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JMJ_coder
Guest
By your logic:
Jesus is a human being, all of humanity is sinful so Jesus was a sinner.
And as you know that directly contradicts Scripture.
God tells us in His written word that Jesus was born of a virgin, He didn't tell us a sinless virgin
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Jesus is a human being, all of humanity is sinful so Jesus was a sinner.
And as you know that directly contradicts Scripture.
J
Jennifer_J
Guest
Actually, almost right:
Mary is saved by God’s Grace through Faith and the “work” of carrying Jesus, the Son of God–it just happened at her conception, so that she could be the Ark of the New Covenant.
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adstrinity
Guest
emeraldisle, you have quoted Romans 5:12 and 1 Peter 2:21-22; are you saying Scripture contradicts itself???
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love4mary
Guest
uch: Emeraldisle,after your postings I am in need of a Bottle and a Half of Asprin (stole that line from a movie
).
On the UP side though, you have, like an earlier poster commented,have made me a STRONGER CATHOLIC.But can I ask you a question? probably has been asked, but this thread is loooooong.
Why in the world does it bother you so much that Mary is addressed by her rightful name FULL OF GRACE? does Our belief in this truth interfer with YOUR worshiping of our Lord Jesus Christ? Will YOUR salvation be denied because WE believe in this truth?
You don’t believe and that is your choice (that ‘pesky free will thing’
) but we choose TO believe,does this bother you?
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Zooey
Guest
Although I was thinking more along the lines of
Old Grand-Dad and water…
kissme:, you see!)
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onenow1
Guest
Quote=OneNow1, Emeraldisle, JMJ_coder has it exactly right and has been expressed a few times if I’m not mistaken.
Jesus Christ is one person who possesses two natures. He has a Divine nature and a human nature. He is not a Divine person AND a human person, as that would make Him two persons.
A person receives his nature from his father. His Father’s nature is Divine.Therefore, He is also Divine, which makes Him a Divine person.
A person possesses a nature. A nature does not possess person.
Nature describes what a person can do, but the person does it.
Mothers give birth to totally complete persons, each with a nature. Never does a mother give birth to a nature alone.
Natures do not have mothers, persons do.
Therefore, Mary gave birth to the person of Jesus Christ, who is a Divine person, thus making her the Mother of GOD.
So you see Emeraldisle, Mary could not have sinned, because it would mean Jesus was born with original sin.
Peace, OneNow1 :coffee
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GailMac
Guest
Yippie OneNow1! You go guy! Nice post. Wonder if Emerald will admit getting it?
Peace,
Gail
Peace,
Gail
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emeraldisle
Guest
Gods revealed Truth in His written word is not my logic.
Do you have a problem with God telling us that Jesus is sinless and that all the rest of humanity is sinful?
I know you don’t like the fact that Mary is part of sinful humanity but its Gods Truth whether you like it or not.
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Please show chapter and verse that states Mary was a sinner. All you have done is to make an assumption and inference based on a logical fallacy that has been pointed out to you repeatedly here.
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emeraldisle
Guest
Does it bother you that you have have a disagreement with some Catholic Bible translations?
"Even a Catholic source such as Zerwick avoids the translation ‘full of grace,’ opting instead for the less theologically loaded praises ‘endowed with grace; dearly loved.’ The MNT task force translates it as ‘graciously favored by God,’ while noting that the Douay Rheims translation, ‘full of grace,’ is not literal and is gradually being replaced among Roman Catholic translators. The most recent standard Catholic translations the NAB and the JB, have followed suit in their renditions (NAB, ‘O highly favored daughter’; JB, ‘So highly favored’) [Eric Svendsen, Who Is My Mother? (New York: Calvary Press, 2001) p. 129].
aomin.org/aoblog/index.php?itemid=2490
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emeraldisle
Guest
The onus is on you to try and disprove what God says in His written word. He clearly tells us all of humanity, which includes Mary is sinful. Now before you go on about Jesus again, God clearly tells us in His written word that He is sinless.
.
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Gamera
Guest
Your interpretation is your logic.
I have a problem with you incorrectly claiming God told us something which, in fact, He did not tell us.
