God tells us in His written word that Jesus was born of a virgin, He didn't tell us a sinless virgin

[ConallCernach]

That’s new, then…

One could reason that Mary was indeed sinless because how many other virgin births have there been? Yes, there have been virgin pregnancies, but, how many other virgin births? One would think this would constitute, logically, Her being sinless…

Virgin pregnancies?

 

[emeraldisle]

Are stillborn babies humans?
I think they are, right.
So, if 'all humanity has sinned", then emerald, you are saying stillborn babies have sinned.

Yes?

Im saying that Mary was not a stillborn baby and that Rom 5:12 relates to you, me and Mary.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- Rom 5:12

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[ConallCernach]

Im saying that Mary was not a stillborn baby and that Rom 5:12 relates to you, me and Mary.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- Rom 5:12

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Again, prove that it is geared for Mary. Show us how you can say that and guarantee that the Mother of God is not an exception.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

So you’re saying that ‘all’ means you, me, Mary (I disagree about Mary of course). . .but not stillborn babies.

Or, “all” does not mean ‘all’.

 

[VociMike]

Rom 5:12 in relation to Mary not stillborn babies.

So the “all” of Rom 5:12 refers to Mary but not stillborn babies? How do you know this? Where does the bible say this?

Why are you so keen to deflect this discussion away from Mary to stillborn babies?

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You brought up Rom 5:12, and you claim that “all” means every single human being, including Mary. So I want to know what sins a stillborn baby has committed, since “all” must also mean them. So what sin has a stillborn baby committed? If none, then why does Rom 5:12 (the basis of your entire argument) not apply to the countless millions of stillborn babies throughout history? What possible justification can you have for saying that “all” in Rom 5:12 doesn’t apply to millions of human beings?

So answer the question. You’ve spent hundreds of words now evading, when just a single word answer would suffice.

 

[VociMike]

Im saying that Mary was not a stillborn baby and that Rom 5:12 relates to you, me and Mary.

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- Rom 5:12

.

Where is the phrase “all adults” to be found in Rom 5:12? Which translation has that?

 

[emeraldisle]

Because we are trying to prove to you that there are exceptions.

Yes by using fanciful ideas that have nothing to do with Mary. I’m keeping to the facts and the Truth that God has revealed to us in His written word.

Why not just admit that you can’t disprove what God has told us in His written word.

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[yellowbird]

Again, prove that it is geared for Mary. Show us how you can say that and guarantee that the Mother of God is not an exception.

Because there are exceptions to the ALL:

1. Jessus
2. Babies who die shortly after birth - in fact all children who die in early childhood.
3. People who are mentally handicapped who’s understanding are that of small children. Even if they live to a ripe old age, they do not sin.
4. Mary

LOOK at all those exceptions - since Adam & Eve they would nubmer into the millions… probably billions - all those children dying in early childhood. Soooooo… Obviously ALL doesn’t mean ALL.
Now I know that #4 is driving you NUTS because YOU want her to be part of the all have sinned, but I can’t for the life of me figure out why?

Why is so important for you to cling to the notion that the Mother of God was great big sinner?

 

[ConallCernach]

Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- Rom 5:12

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Problems with this, what if I say that Mary is a woman and clearly here it says men? What if this is about genesis and that all the created people at that time sinned (Adam and Eve).

Why is not those interpretations? XD

 

[yellowbird]

Bring it on! Show us the verse that says Mary sinned. You can’t. It’s not there. The verse you showed said all have sinned and yet there have been literally Billions of “humanity” who were not sinful.

So where’s the verse that says Mary sinned? It’s not the one in Romans you keep quoting. That ALL doesn’t mean ALL. Since there have been billions, can’t you allow that maybe the Mother of God is included as one of those billions?

If not, that’s fine. Suit yourself. She’s a great big sinner. But you’re believing that NOT based on scripture, but on what you WANT to believe.

How sad.

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[ConallCernach]

Yes by using fanciful ideas that have nothing to do with Mary. I’m keeping to the facts and the Truth that God has revealed to us in His written word.

Why not just admit that you can’t disprove what God has told us in His written word.

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HAHAHAHA

You need to pick up a thesaurus and get a new phrase, you sound totally brainwashed!

They are related to Mary because there are exceptions to the word “all”. You aren’t keeping true to the written word in it’s literal meaning because you still haven’t told me you killed anyone for skipping church on Saturday, and admitting that “all” doesn’t mean “all” because of Jesus, young children and those with hard mental illnesses.

I have disproved you, and ponder these 15 pages of text that you have one argument which is clearly being refuted over and over again.

