God's love is an absurdity

[BlaineTog]

Punishment of the fallen angels is a token punishment only.

They are in a state of hell. I suspect that they are totally incapable of feeling any pleasure in anything. And I certainly think that deprivation of the beatific vision must at least feel like the worst thing ever, certainly more than a “knuckle wrapping.”

They rejected God outright to His face, therefore they should receive total incarceration to an extent greater than humans, who have never had a one-on-one proximity to God.

Angels and God’s servants. We are his children, heirs to the kingdom, to whom the whole of the world was given to be our playpen. If your servant spits in your face, that’s bad, but if your beloved son does, that’s much much worse.

Secondly, he knows those who He WILL create that won’t make it. He gives them a poor success rate, (reprobate) THEN he creates them.

We don’t know the “success rate.” It hasn’t been revealed, at least not publicly. Perhaps you have insider information?

i]I say every aware being has an inalienable right to CHOOSE TO EXIST.

Impossible, absurd. You have to exist before you can be aware, and once you exist, you can no longer “choose to not be created.”

Once you do exist, you would need the power of God to cause you to cease existing. But if you accept God even a little, you’re de facto in purgatory, which is really just a part of heaven. If you slap God to the side, you’re in hell and thus have already refused his help.

And… why do we have this right, exactly? From where does it come?

i]It is not this way because of one possible limitation of God. It would seem that He has no control over the non-existing, nor that it has ever been proven that he can return anyone to it.

Just because God hasn’t done something or won’t do something doesn’t mean he can’t.

And that which doesn’t exist – doesn’t exist. It is incapable of being affected because there’s nothing to affect. It’s not like a ghost or something from some alternate dimension. If something doesn’t exist, it doesn’t exist at all, not anywhere, not at any time or in any way, shape, or form. By definition. Even speaking about it is just this side of insane, and it’s a contradiction in terms to speak of it like a thing.

Thirdly, original sin. It would seem that from the onset if one loved a creature, I mean truly loved a creature, one would be first inclined to the aspects of it that are positive first, not negative.

If you love someone, you see both: you applaud the good and you seek to burn away the evil. I might love my friend dearly, but if he has a drinking problem, I can’t just ask for his recommendation on what kind of beer I should get for my Super Bowl party. Maybe I need to step out of his life for a few months so he hits rock bottom and finally bounces up to ground level.

And, of course, you’re forgetting that God has, shall we say, more than two eyes.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

The punishment should not be based on an earthly standard of status, but be applied according to the immensity of the injury. They rejected God outright to His face, therefore they should receive total incarceration to an extent greater than humans, who have never had a one-on-one proximity to God.

The “devils” are not in hell until the “new creation” comes. They exist in “their eternity” which is connected to our time, such that they can do what they are allowed to do (with human persons). They are precisely one-half the number of the angels and are in constant battle with the angels such that they “just might” be able to overcome their adversaries at any point of conflict.

One of the reasons that the number of devils is one-third of the host of heaven is because of the ancient maxim that a military force with more than twice the “manpower” of it’s adversary is guaranteed to win, while having only EXACTLY twice the manpower is advantage-team-goodguys but there’s the off chance that they may be overpowered.

This is why I call demons by their rightful status, Parolees, until such day they are moved out of their privileged state and receive their just punishment.

They’re not parolees. They are not priviledged. They are allowed to exist in their environment until they “die”. They won’t “die” until the onset of the new creation.

Humans are allowed to change our minds, our commitments, during our earthly life. Angels/devils are allowed only to make irrevocable decisions, commitments, during their “lives” in their “time”.

But neither of us, angels/devils or humans, is sent to hell until ALL of us are “dead” at the “time” of the coming of the new creation.

It SEEMS like we humans are sent directly to hell when we die in mortal sin, but that is only because there is no sense in us perceiving the “time” before hell comes. Only the angels/devils are capable of perceiving that “time”, and “functioning” within it.

Secondly, he knows those who He WILL create that won’t make it. He gives them a poor success rate, (reprobate) THEN he creates them. I say every aware being has an inalienable right to CHOOSE TO EXIST. God can provide a moment of awareness to the potential soul where he is asked if he wants to remain existing. This question applied AFTER he is told his chances are slim and of the existance of hell if he fails.

God can’t know if a person will choose Him until He has created them. God does not deal in “hypotheticals”, much less hypothetical human persons. Once created, all persons MUST exist as persons eternally. God provides what every person needs to choose Him, and those who eternally commit to choosing not-God get not-God, aka hell.

When you get your own Godhood, you can set up the rules as you see fit.

