God tells us in His written word that Jesus was born of a virgin, He didn't tell us a sinless virgin

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The passage in Psalm 14 says, does it not, that all have sinned?

Here, let me give you (again) the whole psalm.
Bold is my emphasis.
The fool has said in his heart:
“There is no God above.”
Their deeds are corrupt, depraved;
not a good man is left.

God looks down from heaven
**on the sons of men, **
to see if any are wise,
if any seek God.

All have left the right path;
**depraved, every one. **
There is not a good man left,
no, not even one.

Will the evildoers not understand?
They eat up my people
**as though they were eating bread; **
they never pray to God.’

See how they tremble with fear
without cause for fear;
for God scatters the bones of the wicked.
They are shamed; God rejects them.

O that Israel’s salvation might come from Zion!
When God delivers his people from bondage
then Jacob will be glad and Israel rejoice.
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Now if ‘there is not a good man left, no, not even one’. . .then who are ‘God’s people’ whom the evil are ‘eating’? Who are God’s people if ‘there is not a good man left, no not even one.’
 
ConallCernach said:
Please explain to me how sola scriptura is not fanciful explanation.

Pax
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Its not fanciful speculation that God has told us in His written word that all of humanity is sinful and its not fanciful speculation that Mary is part of sinful humanity.

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Tantum_ergo said:
The passage in Psalm 14 says, does it not, that all have sinned?

Here, let me give you (again) the whole psalm.
Bold is my emphasis.

Now if ‘there is not a good man left, no, not even one’. . .then who are ‘God’s people’ whom the evil are ‘eating’? Who are God’s people if ‘there is not a good man left, no not even one.’
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Thanks, what version are you using?

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emeraldisle said:
This thread is about Mary, so again I say was she a stillborn baby?

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So your argument is that stillborn babies don’t sin? That all doesn’t include stillborn babies. How very interesting!

Where exactly in the bible does it say that all adults have sinned? I can’t find that passage.
 
emeraldisle said:
Your argument is totally flawed because Mary is not a stillborn baby. It is so obvious that Rom 5:12 includes Mary
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Does Rom 5:12 not include stillborn babies? Does all not really mean all? This is a remarkable admission on your part.
 
emeraldisle said:
I have already stated in this thread that fanciful speculation is wrong. I’m addressing the facts that God has revealed to us in His written word. Now we know Mary was not stillborn and we know that Rom 5:12 does relate to her. The Truth is that Mary is part of sinful humanity.

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Where does Rom 5:12 state that stillborn babies have not sinned? Where does the bible state that Rom 5:12 doesn’t apply to stillborn babies (“sinful humanity” is the phrase you keep using). I can’t find that part.
 
emeraldisle said:
Its not fanciful speculation that God has told us in His written word that all of humanity is sinful and its not fanciful speculation that Mary is part of sinful humanity.

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Yes it is fanciful speculation to believe that the written Word is all we have of revelation of God.
It is also fanciful speculation that Mary is part of sinful humanity.

You have no basis of an argument, you’re argument is an absence of evidence, which plainly isn’t evidence of absence.

Pax
 
emeraldisle said:
Its not fanciful speculation that God has told us in His written word that all of humanity is sinful and its not fanciful speculation that Mary is part of sinful humanity.

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Then stillborn babies must have sinned. Each and every one of them. Yes or no? Your evasions up to this point speak volumes. Why do you continue to refuse to address the fundamental question of what “all” actually encompasses?

Does Rom 5:12 apply to stillborn babies, yes or no?
 
VociMike said:
So your argument is that stillborn babies don’t sin? That all doesn’t include stillborn babies. How very interesting!

Where exactly in the bible does it say that all adults have sinned? I can’t find that passage.
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With all due respect you are barking up the wrong tree. I’m addressing what God tells us in His written word about Mary. Its other posters who are trying to address the stillborn baby issue. If they feel so strongly about this issue then they should start another thread about it.

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Are stillborn babies humans?
I think they are, right.
So, if 'all humanity has sinned", then emerald, you are saying stillborn babies have sinned.

Yes?
 
emeraldisle said:
With all due respect you are barking up the wrong tree. I’m addressing what God tells us in His written word about Mary. Its other posters who are trying to address the stillborn baby issue. If they feel so strongly about this issue then they should start another thread about it.

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You brought up Rom 5:12, so Rom 5:12 is a legitimate topic of discussion on this thread.

Does Rom 5:12 apply to stillborn babies, yes or no? All it requires is a single word answer. Have the courage to answer.
 
ConallCernach said:
Please explain to me how sola scriptura is not fanciful explanation.

Pax
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emeraldisle said:
Its not fanciful speculation that God has told us in His written word that all of humanity is sinful and its not fanciful speculation that Mary is part of sinful humanity.

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Am I to understand that you cannot justify sola scriptura???

…I think emeraldisle has blocked me, he’s not answering.
 
VociMike said:
You brought up Rom 5:12, so Rom 5:12 is a legitimate topic of discussion on this thread.

Does Rom 5:12 apply to stillborn babies, yes or no? All it requires is a single word answer. Have the courage to answer.
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Rom 5:12 in relation to Mary not stillborn babies.

Why are you so keen to deflect this discussion away from Mary to stillborn babies?

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emeraldisle said:
Rom 5:12 in relation to Mary not stillborn babies.

Why are you so keen to deflect this discussion away from Mary to stillborn babies?

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Because we are trying to prove to you that there are exceptions.

Also, prove to us, **without fanciful speculation ** that Rom 5:12’s **context ** refers to Mary specifically.
 
emeraldisle said:
God clearly tells us in His written word that Jesus would be born of a virgin, He didn’t tell us that Jesus would be born of a sinless virgin.

"Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, a virgin will be with child and bear a son, and she will call His name Immanuel.

Isaiah 7: 14

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The Angel Gabrial said hail Full of Grace, that means sinless. If you can’t trust the Arch Angel assigned to deliver the news of our redemption who can you trust? I hope the Arch Angel Gabrial is not offended by your disbelief.
 
ConallCernach said:
I don’t think you can block, he may just be ignoring you.
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That’s new, then…

One could reason that Mary was indeed sinless because how many other virgin births have there been? Yes, there have been virgin pregnancies, but, how many other virgin births? One would think this would constitute, logically, Her being sinless…
 
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