God Loves Homosexuals

[Elric]

As an ex- homosexual, I know that it is not biological in nature, but is nurtured into me from a very small child.

As the www.couragerc.org organization can confirm, 100% of those coming to find relief from the homosexual lifestyle had either:

1.no relationship with a father figure as a child,

2.bad relationships and abuse from a male figure as a child

1. they were shown pornography and or abused sexually as a child.

I fell into the third category and part of the 1st.

Only after coming to know Christ personally did the desire for homosexuality leave me, and I have been in recovery from it ever since along with alcoholism. The two are VERY similar in nature at their root.

I dont mean any disrespect towards yourself and I sincerly hope that you are happy and at peace with yourself and I wish you the best of luck with your life.

But the whole nurture speil based on those catagories is bogus.

I know people who fall into one, two or all three of those catagories (I actually fall into one of them, possibly two) and are not homosexual or have the slightest inclination to be so, I also know homosexuals that dont fall into any of those catagories (there are a couple on these message boards that say the same thing) yet they are still homosexual.

They are simply easy answers that can be given to those desperate for a reason as to why they are the way that they are. They dont really hold when put under scrutiny, but most who accept those answers are not wanting to put them under scrutiny.

I am glad that you feel that this group has worked for you, they dont for everyone, but I hope that they continue with you.

 

[Jimmy_B]

BINGO

My thoughts exactly.

As a society it is all about how “I” feel and not about what “God” feels.

 

[justinthemartyr]

I dont mean any disrespect towards yourself and I sincerly hope that you are happy and at peace with yourself and I wish you the best of luck with your life.

But the whole nurture speil based on those catagories is bogus.

I know people who fall into one, two or all three of those catagories (I actually fall into one of them, possibly two) and are not homosexual or have the slightest inclination to be so, I also know homosexuals that dont fall into any of those catagories (there are a couple on these message boards that say the same thing) yet they are still homosexual.

They are simply easy answers that can be given to those desperate for a reason as to why they are the way that they are. They dont really hold when put under scrutiny, but most who accept those answers are not wanting to put them under scrutiny.

I am glad that you feel that this group has worked for you, they dont for everyone, but I hope that they continue with you.

You see, nothing else has been proven 100%, in every case.

When you come up with some gene, some biological proof, in every single case of homosexuality, then we can debate your idea.

MIne was evident from the moment I came to know Jesus Christ. I did not hear about www.couragerc.org for ten more years. I have been living the great life for 15 years, with no more ties to the homosexuality I once had.

That’s the fact of the matter.

I am an ex-homosexual, which means that homosexuality is not innate, not biological, and has nothing to do with nature. Nature makes conforming and complimentary sexes, of which homosexual acts are actually the opposite of. No life comes from homosexual acts, ever.

Place two million active homosexual couples on an island, with everything they ned to survive for their entire lives, and in 100 years what do you have? 2 million deceased homosexuals species.

Place 10 heterosexual couples on that same island, with the same things needed to survive, and in only ten years you will have the beginning of a village, thriving with new life.

This is the fact the unnatural disorder of homosexual acts.

 

[TMC]

As an ex- homosexual, I know that it is not biological in nature, but is nurtured into me from a very small child.

As the www.couragerc.org organization can confirm, 100% of those coming to find relief from the homosexual lifestyle had either:

1.no relationship with a father figure as a child,

2.bad relationships and abuse from a male figure as a child

1. they were shown pornography and or abused sexually as a child.

I fell into the third category and part of the 1st.

Only after coming to know Christ personally did the desire for homosexuality leave me, and I have been in recovery from it ever since along with alcoholism. The two are VERY similar in nature at their root.

You see, nothing else has been proven 100%, in every case.

When you come up with some gene, some biological proof, in every single case of homosexuality, then we can debate your idea.

MIne was evident from the moment I came to know Jesus Christ. I did not hear about www.couragerc.org for ten more years. I have been living the great life for 15 years, with no more ties to the homosexuality I once had.

That’s the fact of the matter.

I am an ex-homosexual, which means that homosexuality is not innate, not biological, and has nothing to do with nature. Nature makes conforming and complimentary sexes, of which homosexual acts are actually the opposite of. No life comes from homosexual acts, ever.

