God's fault we are sinners?

[CRV]

400 The harmony in which they had found themselves, thanks to original justice, is now destroyed: the control of the soul’s spiritual faculties over the body is shattered; the union of man and woman becomes subject to tensions, their relations henceforth marked by lust and domination.282 Harmony with creation is broken: visible creation has become alien and hostile to man.283 Because of man, creation is now subject “to its bondage to decay”.284 Finally, the consequence explicitly foretold for this disobedience will come true: man will “return to the ground”,285 for out of it he was taken. Death makes its entrance into human history .286

401 After that first sin, the world is virtually inundated by sin There is Cain’s murder of his brother Abel and the universal corruption which follows in the wake of sin. Likewise, sin frequently manifests itself in the history of Israel, especially as infidelity to the God of the Covenant and as transgression of the Law of Moses. And even after Christ’s atonement, sin raises its head in countless ways among Christians.287 Scripture and the Church’s Tradition continually recall the presence and universality of sin in man’s history :

What Revelation makes known to us is confirmed by our own experience. For when man looks into his own heart he finds that he is drawn towards what is wrong and sunk in many evils which cannot come from his good creator. Often refusing to acknowledge God as his source, man has also upset the relationship which should link him to his last end, and at the same time he has broken the right order that should reign within himself as well as between himself and other men and all creatures.288

The consequences of Adam’s sin for humanity

402 All men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as St. Paul affirms: “By one man’s disobedience many (that is, all men) were made sinners”: "sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned."289 The Apostle contrasts the universality of sin and death with the universality of salvation in Christ. "Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men."290

continued below …

 

[CRV]

403 Following St. Paul, the Church has always taught that the overwhelming misery which oppresses men and their inclination towards evil and death cannot be understood apart from their connection with Adam’s sin and the fact that he has transmitted to us a sin with which we are all born afflicted, a sin which is the “death of the soul”.291 Because of this certainty of faith, the Church baptizes for the remission of sins even tiny infants who have not committed personal sin.292

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”.293 By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin , but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state .294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.

405 Although it is proper to each individual,295 original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants. It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted: it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle.

406 The Church’s teaching on the transmission of original sin was articulated more precisely in the fifth century, especially under the impulse of St. Augustine’s reflections against Pelagianism, and in the sixteenth century, in opposition to the Protestant Reformation. Pelagius held that man could, by the natural power of free will and without the necessary help of God’s grace, lead a morally good life; he thus reduced the influence of Adam’s fault to bad example. The first Protestant reformers, on the contrary, taught that original sin has radically perverted man and destroyed his freedom; they identified the sin inherited by each man with the tendency to evil (concupiscentia), which would be insurmountable. The Church pronounced on the meaning of the data of Revelation on original sin especially at the second Council of Orange (529)296 and at the Council of Trent (1546).297

God bless.

 

[Vico]

I am not talking necessarily about mortal sin, but sin and imperfection in general. We will be judged on it and suffer in purgatory for these things even though to a certain extent these things are unavoidable

God created us humans imperfectly, but with the possibility that we could become sharers in the divine nature. Instead it is a journey for us. If we as individuals do not respond to the gifts that God gives us, then we will not become capable of the Beatific Vision after this life. Yes, there is suffering. God is the primary cause of all that is, however allows free will in some creatures (the rational creatures) such that they are partial causes and can be responsible. Having free will allows for the expression of charity, and through that one can become perfected in charity, thereby able to attain the Beatific Vision.

Catechism

310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? With infinite power God could always create something better.174 But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world “in a state of journeying” towards its ultimate perfection. In God’s plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more perfect alongside the less perfect, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached perfection.175

311 Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has moral evil, incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil.176 He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it:

For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.177

1028 Because of his transcendence, God cannot be seen as he is, unless he himself opens up his mystery to man’s immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. The Church calls this cotemplation of God in his heavenly glory “the beatific vision”:

How great will your glory and happiness be, to be allowed to see God, to be honored with sharing the joy of salvation and eternal light with Christ your Lord and God, . . . to delight in the joy of immortality in the Kingdom of heaven with the righteous and God’s friends.604

1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. … self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called “hell.”

