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Bahman
Guest
Yes if you are detached completely from illusion.Must be the absence of life then.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Ha, yes, understand our inadequacy and surrender to the abandonment of ego which rather limits the progress of the self loving and knowing God. We apparently have the unique ability to create evil out of nothing.
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Bookcat
Guest
“Happy are you who believe!” (cf 1 Peter 2:7). Let us turn to Jesus! He alone is the way that leads to eternal happiness, the truth who satisfies the deepest longings of every heart, and the life who brings ever new joy and hope, to us and to our world."
~Homily at Yankee Stadium by Pope Benedict XVI
"The sarcophagi of the early Christian era illustrate this concept visually—in the context of death, in the face of which the question concerning life’s meaning becomes unavoidable. The figure of Christ is interpreted on ancient sarcophagi principally by two images: the philosopher and the shepherd. Philosophy at that time was not generally seen as a difficult academic discipline, as it is today. Rather, the philosopher was someone who knew how to teach the essential art: the art of being authentically human—the art of living and dying. To be sure, it had long since been realized that many of the people who went around pretending to be philosophers, teachers of life, were just charlatans who made money through their words, while having nothing to say about real life. All the more, then, the true philosopher who really did know how to point out the path of life was highly sought after.
Towards the end of the third century, on the sarcophagus of a child in Rome, we find for the first time, in the context of the resurrection of Lazarus, the figure of Christ as the true philosopher, holding the Gospel in one hand and the philosopher’s travelling staff in the other. With his staff, he conquers death; the Gospel brings the truth that itinerant philosophers had searched for in vain. In this image, which then became a common feature of sarcophagus art for a long time, we see clearly what both educated and simple people found in Christ: he tells us who man truly is and what a man must do in order to be truly human. He shows us the way, and this way is the truth. He himself is both the way and the truth, and therefore he is also the life which all of us are seeking. He also shows us the way beyond death; only someone able to do this is a true teacher of life.
The same thing becomes visible in the image of the shepherd. As in the representation of the philosopher, so too through the figure of the shepherd the early Church could identify with existing models of Roman art. There the shepherd was generally an expression of the dream of a tranquil and simple life, for which the people, amid the confusion of the big cities, felt a certain longing.
Now the image was read as part of a new scenario which gave it a deeper content: “The Lord is my shepherd: I shall not want … Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, because you are with me …” (Ps 23 [22]:1, 4). The true shepherd is one who knows even the path that passes through the valley of death; one who walks with me even on the path of final solitude, where no one can accompany me, guiding me through: he himself has walked this path, he has descended into the kingdom of death, he has conquered death, and he has returned to accompany us now and to give us the certainty that, together with him, we can find a way through. The realization that there is One who even in death accompanies me, and with his “rod and his staff comforts me”, so that “I fear no evil” (cf. Ps 23 [22]:4)—this was the new “hope” that arose over the life of believers."
~ Pope Benedict XVI Encylical on Hope
~Homily at Yankee Stadium by Pope Benedict XVI
"The sarcophagi of the early Christian era illustrate this concept visually—in the context of death, in the face of which the question concerning life’s meaning becomes unavoidable. The figure of Christ is interpreted on ancient sarcophagi principally by two images: the philosopher and the shepherd. Philosophy at that time was not generally seen as a difficult academic discipline, as it is today. Rather, the philosopher was someone who knew how to teach the essential art: the art of being authentically human—the art of living and dying. To be sure, it had long since been realized that many of the people who went around pretending to be philosophers, teachers of life, were just charlatans who made money through their words, while having nothing to say about real life. All the more, then, the true philosopher who really did know how to point out the path of life was highly sought after.
Towards the end of the third century, on the sarcophagus of a child in Rome, we find for the first time, in the context of the resurrection of Lazarus, the figure of Christ as the true philosopher, holding the Gospel in one hand and the philosopher’s travelling staff in the other. With his staff, he conquers death; the Gospel brings the truth that itinerant philosophers had searched for in vain. In this image, which then became a common feature of sarcophagus art for a long time, we see clearly what both educated and simple people found in Christ: he tells us who man truly is and what a man must do in order to be truly human. He shows us the way, and this way is the truth. He himself is both the way and the truth, and therefore he is also the life which all of us are seeking. He also shows us the way beyond death; only someone able to do this is a true teacher of life.