Place two million active homosexual couples on an island, with everything they ned to survive for their entire lives, and in 100 years what do you have? 2 million deceased homosexuals species.

Place 10 heterosexual couples on that same island, with the same things needed to survive, and in only ten years you will have the beginning of a village, thriving with new life.

This is the fact the unnatural disorder of homosexual acts.

I’m glad that Courage has been helpful to you. But, with respect, it is simply incorrect to say that anything about the causes of homosexuality has been “proven”. It is certainly untrue that 100% of homosexuals have been abused or have had neglectful parents. I know homosexuals who fit none of those categories. Does Courage explicitly teach this? I did not see it on their website. The Church has not taken a position on the cause of homosexuality. The Catechism says it is “largely unexplained.”

It is difficult to even study this issue because the answers are so tied up in politics. Most scientific work seems to point to multiple factors and a mix of in-born tendencies and environmental factors. One landmark study looked at identical twins that were seperated at birth and raised seperately. It found that if one were gay the other was also gay 55% of the time. If this were a purely genetic determination that should be 100%. But if purely environmental, it should be less than 10%. So it appears that both probably play a factor. Also, “environment” does not just mean parenting or abuse, it could be that a genetic predisposition is activated by seemingly unrelated triggers.

But for those that feel strongly that homosexuality is or is not inborn, would proving that one way or another effect your view on the morality of homosexual acts?

 

[fix]

The irony here is that posts such as these are more judgemental than any Catholic could every be. Because for us, the “quality” or “quanitity” of any homosexual relationship is irrelevent. We view the monogomous homosexual no different from the promiscious homosexual because WE ARE NOT JUDGING THE PERSON! You folks make a judgement based upon your perception of the quality of the homosexual relationship. Catholic teaching judges only the behavior. ONLY THE BEHAVIOR. Since we understand that sin can not coexist with God, we should reject sinful behavior.

It is moral relativism. Note how many posts claim truth is determined by sincerity, or how people “feel”, or some other subjective scale.

Then we have the claim Jesus is merciful therefore it is “merciful” to confirm others in immoral choices based on the idea the people acting claim they are doing no wrong.

Then when faced with the illogic of it all we are told we cannot know what is right or wrong until we die?

What type of God is that random and uncaring?

 

[Elric]

You see, nothing else has been proven 100%, in every case.

Maybe but this one has been disproven and there really wasnt much going for it in the first place.

When you come up with some gene, some biological proof, in every single case of homosexuality, then we can debate your idea.

I dont actually understand this comment.

Aside from the contradictory aspect of it, I didnt make mention of any alternative reason. I only mentioned that the catagory/nurture stuff is bogus and provided reasons why it was.

MIne was evident from the moment I came to know Jesus Christ. I did not hear about www.couragerc.org for ten more years. I have been living the great life for 15 years, with no more ties to the homosexuality I once had.

That’s the fact of the matter.

Like I said, best of luck to you. If you are happy and comfortable with yourself, thats good.

I am an ex-homosexual, which means that homosexuality is not innate, not biological, and has nothing to do with nature.

This is really getting away from what I was on about. I didnt question your sexuality, I actually offered encouragement to you, I questioned the “cause” that you cited.

I think that it would be counter productive to get into the biological debate as demands for “proof” would simply make it a circular argument, plus I dont agree with the “gay gene” thing (which is why I didnt bring the issue up).

Nature makes conforming and complimentary sexes, of which homosexual acts are actually the opposite of. No life comes from homosexual acts, ever.

Again, not what I was on about.

Place two million active homosexual couples on an island, with everything they ned to survive for their entire lives, and in 100 years what do you have? 2 million deceased homosexuals species.

Place 10 heterosexual couples on that same island, with the same things needed to survive, and in only ten years you will have the beginning of a village, thriving with new life.

I dont think that even the most hard nosed politically active homosexual would debate this with you, I think that it would be safe to assume that homosexuals cant breed with each other.

Its really a pointless argument to make this breeding issue.

This is the fact the unnatural disorder of homosexual acts.

Well not really, but good luck with your hetrosexuality.

 

[buffalo]

It is moral relativism. Note how many posts claim truth is determined by sincerity, or how people “feel”, or some other subjective scale.