Another point here, our sperm and egg simply set in motion a set of events that create a being. We do not in a sense procreate in the form we were in. The blueprint for recreation was in place before our form was even fully human, creating in effect proto humans for the eventual aware human. We set in motion biological events to bring it about. In the primordial era cells in cooperation perform the functions of protein breakdown as well as other functions, and even now keep us intact. So once again we are inclined to favor this creature, not reject him.

AndyF

Persons are persons at creation, which is at the moment of conception. Any other “thinking” is relativistic nonsense.

There are no “proto-humans”. There is no differentiation in personhood between a so-called “proto-human” and a so-called “aware-human”.

To deny a person his personhood because you don’t think a person is a person because he isn’t “aware enough” is to worshipfully feed Moloch and Ba’al. Is that REALLY what you want to be doing?

 

[Ivan_Muniz]

yes god is all loving and yes we do believe that but we never said that he was just that he is also a just and vengeful god…but really in the end god doesnt send people too hell peoples actions and their edited philosophy about god send them too hell

 

[AndyF]

CatsAndDogs

---

They are precisely one-half the number of the angels and

Where is your source for this.

God can’t know if a person will choose Him until He has created them.

Where is your source for this limitation of Gods. You proved my
point. Possible limitations of God can be found when dealing with some existance issues, but you will recall that in my hypothesis I assumed that he could, therefore you are less liberal to God in this that I am.

To deny a person his personhood because you don’t think a person is a person because he isn’t “aware enough” is to worshipfully feed Moloch and Ba’al. Is that REALLY what you want to be doing?

Interesting question. That would depend on the state of the soul of the asker. If he has severed his end with God. There are many wrong paths.

Open constructive ontological and philosophical discussions are not a sin, nor do they by rule need to conclude to a positive all of the time and at any given point in time. It is obvious you have attained the optimum maturity of your Faith in understanding of everything that needs to be understood and accepted and understand all that once proved difficult for you, so perhaps you should move on and join the enlightened.

When you get your own Godhood, you can set up the rules as you see fit.

Ah!. Now I know how far you have come in your Faith. On second thought stay with us.

AndyF

 

[CatsAndDogs]

CatsAndDogs

---

They are precisely one-half the number of the angels and

Where is your source for this.

newadvent.org/cathen/01594b.htm
…search for some portion of:
“The great dragon is Satan (Genesis 3:1). He is cast out of heaven. With his tail he drags after him one-third of the stars. Taken from Daniel 8:10. The fallen stars are the fallen angels.”

For other references, google: “fallen angels one third”.

God can’t know if a person will choose Him until He has created them.

Where is your source for this limitation of Gods. You proved my
point. Possible limitations of God can be found when dealing with some existance issues, but you will recall that in my hypothesis I assumed that he could, therefore you are less liberal to God in this that I am.

God does not deal in hypotheticals. A “thing” must exist before it can be “dealt with”, and if God “thinks” (for want of a better term) of a “thing” (creature) it comes into being, at which “time” it can never be “uncreated” (as God cannot “uncreate” good things, which of course is all that He CAN create a thing as).

This now-uncreatable thing, if it is a person (human or angelic, though all the angels were created at once back on “angel creation day”), has free will and can choose to not be saved.

So, to sum up, God either creates or doesn’t create things (there are no “provisional creations”) and any time God “thinks” of a thing it IS created (He can’t “think” of a thing without creating it), God doesn’t ever “uncreate”, and all created persons have the free will to not choose God.

To deny a person his personhood because you don’t think a person is a person because he isn’t “aware enough” is to worshipfully feed Moloch and Ba’al. Is that REALLY what you want to be doing?

Interesting question. That would depend on the state of the soul of the asker. If he has severed his end with God. There are many wrong paths.

Open constructive ontological and philosophical discussions are not a sin, nor do they by rule need to conclude to a positive all of the time and at any given point in time. blah blah blah…

It is a simple fact that no person can be denied their personhood for any reason. If one proposes that that is a possibility, then they need to be corrected. I merely corrected an incorrect proposition.

The detail that was corrected was their assumption that personhood is “bestowed” on a (personal) creation some time after conception.

When you get your own Godhood, you can set up the rules as you see fit.

Ah!. Now I know how far you have come in your Faith. On second thought stay with us.

AndyF

Your “propositions”, if “enacted”, would make God not-God. That is an obvious error and unless you could somehow figure out how to be God yourself, your “propositions” are interesting but “not correct”.

But, hey, conjecture away my friend! You should certainly expect to receive “constructive criticism” on your conjectures, though, don’t you think?

 

[Jean_Anthony]

This thread has strayed from the OP. Please take side discussions to new or existing threads. Thank you all.