The same thing becomes visible in the image of the shepherd. As in the representation of the philosopher, so too through the figure of the shepherd the early Church could identify with existing models of Roman art. There the shepherd was generally an expression of the dream of a tranquil and simple life, for which the people, amid the confusion of the big cities, felt a certain longing.
Now the image was read as part of a new scenario which gave it a deeper content: “The Lord is my shepherd: I shall not want … Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil, because you are with me …” (Ps 23 [22]:1, 4). The true shepherd is one who knows even the path that passes through the valley of death; one who walks with me even on the path of final solitude, where no one can accompany me, guiding me through: he himself has walked this path, he has descended into the kingdom of death, he has conquered death, and he has returned to accompany us now and to give us the certainty that, together with him, we can find a way through. The realization that there is One who even in death accompanies me, and with his “rod and his staff comforts me”, so that “I fear no evil” (cf. Ps 23 [22]:4)—this was the new “hope” that arose over the life of believers."
~ Pope Benedict XVI Encylical on Hope
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Bahman
Guest
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Bahman
Guest
You know my friend, my religion is wherever it may lead. I think I have enough strength to face and to make it alone hence I don’t need anyone to show me the way. At the end, this is spiritual journey that we have to make alone to show that we are something. Are you afraid of death? I am not. Aren’t you strong enough? I hope so.
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Bookcat
Guest
Read the above.
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Bookcat
Guest
"It is not science that redeems man: man is redeemed by love. This applies even in terms of this present world. When someone has the experience of a great love in his life, this is a moment of “redemption” which gives a new meaning to his life. But soon he will also realize that the love bestowed upon him cannot by itself resolve the question of his life. It is a love that remains fragile. It can be destroyed by death. The human being needs unconditional love. He needs the certainty which makes him say: “neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Rom 8:38- 39). If this absolute love exists, with its absolute certainty, then—only then—is man “redeemed”, whatever should happen to him in his particular circumstances. This is what it means to say: Jesus Christ has “redeemed” us. Through him we have become certain of God, a God who is not a remote “first cause” of the world, because his only-begotten Son has become man and of him everyone can say: “I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me” (Gal 2:20).
In this sense it is true that anyone who does not know God, even though he may entertain all kinds of hopes, is ultimately without hope, without the great hope that sustains the whole of life (cf. Eph 2:12). Man’s great, true hope which holds firm in spite of all disappointments can only be God—God who has loved us and who continues to love us “to the end,” until all “is accomplished” (cf. Jn 13:1 and 19:30). Whoever is moved by love begins to perceive what “life” really is. He begins to perceive the meaning of the word of hope that we encountered in the Baptismal Rite: from faith I await “eternal life”—the true life which, whole and unthreatened, in all its fullness, is simply life. Jesus, who said that he had come so that we might have life and have it in its fullness, in abundance (cf. Jn 10:10), has also explained to us what “life” means: “this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” (Jn 17:3). Life in its true sense is not something we have exclusively in or from ourselves: it is a relationship. And life in its totality is a relationship with him who is the source of life."
If we are in relation with him who does not die, who is Life itself and Love itself, then we are in life. Then we “live”. "
~ Pope Benedict XVI Encylical on Hope Spe Salvi
It is he - Jesus of Nazareth whom I propose to all.
In this sense it is true that anyone who does not know God, even though he may entertain all kinds of hopes, is ultimately without hope, without the great hope that sustains the whole of life (cf. Eph 2:12). Man’s great, true hope which holds firm in spite of all disappointments can only be God—God who has loved us and who continues to love us “to the end,” until all “is accomplished” (cf. Jn 13:1 and 19:30). Whoever is moved by love begins to perceive what “life” really is. He begins to perceive the meaning of the word of hope that we encountered in the Baptismal Rite: from faith I await “eternal life”—the true life which, whole and unthreatened, in all its fullness, is simply life. Jesus, who said that he had come so that we might have life and have it in its fullness, in abundance (cf. Jn 10:10), has also explained to us what “life” means: “this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent” (Jn 17:3). Life in its true sense is not something we have exclusively in or from ourselves: it is a relationship. And life in its totality is a relationship with him who is the source of life."