1045 … The beatific vision, in which God opens himself in an inexhaustible way to the elect, will be the ever-flowing well-spring of happiness, peace, and mutual communion.

1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. …

 

[halogirl]

Every sin I’ve ever done is because I told myself it was ‘probably ok’ . That’s not Gods fault

 

[po18guy]

I think you are cherry-picking. To paraphrase our Lord, “It is you who say so” From the Modern Catholic Dictionary by Fr. John Hardon† S.J.,

FREE WILL. The power of the will to determine itself and to act of itself, without compulsion from within or coercion from without. It is the faculty of an intelligent being to act or not act, to act this way or another way, and is therefore essentially different from the operations of irrational beings that merely respond to a stimulus and are conditioned by sensory objects.

Not a peep in there about free will being used only for evil. That sounds almost Calvinist. From the catechism:

CCC1834 The human virtues are stable dispositions of the intellect and the will that govern our acts, order our passions, and guide our conduct in accordance with reason and faith. They can be grouped around the four cardinal virtues: prudence, justice, fortitude, and temperance.

CCC1734 Freedom makes man responsible for his acts to the extent that they are voluntary. Progress in virtue, knowledge of the good, and ascesis enhance the mastery of the will over its acts.

 

[Latin]

…

I read your posts more then three times very carefully, I also carefully studied Fr. J. E. on God’s permissive and active will.

I understand the paragraphs of the Catechism in your posts, these paragraphs states what happened at the “fall.”
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But the paragraphs totally silent on the TECHNICALITY the way God step by step made the events happened at the “fall,” the way God step by step made the “fallen” man/ old creation, 2 Cor.5:17 referring back to.

2 Cor.5:17; Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation: The old has gone, the new is here!

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The Scripture explains in great detail the way God makes from the “fallen” man/ old creation the new creation.

Ez.36:26-27; I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put my Spirit in you and cause you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.
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CCCS 1990-1991; "In this gift, faith, hope, charity, and OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S WILL are given to us.

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From the above light, we have good information the way at the “fall” God step by step made/ created the “fallen” man/ old creation. – The reverse of Ez.36:26-27, etc.

At the “fall,” God removed the heart of flesh and put a heart of stone instead.
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God made the “fallen” man/ old creation carnally minded, God also made him unable to subject to His law, (Rom.8:6-7).
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God hardwired/ infused the “fallen” man/ old creation with the law of sin, all manner of evil desire, the inclinations for all kinds of sins, (Rom.7:8-23). etc.
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Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Ludwig Ott,

Fallen man cannot redeem himself. (De fide.)

For every salutary act internal supernatural grace of God (gratia elevans) is absolutely necessary. (De fide.)

There is a supernatural intervention of God in the faculties of the soul, which precedes the free act of the will. (De fide.)

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As we see CRV, by knowing the way God makes the new creation just the reverse of it the way God made the “fallen” man/ old creation at the “fall.”

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314; God decided that through the dramas of evil and sin, 302; takes the human race through in a state of journeying (in statu viae), 310; towards its ultimate perfection.

For the benefit of the human race. At the point, God made the above decision: He takes the human race to ultimate perfection through the dramas of evil and sin, God had no other choice, He must create the dramas of evil and sin and this is what He created at the CAUSE of the “fall.”

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THE MYSTERY OF PREDESTINATION by John Salza
Page 113: “God, however, willed to permit Adam to reject His grace and to sin.” – He ordered the events of the “fall.”

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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God bless

 

[Rabbi]

Good question! Why did G-d put the snake in the garden? Now you’re getting it. It was all planned, this isn’t to say, however, that G-d is evil.

I’m not sure how Catholics will respond, but we Jews don’t really believe in hell, nor the concept of original sin.

 

[rosejmj]

That is interesting. How do you explain evil and sin and suffering without original sin?