No, it isn’t.
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Gamera
Guest
Nobody here wants to “disprove what God says in His written word.” The problem is that you have added to God’s written word extra content which isn’t there.
Please answer my question from before: did a stillborn baby sin?
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Gamera
Guest
So you agree that “all” doesn’t mean every individual human being. Right?
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Jennifer_J
Guest
You do understand that the link here that you keep posting ad nauseum is to an Evangelical and Anti-catholic (and dare I say anti-Catholic Answers?) site? Why would I trust what they have to say about CATHOLIC scripture, traditon, dogma or doctrine? Short answer, I wouldn’t…
How’s about this one?
(though I hold out little hope that you’ll actually look at it, or read it, or acknowledge it…you don’t want to DISCUSS, you want to TELL 
)bringyou.to/apologetics/a116.htm
Additionally, “Full of Grace” is what the Angel Gabriel called her instead of her name
<<salutation to Mary: “Chaire, Kecharitomene” (translated in the Latin Vulgate “Hail, Full of Grace”).>>
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emeraldisle
Guest
Why did the curse of death come into this world?
This thread is about Mary, so again I say was she a stillborn baby?
.
E
emeraldisle
Guest
You have conveniently ignored the fact that these Catholic translators don’t use “full of grace”. Its clear that the “full of grace” translation is wrong and even these Catholic translators agree with this fact.You do understand that the link here that you keep posting ad nauseum is to an Evangelical and Anti-catholic (and dare I say anti-Catholic Answers?) site? Why would I trust what they have to say about CATHOLIC scripture, traditon, dogma or doctrine? Short answer, I wouldn’t…
How’s about this one?
bringyou.to/apologetics/a116.htm
Additionally, “Full of Grace” is what the Angel Gabriel called her instead of her name
<<salutation to Mary: “Chaire, Kecharitomene” (translated in the Latin Vulgate “Hail, Full of Grace”).>>
.
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Gamera
Guest
No, she wasn’t a stillborn baby. Now please show me the same courtesy I showed you, and answer my question. Did a stillborn baby sin? Yes or no? Because if you answer “no,” there goes your whole argument in this thread, that “all have sinned” means literally every human being.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Ah, emeraldisle, you missed this post from me last night. Allow me to repeat, and please answer:
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GailMac
Guest
Dear Emeraldisle - perhpas reading what God said might help. Here goes: 26 And in the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God into a city of Galilee, called Nazareth, 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David: and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 Who having heard, was troubled at his saying and thought with herself what manner of salutation this should be. 30 And the angel said to her: Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God. 31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb and shalt bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name Jesus. 32 He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever. 33 And of his kingdom there shall be no end. 34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? 35 And the angel answering, said to her: The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. 36 And behold thy cousin Elizabeth, she also hath conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her that is called barren. 37 Because no word shall be impossible with God. 38 And Mary said: Behold the handmaid of the Lord: be it done to me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. 39 And Mary rising up in those days, went into the hill country with haste into a city of Juda. 40 And she entered into the house of Zachary and saluted Elizabeth. 41 And it came to pass that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost. 42 And she cried out with a loud voice and said: Blessed art thou among women and blessed is the fruit of thy womb. 43 And whence is this to me that the mother of my Lord should come to me? 44 For behold as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy. 45 And blessed art thou that hast believed, because those things shall be accomplished that were spoken to thee by the Lord. 46 And Mary said: My soul doth magnify the Lord 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour. 48 Because he hath regarded the humility of his handmaid: for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49 Because he that is mighty hath done great things to me: and holy is his name. 50 And his mercy is from generation unto generations, to them that fear him. 51 He hath showed might in his arm: he hath scattered the proud in the conceit of their heart. 52 He hath put down the mighty from their seat and hath exalted the humble. 53 He hath filled the hungry with good things: and the rich he hath sent empty away. 54 He hath received Israel his servant, being mindful of his mercy 55 As he spoke to our fathers: to Abraham and to his seed for ever. 56 And Mary abode with her about three months. And she returned to her own house. The Gospel of St. Luke, Chapter 1.
Does this help?
Peace,
Gail
Does this help?
Peace,
Gail
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