Then we have the claim Jesus is merciful therefore it is “merciful” to confirm others in immoral choices based on the idea the people acting claim they are doing no wrong.

Then when faced with the illogic of it all we are told we cannot know what is right or wrong until we die?

What type of God is that random and uncaring?

Yeah - no one wants to touch absolute truth with a 10 foot pole. They will argue moral relativism until they are blue in the face, but stop short of actually searching for the truth.

 

[Iloveu2]

Hey Guys…Here I am! Sorry for the long delay in getting back to you. I’m new and I’m not able to click the proper keys on the private message board. Help please. What do I click to answer a message there?

Whew! I read all of this thread. I copy pasted some of it. Hopefully I can get back with some answers. Give me a bit of time. I’m a true blue goody two shoes meaning no lies, no playing games on the net! I was brought up in N.S. in a small village of about 50 people called the Garden of Eden…lol. I’m living in Toronto since 1956 but I’ve never forgotten my small time country farmer roots meaning I’m country gold still…laugh!

I came here to promote love. That’s all I’m about basically. Yes, yes, the issues spoken about here are ever so complicated. I do understand. I really don’t know any gays personally. I only know that I’ll be 70 years old and anytime the word “gay” is mentioned in superficial conversations I may have generally speaking it is met with UGH or expressions of disgust. I haven’t met anyone who has anything good to say about gays.

May God have mercy on our souls and forgive us for how we are treating and abusing our fellow human beings the gays all over the world. God help us. Be with us and teach us to judge no person on the basis of their sexual orientation.

P.S. Sorry I’m not able to concentrate 100% at the moment. My husband of 44 years is having his bladder removed due to cancer this coming Monday. I do need to spend quality time with him. I go on the net as a diversion or escape from worry. I just found this forum and I couldn’t resist it. I haven’t explored it very much. I’m not looking for sympathy. I’m telling you the truth. I did post a heavy heavy topic; my own fault.

See next post for a small addition. I’ll get to your questions later. Its a promise.

 

[Iloveu2]

This is also a quote from a forum. It says that God did not tell Adam who he should choose as a partner. Therefore, I believe the meaning is that God also does not tell us who we should choose as a partner meaning male or female…if I’m correct in my assessment? We have a choice. The choice wasn’t just given to Adam. I quote:

God does all this wonderful stuff. All of what God does, God sees as good.

Then, Bam! God sees something not so good.

The human God created is alone. God says it is not good for the human to be alone. God said it. It is not good to be lonely. The first wrong thing and God sees it.

God does not want Adam to be lonely. God creates animals and brings them to Adam so Adam can find a help mate. Do you think God wanted Adam to procreate and marry a rhino? No…

God did not want Adam to be lonely. God, wanted Adam to find what Adam needed in order to not be lonely.

God does not say “here, take this”.

God is letting Adam decide.

God.

God is not saying “this will fix your loneliness”.

God is not imposing.

God.

God is letting Adam choose.

When Adam finds nothing will bring him intimacy, companionship and love.

God offers yet another choice.

God offers.

So, who does God say gets to decide what is good when it comes to intimacy, companionship and love?

end of quote

 

[buffalo]

This is also a quote from a forum. It says that God did not tell Adam who he should choose as a partner. Therefore, I believe the meaning is that God also does not tell us who we should choose as a partner meaning male or female…if I’m correct in my assessment? We have a choice. The choice wasn’t just given to Adam. I quote:

God does all this wonderful stuff. All of what God does, God sees as good.

Then, Bam! God sees something not so good.

The human God created is alone. God says it is not good for the human to be alone. God said it. It is not good to be lonely. The first wrong thing and God sees it.

God does not want Adam to be lonely. God creates animals and brings them to Adam so Adam can find a help mate. Do you think God wanted Adam to procreate and marry a rhino? No…

God did not want Adam to be lonely. God, wanted Adam to find what Adam needed in order to not be lonely.

God does not say “here, take this”.

God is letting Adam decide.

God.

God is not saying “this will fix your loneliness”.

God is not imposing.

God.

God is letting Adam choose.

When Adam finds nothing will bring him intimacy, companionship and love.

God offers yet another choice.

God offers.

