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ConallCernach
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Why do you feel this irrelevant need to try to stain the image of Mary?Forget about Mary re Rom 5:12
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God tells us in His written word that Jesus was born of a virgin, He didn't tell us a sinless virgin
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emeraldisle
Guest
God tells us in His written word that Jesus is sinless, so He is the exception. There is no contradiction but just plain Truth that God has revealed to us in His written word.You claim that the verse from Romans each and every human is sinful. If it admits of no exceptions, then that means that Jesus is a sinner, since Jesus is human. This is clearly contrary to Scripture. If it does admit of exceptions (meaning ‘all’ is a general term, not an absolute one), then that verse can’t be directly imputed to Mary - which means you need to show where else in Scripture it says that the Mother of God is a sinner.
Mary is included in the all in Rom 5:12, so are you and so am I.
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ConallCernach
Guest
Where is the Biblical exception for young children?God tells us in His written word that Jesus is sinless, so He is the exception. There is no contradiction but just plain Truth that God has revealed to us in His written word.
Mary is included in the all in Rom 5:12, so are you and so am I.
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emeraldisle
Guest
Telling Gods Truth about Mary doesn’t dishonor her, it honors God who loves Mary and gave His Son to save a sinners like you, me and Mary. What a great God, what great mercy He has for sinners like you, me and Mary.Why do you feel this irrelevant need to try to stain the image of Mary?
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ConallCernach
Guest
God saved Mary prior to being stained by original sin, which allowed her to overcome temptation. You dishonour her by trying to place the stain of sin upon the sinless.Telling Gods Truth about Mary doesn’t dishonor her, it honors God who loves Mary and gave His Son to save a sinners like you, me and Mary. What a great God, what great mercy He has for sinners like you, me and Mary.
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cfrancis
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See, we can agree! Yes Mary was saved by Jesus Christ! It just so happens her saving happened before she was born!Telling Gods Truth about Mary doesn’t dishonor her, it honors God who loves Mary and gave His Son to save a sinners like you, me and Mary. What a great God, what great mercy He has for sinners like you, me and Mary.
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ConallCernach
Guest
Except that in his wording he declares Mary a sinner.
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emeraldisle
Guest
Are your comments on those verses the official teaching of the Catholic Church?Alas, you’ll probably consider these fanciful speculations. But I thought I’d show you how it is possible that God may just have preserved Mary from sin during her life. This passage contains the Biblical “proofs” that there were those who lived between Adam and Moses who didn’t sin. Is it possible He did the same for Mary? As for your trying to get around the Law part, you’re on your own. I’ve got other stuff to do and this thread is way too long as it is. But a clue might be found in another passage that speaks about God freeing from the Law those under it.
Peace,
Gail
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emeraldisle
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More fanciful speculation, once you step outside the boundary of Gods Truth you end up with all sorts of fanciful speculations.See, we can agree! Yes Mary was saved by Jesus Christ! It just so happens her saving happened before she was born!
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ConallCernach
Guest
Like sola scriptura!More fanciful speculation, once you step outside the boundary of Gods Truth you end up with all sorts of fanciful speculations.
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emeraldisle
Guest
Its it wonderful that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners like you, me and Mary. What joy must have filled Mary’s heart when she realized that the Lord Jesus came into the world to forgive her sins.Except that in his wording he declares Mary a sinner.
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners 1 Tim 1:15
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ConallCernach
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Christ saved Mary in a way unique to her. He saved her prior to stain.Its it wonderful that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners like you, me and Mary. What joy must have filled Mary’s heart when she realized that the Lord Jesus came into the world to forgive her sins.
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners 1 Tim 1:15
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adstrinity
Guest
rolls eyes If Mary had sin, then how could she be Immaculately Concieved? She admitted Herself that She was created without sin.
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ConallCernach
Guest
If he knows what the Immaculate Conception is, he’s not going to accept it.rolls eyes If Mary had sin, then how could she be Immaculately Concieved? She admitted Herself that She was created without sin.
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emeraldisle
Guest
More fanciful speculation.If he knows what the Immaculate Conception is, he’s not going to accept it.
FYI re IC: The Catholic Encyclopedia, under the heading, Proof from Scripture, states, “No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture.”
newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
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larry_m
Guest
Here is the doctrine of "The Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary’, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX in 1854- “Let all the children of the Catholic Church… continue to VENERATE, invoke, & PRAY to the most blessed Virgin Mary, mother of God, conceived without original sin.” I know by giving Scripture to my friends in the Catholic communion doesn’t matter much because of their standing on tradition above the Scriptures, but here goes. Please read, Luke 1:46,47 (only sinners are in need of a Savior), Rom.3:10,23; 5:12; Heb.4:15; 1 John1:8,10. There is only One Person Who is called sinless in the Scriptures, Our Savior, Heb.7:26; 4:15; 2 Cor.5:21; 1 Peter 2;22; 1 John 3:5. Those who claim for themselves or anyone else sinlessness, read, 1 John 1:8-10. The scope of this doctrine of Mary goes far beyond the question posed in this thread. This is only a foundation for other unbiblical doctrines of Mary, ie…, her ever virginity, praying to Mary, shrines to Mary, churches to Mary which are 10 to 1 in place of our Savior, identifying her as co-Redemptrix with our Savior for the human race, called the Queen of Heaven whereas the only such name in Scripture is given to an idol in Jer. 44:18,19. I am sure my Catholic friends will have some wonderful things to say about this. Always a pleasure to hear from them. Your brother in our Savior.
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adstrinity
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And it goes on to list Scripture that does support it.More fanciful speculation.
FYI re IC: The Catholic Encyclopedia, under the heading, Proof from Scripture, states, “No direct or categorical and stringent proof of the dogma can be brought forward from Scripture.”
newadvent.org/cathen/07674d.htm
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But we agree then that Mary admitted it?
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Gamera
Guest
Emeraldisle, Catholics and Orthodox agree that Jesus saved Mary. We simply believe that He saved her in a unique way (anticipatorily). So, yes, what a great God we have that saved Mary in advance from every stain of sin.
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Gamera
Guest
Emeraldisle, I’m still waiting for you to state whether Zechariah and Elizabeth sinned (see Luke 1:6).
Of course, I’m also still waiting for you to state whether a stillborn baby sinned, but perhaps you’ll at least extend the courtesy of answering one out of two questions, since I’ve answered your one question twice, so let’s try the quedstion about Elizabeth and Zechariah.
Of course, I’m also still waiting for you to state whether a stillborn baby sinned, but perhaps you’ll at least extend the courtesy of answering one out of two questions, since I’ve answered your one question twice, so let’s try the quedstion about Elizabeth and Zechariah.
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ConallCernach
Guest
It’d be nice if he could give scriptural back up for the defence of children.
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