 “That is why God left them to their filthy enjoyments and the practices with which they dishonor their own bodies since they have given up Divine truth for a lie and have worshipped and served creatures instead of the Creator, Who is blessed forever. Amen! That is why God has abandoned them to degrading passions; why their women have turned from natural intercourse to unnatural practices and why their menfolk have given up natural intercourse to be consumed with passion for each other, men doing shameless things with men and getting an appropriate reward for their perversion”

Are their any comments on this?

You can get the full text here:

newadvent.org/library/docs_df75se.htm

 

[Publisher]

I’m not saying they don’t love, but I’m not convinced it’s ok to take it beyond that, especially according to what Paul says.

That is the reason I say I’d rather err on the side of love and compassion…If my understanding of Paul is right…I’m ok…if it’s wrong…then my heart has suffered no violence, I will throw myself on the Mercy of God, at least I have sought to offer compassion to those I do not understand and love for those who do not understand me.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

That is the reason I say I’d rather err on the side of love and compassion…If my understanding of Paul is right…I’m ok…if it’s wrong…then my heart has suffered no violence, I will throw myself on the Mercy of God, at least I have sought to offer compassion to those I do not understand and love for those who do not understand me.

Yeah, I wouldn’t suggest being mean to them – though if they go where the Bible is discussed they will rightfully hear about objections. But I wouldn’t come out and say “what a lovely couple!” either.

 

[Publisher]

Yeah, I wouldn’t suggest being mean to them – though if they go where the Bible is discussed they will rightfully hear about objections. But I wouldn’t come out and say “what a lovely couple!” either.

LOL!!! I have said “What a lovely couple” to the Clerk. I’m glad there would be no meaness from you.

Peace Friend.

 

[Podo2005]

The next post is taken from a forum. I would like everyone to read what the bible really says. I feel many people are ignorant of the true meanings of scripture verses and also the Hebrew translations
which are very different from the Christian.

Christianity is supposed to be about “love” as taught by Jesus. Yet, the average Christian is so hate filled and so judgemental. Christians pretend they love gays but hate the sin. We all know this is totally impossible. These words are foolish.

I am brought up as a Christian. I believe in God the Father, Son ,and Holy Spirit. I also believe God loves everybody with an unconditional love.

It is proven that people are born being homosexual. It is not a choice just as being hetrosexual is not a choice.

I might now classify myself as being a Progressive Christian, something like that. This means I’ve stopped looking at the world and everyone who is not Christian with hate filled eyes and scorn believing I am better than they are.

I used to see the world as “us, the Christians” and “them” meaning non Christians. I had a little narrow mind and I thought God’s mind was just as narrow. I’ve since learned. God loves all people. The greatest thing any Christian has to learn is to love all people and to see all people through the eyes of Jesus.

Jesus loves you whoever you are. Jesus accepts you whoever you are. Jesus doesn’t care about colour, race, or sex orientation. Jesus said nothing about homosexuality.

I am not gay. I appeal to all Christians on the board : “Lets learn to love”. Lets stop playing God and sitting in judgement of our fellow neighbors. Lets stop being self righteous and holier than thou. Lets stop speaking for God.

The real truth is that nobody knows God. God is unknowable, a mystery. The bible came through the minds of men and it was oral stories passed down for many years and finally written down. Some of it is inspired by the Holy Spirit but much of it is not.

God bless everyone on the board. Let us all work towards discovering truth and love. Lets drop the hate toward any persons.

Sincerely

Genevieve

Yes God does love everyone that is true, and we shouldn’t look at homosexuals just because their sin is homosexuality because there could be heterosexuals out there sinning outside…
However there are some errors in your logic, for one it has NEVER been proved that people are born homosexual, that is just something put out nowadays in order to brainwash people, it is a choice just like every other sin! You can’t tell me that the murderer murders because he/she was born that way or the person addicted to porn looks at porn because he/she was born that way, that is just an excuse to comfort their desire to sin to make them continue in their sins and move closer away from God.
And How dare you judge most christians to be hate filled and judgemental In fact if it weren’t for the “average christian” spreading the word of Christ the world would be in a even worse state then it is today!