So, who does God say gets to decide what is good when it comes to intimacy, companionship and love?

end of quote

So if Adam refused Eve what do you think would have happened?

 

[fix]

This is also a quote from a forum. It says that God did not tell Adam who he should choose as a partner. Therefore, I believe the meaning is that God also does not tell us who we should choose as a partner meaning male or female…if I’m correct in my assessment? We have a choice. The choice wasn’t just given to Adam. I quote:

God does all this wonderful stuff. All of what God does, God sees as good.

Then, Bam! God sees something not so good.

The human God created is alone. God says it is not good for the human to be alone. God said it. It is not good to be lonely. The first wrong thing and God sees it.

God does not want Adam to be lonely. God creates animals and brings them to Adam so Adam can find a help mate. Do you think God wanted Adam to procreate and marry a rhino? No…

God did not want Adam to be lonely. God, wanted Adam to find what Adam needed in order to not be lonely.

God does not say “here, take this”.

God is letting Adam decide.

God.

God is not saying “this will fix your loneliness”.

God is not imposing.

God.

God is letting Adam choose.

When Adam finds nothing will bring him intimacy, companionship and love.

God offers yet another choice.

God offers.

So, who does God say gets to decide what is good when it comes to intimacy, companionship and love?

end of quote

I find this a bit confusing. Are you saying God allows us to choose badly? Because He does allow that, but it is a misuse of freedom.

 

[Iloveu2]

Sorry I have to keep quoting but its because I’m not able to articulate by myself what I wish to put forth. I hope you all understand. Someone on the thread asked why I believe the bible. I’m making reference to the bible because it is used as a strong sword against gay people. It is very often quoted. I hate to bring this up but what about the Crusades and the Inquistion in the history of the Catholic church? What about the Catholic treatment of the Jews? Did the Catholics do right? Will the Catholics once again have to concede that they have made big mistakes in denouncing our fellow gays in Christ ? Shall we go back to the times when people were burned at the stake and boiled in oil ? Off with the heads of gays…lets go get 'em…the gay holocaust.

I quote from the net again:

The Mosaic laws tell me I should kill adulterers, and slaughter the entire family of an idolater including women, children, and even livestock. These purges even include genocide. Is this acceptable now? Is it acceptable to keep slaves now? Can I now have my children executed for offending me?

To quote John Shelby Spong;

"Without spending dwelling deeply into this subject, it is not surprising that many tend to accept uncritically the oft-repeated Evangelical and Conservative definitions that the Bible is anti-gay. If these people were honest, they would have to admit that the Bible is also pro-slavery and anti-women.

There is also a widely accepted mentality that if the Bible is opposed, the idea must be wrong. That is little more than nonsensical fundamentalism. The rise of democracy was contrary to the “clear teaching of the Bible.” as the debate over the forced signing of the Magna Carta by King John of England in 1215 revealed. The Bible was quoted to prove that Galileo was wrong; that Darwin was wrong; that Freud was wrong; and that allowing women to be educated, to vote, to enter the professions, and to be ordained was wrong. So the fact that the Bible is quoted to prove that homosexuality is evil and to be condemned is hardly a strong argument, given the history of how many times the Bible has been wrong.

The Bible was written between the years 1000 B.C.E. and 135 C.E. Our knowledge of almost everything has increased exponentially since that time. It is the height of ignorance to continue using the Bible as an encyclopedia of knowledge to keep dying prejudices intact.

This is not surprising since the religious people keep quoting it to justify their continued state of unenlightenment. That attitude is hardly worthy of the time it takes to engage it. I do not debate with members of the flat Earth society either. Prejudices all die. The first sign that death is imminent comes when the prejudice is debated publicly. The tragedy is that church leaders too often back the wrong side of the conflict, which is happening today from the Pope to the Archbishop of Canterbury to the current crop of Evangelical leaders. That too will pass and the debate on homosexuality will be just one more embarrassment in Christian history."

end of quote

 

[Iloveu2]

fix

God did give us freewill to make choices and continues to do so. He gave us brains. He does or did not tell us who to choose. He appears to have left it open if I’m reading correctly. He gave the responsibility to Adam who was a person. God didn’t say : “You must only find companionship in such and such a way”.