 

[emeraldisle]

Problems with this, what if I say that Mary is a woman and clearly here it says men? What if this is about genesis and that all the created people at that time sinned (Adam and Eve).

Why is not those interpretations? XD

So you start a new teaching that all men a sinners and all women are sinless???

Woman

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[VociMike]

Yes by using fanciful ideas that have nothing to do with Mary. I’m keeping to the facts and the Truth that God has revealed to us in His written word.

OK, since you won’t answer a simple question, let me ask you another one. Who does Rom 5:12 apply to? Does it apply to every single human being, or only some human beings? Please don’t dodge this question like you’ve dodged the other one.

 

[ConallCernach]

So you start a new teaching that all men a sinners and all women are sinless???

Woman

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Nope, I’m not trying to start an new interpretation, I have the authority of the Church to help me understand the verse. You however have no such authority except preconceived notions which you are trying to grab verses to support. I want you to show how the other interpretations are wrong, otherwise yours is just another drop in a puddle.

 

[ConallCernach]

OK, since you won’t answer a simple question, let me ask you another one. Who does Rom 5:12 apply to? Does it apply to every single human being, or only some human beings? Please don’t dodge this question like you’ve dodged the other one.

He must be good at dodgeball, or at least a cheater, cause he’s not seeing the hits. XD

 

[adstrinity]

Virgin pregnancies?

Yes, I have read stories of accounts that heavy petting can lead to this. …Can’t find any resources now, of course, BUT, I found this:

"It was only fitting that the mother of Christ totally submit, on behalf of all of us, to her special role. The beauty of using a virgin to give us a Redeemer is missed unless one thinks about the concept of virginity as it relates to the rest of us.

Virginity is indeed valuable. And it is not sacred because of this particular commandment or that particular rule of morality. It is sacred because totally submitting yourself to another is the greatest gift one can give. God did it for us. He showed us His soft side, so to speak, and continues to do it with the teachings of Christ and the Beatitudes.

It’s not corny to do it for ourselves, too.
As far as how he pulled off the virgin conception, I guess I really don’t care so much how as why. The HOW I can accept through faith; the WHY is typical of the beauty He offers us in this gift we call life."
gynob.com/xmas99.htm

 

[ConallCernach]

Yes, I have read stories of accounts that heavy petting can lead to this. …Can’t find any resources now, of course, BUT, I found this:

"It was only fitting that the mother of Christ totally submit, on behalf of all of us, to her special role. The beauty of using a virgin to give us a Redeemer is missed unless one thinks about the concept of virginity as it relates to the rest of us.

Virginity is indeed valuable. And it is not sacred because of this particular commandment or that particular rule of morality. It is sacred because totally submitting yourself to another is the greatest gift one can give. God did it for us. He showed us His soft side, so to speak, and continues to do it with the teachings of Christ and the Beatitudes.

It’s not corny to do it for ourselves, too.
As far as how he pulled off the virgin conception, I guess I really don’t care so much how as why. The HOW I can accept through faith; the WHY is typical of the beauty He offers us in this gift we call life."
gynob.com/xmas99.htm

But in order for sperm to get to an egg to fertilize it, doesn’t the hymen need to be broken?

 

[Gamera]

Im saying that Mary was not a stillborn baby and that Rom 5:12 relates to you, me and Mary…

… just not to “all.”

 

[emeraldisle]

Bring it on! Show us the verse that says Mary sinned. You can’t. It’s not there. The verse you showed said all have sinned and yet there have been literally Billions of “humanity” who were not sinful.

So where’s the verse that says Mary sinned? It’s not the one in Romans you keep quoting. That ALL doesn’t mean ALL. Since there have been billions, can’t you allow that maybe the Mother of God is included as one of those billions?

If not, that’s fine. Suit yourself. She’s a great big sinner. But your believing that NOT based on scripture, but on what you WANT to believe.

How sad.

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Even you know that Mary was not stillborn or mentally disabled. Even you should know that there is a stage of accountability for sin in a persons life. Just because a person doesn’t understand that they have sinned doesn’t mean they didn’t sin.

The fact is Mary did not live a sinless life and this fact is so clearly revealed by God in the fact that she was part of sinful humanity. The good news is that the Lord Jesus died to save sinners like you, me and Mary. So its not sad because God sent His Son into this world to save sinners like you, me and Mary. What a great God and how great is His love and mercy towards sinners like you, me and Mary!

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[Gamera]

Because there are exceptions to the ALL:

1. Jessus
2. Babies who die shortly after birth - in fact all children who die in early childhood.
3. People who are mentally handicapped who’s understanding are that of small children. Even if they live to a ripe old age, they do not sin.
4. Mary

1. Elizabeth and Zechariah (Luke 1:6)