Sorry But I just had to rant, I really hate it when people stereotype us and then condemn us christians for what might have happened in the past or for the faults of one of two christians

Peace, Podo

 

[psyche23]

I don’t have time just yet to read all the posts here. But in response to the OP, most Catholics I know love homosexual people. if they don’t they certainly should. I have a strong background in Psychology and agree that it is an orientation that is biological in nature. One of my best friends in the entire world is also gay. I love both my friend and her girlfriend, but I don’t approve of their actions on that love. I’m more than happy to hang out with them, so on and so forth, but if they invite me to their wedding, I’ll have to politely pass. I can get into all the reasons for that later if you really want to know…

Suffice to say, I still love them. Without them in my life, my days would be pretty darn boring…

Basically, we can all love everyone without approving of their actions. That’s my suggestion for what it’s worth…

 

[justinthemartyr]

As an ex- homosexual, I know that it is not biological in nature, but is nurtured into me from a very small child.

As the www.couragerc.org organization can confirm, 100% of those coming to find relief from the homosexual lifestyle had either:

1.no relationship with a father figure as a child,

2.bad relationships and abuse from a male figure as a child

1. they were shown pornography and or abused sexually as a child.

I fell into the third category and part of the 1st.

Only after coming to know Christ personally did the desire for homosexuality leave me, and I have been in recovery from it ever since along with alcoholism. The two are VERY similar in nature at their root.

 

[Elric]

However there are some errors in your logic, for one it has NEVER been proved that people are born homosexual, that is just something put out nowadays in order to brainwash people, it is a choice just like every other sin!

So you are suggesting that being homosexual (not practicing it) is a choice?

You can’t tell me that the murderer murders because he/she was born that way or the person addicted to porn looks at porn because he/she was born that way,

I dont think that I could tell you that, although there are certain disorders that may fall into those catagories which could suggest that some people are born that way.

that is just an excuse to comfort their desire to sin to make them continue in their sins and move closer away from God.

Sounds like a pretty inconvienent excuse really.

 

[FaithofAbraham]

So you are suggesting that being homosexual (not practicing it) is a choice?

Me personally I think we all have odd thoughts pop into our heads. Sometimes in heavy traffic I would like to ram the car in front of me really hard to get it moving.

But it’s our choice to either dwell on the thoughts and give them life, or pray to ask God to remove them so they die. Until the next time they pop up, then pray some more. For the rest of your life.

 

[blessedtoo]

As an ex- homosexual, I know that it is not biological in nature, but is nurtured into me from a very small child.

As the www.couragerc.org organization can confirm, 100% of those coming to find relief from the homosexual lifestyle had either:

1.no relationship with a father figure as a child,

2.bad relationships and abuse from a male figure as a child

1. they were shown pornography and or abused sexually as a child.

I fell into the third category and part of the 1st.

Only after coming to know Christ personally did the desire for homosexuality leave me, and I have been in recovery from it ever since along with alcoholism. The two are VERY similar in nature at their root.

God bless you for your powerful witness. My experience is similar to yours. Those of us who have escaped that dead-end lifestyle must make our presence known. You are in my prayers.

 

[blessedtoo]

Do I judge? Oh yes. I am full of contradictions and paradox. Take me away. I plead guilty. The purpose of my post is in asking us all to think and open our eyes so we aren’t so quick to condemn others. There are many many really good gays living with one partner for many years and who aren’t promisicious - sp. They aren’t going from partner to partner and acting irresponsible in their sexual behaviour.

especially when we have Friends that happen to be gay who have been together for 20-30 + years. The lives they live and kindness they exhibit and the integrity by which they conduct their lives speaks for itself.

The irony here is that posts such as these are more judgemental than any Catholic could every be. Because for us, the “quality” or “quanitity” of any homosexual relationship is irrelevent. We view the monogomous homosexual no different from the promiscious homosexual because WE ARE NOT JUDGING THE PERSON! You folks make a judgement based upon your perception of the quality of the homosexual relationship. Catholic teaching judges only the behavior. ONLY THE BEHAVIOR. Since we understand that sin can not coexist with God, we should reject sinful behavior.