 

[buffalo]

fix

God did give us freewill to make choices and continues to do so. He gave us brains. He does or did not tell us who to choose. He appears to have left it open if I’m reading correctly. He gave the responsibility to Adam who was a person. God didn’t say : “You must only find companionship in such and such a way”.

Oh no - He gave us guidelines and instructions.

His very first instruction regarded marriage - “Go forth and multiply.”

 

[fix]

I’m making reference to the bible because it is used as a strong sword against gay people. It is very often quoted. I hate to bring this up but what about the Crusades and the Inquistion in the history of the Catholic church?

They were both morally correct. But, that is another thread.

What about the Catholic treatment of the Jews?

When did the Church mistreat Jewish people? If you mean people in the Church, then yes we are all sinners but that does not make the teaching on morals wrong it makes humans sinners.

Did the Catholics do right? Will the Catholics once again have to concede that they have made big mistakes in denouncing our fellow gays in Christ ?

No, because the Church was not wrong before, is not wrong now, and does not denounce any person.

Shall we go back to the times when people were burned at the stake and boiled in oil ? Off with the heads of gays…lets go get 'em…the gay holocaust.

You would need to explain this.

 

[fix]

fix
God did give us freewill to make choices and continues to do so. He gave us brains. He does or did not tell us who to choose. He appears to have left it open if I’m reading correctly. He gave the responsibility to Adam who was a person. God didn’t say : “You must only find companionship in such and such a way”.

You have heard of the 10 commandments?

 

[fix]

The Mosaic laws tell me I should kill adulterers, and slaughter the entire family of an idolater including women, children, and even livestock. These purges even include genocide. Is this acceptable now? Is it acceptable to keep slaves now? Can I now have my children executed for offending me?

You may want to start with this:

Because the code of morality which we have in the Old Testament was inspired by God and imposed by Him on His people, it follows that there is nothing in it that is immoral or wrong. It was indeed imperfect, if it be compared with the highermorality of the Gospel, but, for all that, it contained nothing that is blameworthy. It was suited to the low stage of civilization to which the Israelites had at the time attained; the severe punishments which it prescribed for transgressors were necessary to bend the stiff necks of a rude people; the temporal rewards held out to those who observed the law were adapted to an unspiritual and carnal race. Still its imperfections must not be exaggerated.

To quote John Shelby Spong;

"Without spending dwelling deeply into this subject, it is not surprising that many tend to accept uncritically the oft-repeated Evangelical and Conservative definitions that the Bible is anti-gay. If these people were honest, they would have to admit that the Bible is also pro-slavery and anti-women.

Only if understood in a facile way.

There is also a widely accepted mentality that if the Bible is opposed, the idea must be wrong. That is little more than nonsensical fundamentalism. The rise of democracy was contrary to the “clear teaching of the Bible.” as the debate over the forced signing of the Magna Carta by King John of England in 1215 revealed. The Bible was quoted to prove that Galileo was wrong; that Darwin was wrong; that Freud was wrong; and that allowing women to be educated, to vote, to enter the professions, and to be ordained was wrong. So the fact that the Bible is quoted to prove that homosexuality is evil and to be condemned is hardly a strong argument, given the history of how many times the Bible has been wrong.

The Bible was written between the years 1000 B.C.E. and 135 C.E. Our knowledge of almost everything has increased exponentially since that time. It is the height of ignorance to continue using the Bible as an encyclopedia of knowledge to keep dying prejudices intact.

This is not surprising since the religious people keep quoting it to justify their continued state of unenlightenment. That attitude is hardly worthy of the time it takes to engage it. I do not debate with members of the flat Earth society either. Prejudices all die. The first sign that death is imminent comes when the prejudice is debated publicly. The tragedy is that church leaders too often back the wrong side of the conflict, which is happening today from the Pope to the Archbishop of Canterbury to the current crop of Evangelical leaders. That too will pass and the debate on homosexuality will be just one more embarrassment in Christian history."

end of quote

This is what happens when we make ourselves a god.

 

[Booklover]

Hey Guys…Here I am! Sorry for the long delay in getting back to you. I’m new and I’m not able to click the proper keys on the private message board. Help please. What do I click to answer a message there?