Do you believe in heaven? What happens to someone who doesn’t love be the commandments? I have trouble believing in hell. It seems too cruel

 

[Rabbi]

Thank you for asking! We do believe in heaven after death, as well as the resurrection of the dead in the Messianic Age. The Jewish version of hell (if you believe it) isn’t one of pain, fire, and brimstone, but rather, a place of deep contemplation. There, one realizes all the missed opportunities to do good and then studies Torah. After about 11 months of hard study and prayer, that soul is lifted to the heavenly abode, heaven. Now, almost all souls get sent here since a lot of us aren’t perfect (saints), but again, it’s nothing much to worry about as hell is just time at the “waiting room” while also praising G-d and asking for His forgiveness.

Now, what may happen to the soul of Hitler? Who knows, some think it was too wicked, and was obliterated.

We also believe - we’ll, I guess I should say some of us - in reincarnation. A person lives again if he or she sinned against a person and never asked forgiveness, so in their next life, opportunities are given, unbeknownst to them, to correct past mistakes.

From a Jewish standpoint, keeping the commandments isn’t harsh like a Law. Torah can be interpreted as Law, but it really means “instruction.” Similarly, mitzvot doesn’t have to mean “commandments” insomuch that it means “connections,” therefore, we like to view it as connecting to G-d through them.

Lastly, why is there evil in the world? This question has been asked by so many, and answered in so many ways, that it would arrogant for me to tell you the “reason.” Therefore, let me only offer you the Jewish one. In the Bible, it often says that man is wicked from birth, or that man learns evil soon after birth. This is due to his evil inclination, as well as free will, which G-d designed. Plus, G-d allowed evil to exist in the means to test our love for Him.

 

[rosejmj]

Thank you for the explanation. It makes more sense now. The explanation of hell makes sense.

It makes sense to me that someone as bad as Hitler would just cease to exist rather than go to “hell”.

 

[Rabbi]

Thank you, I’m glad I could help

 

[Latin]

No it’s ours Adam and Eve had a free will on whether not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

The truth is, the “fall” of Adam and Eve neither their fault nor God’s fault.

Catholic Encyclopedia: Evil
“But we cannot say without denying the Divine omnipotence, that another equally perfect universe could not be created in which evil would have no place.”

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05649a.htm
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As we see above, if God would willed, He could create this world without the existence of evil and sin.

310 But why did God not create a world so perfect that no evil could exist in it? … God freely willed to create a world in a state of journeying towards its ultimate perfection.
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302 The universe was created in a state of journeying (in statu viae) toward an ultimate perfection ( 314 Through the dramas of evil and sin) yet to be attained, to which God has destined it. God protects and governs all things which he has made.

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THE MYSTERY OF PREDESTINATION by John Salza
Page 113; “God, however, willed to permit Adam to reject His grace and to sin.” – He ordered their “fall.”
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As we see above, God willed to bring us to ultimate perfection through the dramas of evil and sin.

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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains;

His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe that the end for which it was created may be realized.

He directs all, even evil and sin itself, to the final end for which the universe was created.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12510a.htm
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AS WE SE ABOVE AND BELOW
a. His wisdom He so orders all events within the universe .

b. The Divine will is the cause of all things/ every events with in the universe.

c. God protects and governs all things which he has made.

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308 The truth that God is at work in all the actions of his creatures is inseparable from faith in God the Creator.
God is the first cause who operates in and through secondary causes: "For God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure."171
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St. Thomas teaches that God effects everything, the willing and the achievement. S. Th.II/II 4, 4 ad 3:

St. Thomas also teaches that all movements of will and choice must be traced to the divine will: and not to any other cause, because Gad alone is the cause of our willing and choosing. CG, 3.91.
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This is above the correct understanding of our free will, Gad alone is the cause of our willing and choosing and we FREELY will and we FREELY choose.
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CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Divine Providence explains.
Life everlasting promised to us, but unaided we can do nothing to gain it (Rom.7:18-24).
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324 Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
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For more detailed explanation, please see my above posts No. 35, 46.
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God bless