If we are in relation with him who does not die, who is Life itself and Love itself, then we are in life. Then we “live”. "
~ Pope Benedict XVI Encylical on Hope Spe Salvi
It is he - Jesus of Nazareth whom I propose to all.
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tonyrey
Guest
Death is an escape from the evil in the world.
*
We are not. But the machine, our mental state is very real.
Our mind is not a machine. As well as being conscious with hindsight, insight and foresight we can control ourselves.
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oldcelt
Guest
Tony…we’ve agreed on something again.
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Bahman
Guest
So you enter into another world. Do you have any evidence for sure that the next world is somehow is better than what are living now? Assume yes. You get used to it after a while, what then?
I didn’t say that our mind is machine. I said our mental states are machine. That is a big difference.
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DanAl
Guest
Why would there be a tension between my free-will and God telling me what is foreseen about myself?
Necessity applies to propositions and not contingent facts. If you disagree explain why the mental foreknowledge of an action or event *necessitates *a contingent action or event.
To put it simply, you’re making a modal fallacy: iep.utm.edu/foreknow/
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Bahman
Guest
There is no tension if you don’t know foresee otherwise there is since you could do otherwise, what is not Gods foresee.
That is very definition of God’s foresee. This however doesn’t mean that we are not free but indicates that we have different fates.
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tonyrey
Guest
If you appreciate love you never get used to life because it is the source of goodness, joy, beauty and creativity.
What is the difference?
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Bahman
Guest
Perhaps you should double think since you are talking about eternal life. It would be fruitful to think of those things that you practiced in your current life and they are not pleasing for you anymore.
Mind is you and mental state is what you or others do.
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DanAl
Guest
1-You say that future events are* foreseen* rather than *foreknown *. If only the present exists, how can the future be seen by God? if you think time allows God or God’ knowledge involves a “seeing” of what will happen, then you need to justify those claims independently.
2- If God’s “seeing” is infallible, then how does my knowledge of what will happen undermine God’s infallibility? I don’t see any argument other than the claim that, “God, let me know what you know (or see) and that will be enough to frustrate your infallibility.”
You need an argument that explains how God is fallible or one explaining that my knowledge of the future trumps God’s knowledge of the future.
3- Again, you’re making a modal fallacy. My ability to possibly do otherwise does not entail my ability to actually do otherwise.
If I infallibly know that I will jump in a minute, you could say it is possible for me not to jump. But It does not follow that I will actually not jump.
Read the link provided.
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Bahman
Guest
First your correction of my words completely change what I wanted to say.
Either future exist or not from God point of view. In first case we say that God foresees the event and in the second case we say that God foreknows the future, assuming that God knows everything. Either way, each individual has a fate once we accept very fact that God knows everything.
Because the situation becomes paradoxical, since either you could do otherwise which means that God’s foresees is different from what you do or you cannot which means you have no free will.
There is not such a things. We have possibilities before decision and actualities after decision. The key question is whether you can make a decision which is different from what God knows? What is your answer?
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DanAl
Guest
I already answered the question. I can possibly do something else from what God knows, but since God knows infallibly what I will do, the statement, “DanAl will fall asleep in one hour,” is a an infallibly true statement.
Where’s the necessity or determinism in any of the above? Or let’s make it simpler, how does infallible knowledge of something interacts/causes events or facts of the world? How does infallible knowledge of something necessitates an event or fact? where’s the link between knowledge and the external world?
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oldcelt
Guest
Preordination of all future events (Catholic teaching) is the link.
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davidv
Guest
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oldcelt
Guest
http.newadvent.org/cathen/12378a.htm
Foreordain:
verb (used with object)
- to ordain or appoint beforehand.
- to predestine; predetermine.
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