God's Foreknowledge and Free Will Vs Choice

[oldcelt]

If the end is not written please explain the entire book of revelation that we’ve been taught to believe. also may i gently renerate thousands of scientifically documented cases of precognitive thought preminitions as well as prophesy. If there is no such thing as fate then you can explain all this away how? Possitive note i do agree our souls are eternal beings. Even the bible speaks of fate as revelation and prophesy would not be so. Peter was not then fated to deny Jesus three times before the rooster crows? If fate is not possible then how could jesus know it to be so?

Excellent question…applies to Judas and numerous others.

 

[Bookcat]

If the end is not written please explain the entire book of revelation that we’ve been taught to believe… Peter was not then fated to deny Jesus three times before the rooster crows? If fate is not possible then how could jesus know it to be so?

No. Persons free choice are included.

“To God, all moments of time are present in their immediacy.” (CCC 600)

All moments - all free choices are seen by God coming forth freshly as it were. God not so much “foresees” *** “sees”. All together. God sees my birth and my death, and the death of King Tutt …the fall of Rome and the Moon landing…

God is outside of Time.

Jesus is* God* the Son and the Logos (Word) …included in his human knowledge was what he came to reveal etc…

 

[Richca]

I’ve enjoyed reading the many discussions on this forum about God’s foreknowledge and the implications for free will, however I frequently encounter the same argument which I don’t think establishes free will. Typically the discussion goes something like this:

Poster: If God knows how we will act we cannot have free will.

Responder: God’s foreknowledge does not equal causation. Example: I have a son and I give him the choice of ice cream or vegetables. I know he will pick ice cream, but my knowing does not cause his choice.

This response equates choice with free will, but I’m not sure they are the same. For example, let’s say I give my dog Baxter a choice between a steak and a salad. I know he will choose the steak because that is his favorite, but we would not therefore say Baxter has free will. We would say he made a decision based off some underlying motive or instinct (physical requirement, taste, etc…)

If free will is not simply the ability to choose, what is it? A standard definition is making a choice that is not determined by prior causes. But it seems impossible for us to be the source of our choices. We may rationalize our decisions, but this is really just the brain’s way of dealing with an overwhelming amount of internal and external information. Often our decisions are made at a subconscious level before we are aware of them. Since we can’t fathom all the factors involved in a decision, we allow ourselves the illusion of free will.

God however does not have this problem since he is both omniscient and transcends time. God knew before the universe existed how we will respond to the stimulus we encounter. He could have created a world in which Adam and Eve would freely choose obedience or where Judas would choose not to betray Jesus. Since ours is the world God actualized, it logically appears God is the only one with free will.

God is infinitely just and there is no injustice in him. He cannot justly punish an angel or human being for a sin if that angel or human being did not commit that sin freely. Otherwise, in what sense could we say God is just?