Whew! I read all of this thread. I copy pasted some of it. Hopefully I can get back with some answers. Give me a bit of time. I’m a true blue goody two shoes meaning no lies, no playing games on the net! I was brought up in N.S. in a small village of about 50 people called the Garden of Eden…lol. I’m living in Toronto since 1956 but I’ve never forgotten my small time country farmer roots meaning I’m country gold still…laugh!

I came here to promote love. That’s all I’m about basically. Yes, yes, the issues spoken about here are ever so complicated. I do understand. I really don’t know any gays personally. I only know that I’ll be 70 years old and anytime the word “gay” is mentioned in superficial conversations I may have generally speaking it is met with UGH or expressions of disgust. I haven’t met anyone who has anything good to say about gays.

May God have mercy on our souls and forgive us for how we are treating and abusing our fellow human beings the gays all over the world. God help us. Be with us and teach us to judge no person on the basis of their sexual orientation.

Excuse me, but this is boloney! Have you ever seen how gays treat those who are actively opposing their agenda?? Marilyn Musgrave who is the writer of the Marriage Amendment has received countless emails from gays full of obscenities! Eugene Delgaudio, Public Advocate, who’s been fighting the Gay Bill of Special Rights, which would give homosexuals rights no other American has, and the so-called Hate Crimes Bill which would make crimes against gays more heinous than against other people, has received death threats, obscene emails, has had his family stalked, his office trashed, his employees threatened as well, and even had the rotting carcass of a dog left outside his office! All this has been done by radical homosexuals!

Recently there was a parade in San Francisco, I believe, where gays were running around naked in the streets and sodomizing each other. Is this the kind of behaviour you promote??

Vickie

 

[blessedtoo]

I dont mean any disrespect towards yourself and I sincerly hope that you are happy and at peace with yourself and I wish you the best of luck with your life.

But the whole nurture speil based on those catagories is bogus.

I know people who fall into one, two or all three of those catagories (I actually fall into one of them, possibly two) and are not homosexual or have the slightest inclination to be so, I also know homosexuals that dont fall into any of those catagories (there are a couple on these message boards that say the same thing) yet they are still homosexual.

They are simply easy answers that can be given to those desperate for a reason as to why they are the way that they are. They dont really hold when put under scrutiny, but most who accept those answers are not wanting to put them under scrutiny.

I am glad that you feel that this group has worked for you, they dont for everyone, but I hope that they continue with you.

How very interesting that when an acutal, real live homosexual (or former, as in this case) shows up on a thread like this and speaks about his journey, his testimony is trumped by someone’s else’s second hand experience of “someone he knows”. Pathetic.

Let’s just see how tolerant the dissenters are when chaste and Catholic homosexuals come to testify of their experiences. The indoctrinated and misguided heterosexuals who wear their banner of “love and acceptance for all” suddenly don’t know how to respond, except with silly second hand stories.

 

[blessedtoo]

We don’t beat up on liars, cheaters, adulterers etc. and chain them to a fence leaving them there to die like a recent case in the U.S.A. where a gay person was killed. When are we going to stop beating up on gays and killing them? When are we going to stop saying its O.K. to treat gays like lepers? Jesus went toward the lepers. How do you know he doesn’t go towards our gay brothers and sisters? The least shall be first…the first shall be last…

Look, your intentions may be to “spread the love” but your words are hateful and completely based on lies.

We are Catholics. You will NEVER find anything in our techings that state we are to “kill, beat, hate” homosexuals or “treat them like lepers.” You must have Catholics confused with some other sect. If you want to have a discussion here with Catholics, I suggest that before you start the mud-slinging you inform yourself of Church teaching.

I’m going to assume, from your comments, that you don’t have a TV, or any books, or any magazines or a radio. Because if you did, you would certainly see that, far from your claim that homosexuals in our culture are villified, they are now celebrated and elevated to a protected class.

The title of your thread is “God loves Homosexuals”. So do Catholics. In fact, we love them SO much we want to see them in heaven. We want our families and friends to have the chance to meet their Heavenly Father. We want them to have full and grace-filled lives while they are here on earth. We actually treat them with more dignity and equality than the pandering liberals who clearly believe that they are too “sensitive” to hear and understand the truth.