 

[stillhavntfound]

Jesus dying on the cross said “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” These were people who got to look, with their own eyes, into the face of God (Jesus) and with their own ears, hear God speak and still didn’t get it. They didn’t choose to ignore Him. They didn’t choose to reject Him. They chose to *kill *Him, yet Jesus said “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” We’re people. We’re very limited and flawed. That’s the way we were created. We don’t have transcendental understanding. What can one expect from such a species? I don’t know what kind of game this life is and why we are expected by some to have the wherewithal to make intelligent decisions about eternity, but in light of the opening statement, ultimately everyone would be forgiven for everything by God just as we “normal” humans would forgive a “mentally challenged” human for doing something we deem socially unacceptable because with their limited mental capacity, they simply don’t know any better. End of story.

 

[SonofMonica]

Jesus dying on the cross said “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” These were people who got to look, with their own eyes, into the face of God (Jesus) and with their own ears, hear God speak and still didn’t get it. They didn’t choose to ignore Him. They didn’t choose to reject Him. They chose to *kill *Him, yet Jesus said “Father forgive them for they know not what they do.” We’re people. We’re very limited and flawed. That’s the way we were created. We don’t have transcendental understanding. What can one expect from such a species? I don’t know what kind of game this life is and why we are expected by some to have the wherewithal to make intelligent decisions about eternity, but in light of the opening statement, ultimately everyone would be forgiven for everything by God just as we “normal” humans would forgive a “mentally challenged” human for doing something we deem socially unacceptable because with their limited mental capacity, they simply don’t know any better. End of story.

Quite a profound paragraph you’ve produced here. Much to chew on. Thanks!

 

[SonofMonica]

Quite a profound paragraph you’ve produced here. Much to chew on. Thanks!

Ok, I do have one initial question about your analysis. Taking your paragraph to its logical end, wouldn’t it be better not to evangelize, since once a person becomes aware, they will be judged on how they act? Shouldn’t we keep folks in the dark about Christ, if we are truly concerned about them going to heaven?

 

[Dameedna]

Might I add that people will be argueing that, “God does not send people to hell; they send themselves.” Well there doesen’t have to be a hell in the first place. If God is God, he is the ALL POWERFUL God and therefore hell does not need to exist. Moreover, he should bring his children back to him as intended - God being the alpha and omega; or beginning and end.

Anyone who loves another person WOULD never even consider damming someone into hell for eternity. It’s just not right. And this is what seriously pisses me of about my faith and I’m trying to find a deeper meaning in all this, but I can’t.

This is one of the reasons that people often become athiests. The doctrine of Hell, has no boundaries. No amount of excuses that are given by religious theologians or philosophers does it justice and belief in it, is usually a matter of faith(without thinking about it too much) or it tells us something about the person who really believes it’s possible.

It makes me incredibly sad, when I hear people saying some of the things I’ve read even on this thread. Hell is what we deserve and we are LUCKY to not suffer an eternity. I think anyone that believes this is so far removed from the concept of love that they have had a huge portion of their humanity stripped from them already. They simply don’t think they are worth it. I think they are. This is why athiests often get so angry at religion. It makes people believe they are worthless and not deserving of unconditional love.

If anyone has ever experienced even a small glimmer of this love, you will find Heaven and Hell to be ludicrous and a techinique in manipulation through fear. Something humans are very good at doing to each other(manipulating through fear).

At a certain point in time, some-one chooses love over belief even if that belief offers them an eternal life. This cannot be love, and this God cannot be real. Hence, Athiesm.

I doubt this questioning will deepen your faith. It may force you to choose between love and belief which may lead to a place you do not want to go.(Id’ still recommend going there though ). Hopefully, it’s love for your fellow man you will choose.

Cheers

 

[Dameedna]

god created hell because he loves us. there. shocking intro so i’ve enticed you.

god doesn’t love us and send us to hell, he loves us enough to allow us to go there. because what is hell? the complete and total absence of god. people who spend their lives hating god and hating his will choose to go there. if you hate god or are your own god … what kind of eternity is one in communion with god? now obviously hell isn’t going to be fun, but to these people heaven would be hell.

For the record, most people who do not follow your religion don’t agree with the religion. it isn’t “god” we are disobeying when we do not become or follow christianity or catholicism. It is simply you religion(told to us by humans) we don’t agree with.

God would have been better off never having created mankind, if even one human soul, was going to suffer an eternity.

An eternal hell, is not justice. It is torture. A loving parent will alway’s be willing to accept a child back into their life, once the child makes the choice.

The biggest issue with this doctrine, is the concept of eternity, not punishment because an eternal punishment is no longer about justice. It cannot be. Once Hell is the state for the individual exists in, there is no way to get “back” to God. This is ludicrous to me, given my understanding and experiences of love.

People have made a determination that God sits out of time, therefore the 'state" you are in beyond death, is it. There is no more choice in the matter.

A “good” God, wouldn’t have created us in the first place, if this is where we’d end up.

There is no excuse or justification ever given to me by any believer, that has convinced me otherwise. I think this belief, strips a person of their humanity. It’s most disturbing.

I would suggest , that perhaps the OP(if he/she is still reading) is actually becoming a lot closer to that which is love/Good when you challenge these things. Of course it is no easy task, to challenge a religion you have come to trust and believe. Perhaps your understanding of love has grown beyond that which your religion allows?

 

[tonyrey]

The doctrine of Hell has no boundaries.

False. The doctrine of Hell simply states that we determine our own destiny for better or for worse.

No amount of excuses that are given by religious theologians or philosophers does it justice and belief in it.

False.The doctrine of Hell is based on the fact that justice is not a human invention and evil brings its own punishment. Those who make others suffer will suffer themselves.

I think anyone that believes this is so far removed from the concept of love that they have had a huge portion of their humanity stripped from them already.

True! If we love ourselves more than others we are already in hell!

It makes people believe they are worthless and not deserving of unconditional love.

False. It makes people realize they are infinitely valuable and deserving of unconditional love forever when they love others unconditionally.

If anyone has ever experienced even a small glimmer of this love, you will find Heaven and Hell to be ludicrous and a technique in manipulation through fear.

False. If anyone has ever experienced even a small glimmer of this love he or she is in heaven already!

At a certain point in time, some-one chooses love over belief even if that belief offers them an eternal life.

False! Faith, hope and love all lead to eternal life in heaven.

This cannot be love, and this God cannot be real.

God is Love.

I doubt this questioning will deepen your faith.

False! Questioning deepens everyone’s faith.

It may force you to choose between love and belief which may lead to a place you do not want to go.

False! It may force you to choose between** self-love** and love for others.

. Hopefully, it’s love for your fellow man you will choose.

Amen.

 

[Dameedna]

False. The doctrine of Hell simply states that we determine our own destiny for better or for worse.

How does this show my claim that the doctrine of hell has no boundary false? This is an attempt to justify the doctrine. It does nothing to refute my claim. An eternal punishment, has no boundary.

False.The doctrine of Hell is based on the fact that justice is not a human invention and evil brings its own punishment. Those who make others suffer will suffer themselves.

The doctrine of Hell is not based on any “fact” that justice is not a human invention.

It’s a doctrine and a belief. I do not in any way shape or form believe that “hell” is justice. If you do, then so be it.

But that defines who we are, not what is true or real. You call it justice, I do not.

It is a religious doctrine, not a “fact”.

True! If we love ourselves more than others we are already in hell!

And as a persons love of their fellow man grows, their discomfort of this doctrine also grows.

As to the rest of this post, you aren’t really addressing what I’ve said. So I’ll leave it for now.

I would suggest that we have very different understandings of love and Justice. That’s what this argument usually boils down to. Some people feel that this doctrine is loving and is justice. Other’s do not.

No christian to date, as ever convinced me that this is love or that this even remotely represents justice.

Cheers

 

[tonyrey]

God would have been better off never having created mankind, if even one human soul, was going to suffer an eternity.

God would have been better off never having created mankind, if even one human soul, chooses the misery of having absolute power?

An eternal hell, is not justice. It is torture.

An eternal hell is justice. It is self-torture inflicted by self-love.

A loving parent will always be willing to accept a child back into their life, once the child makes the choice.

Exactly. And children don’t always make that choice!

The biggest issue with this doctrine, is the concept of eternity, not punishment because an eternal punishment is no longer about justice.

Eternal punishment is the logical result of eternal self-love.

Once Hell is the state for the individual exists in, there is no way to get “back” to God.

False! If the individual renounces self-love and chooses to love others that person is no longer in hell.

People have made a determination that God sits out of time, therefore the 'state" you are in beyond death, is it. There is no more choice in the matter.

False. We never lose our freedom.

A “good” God, wouldn’t have created us in the first place, if this is where we’d end up.

Love implies the freedom to choose who to love.

I think this belief, strips a person of their humanity.

To reject heaven and hell strips a person of humanity and leaves a biological machine.

I would suggest , that perhaps the OP(if he/she is still reading) is actually becoming a lot closer to that which is love/Good when you challenge these things.

True! Note that Good is capitalised = God.

Of course it is no easy task, to challenge a religion you have come to trust and believe.

It is essential if it is to be truly yours and not simply something you have inherited.

Perhaps your understanding of love has grown beyond that which your religion allows?

Perhaps your understanding of love has grown beyond that which your religion demands above all else! “Love others as I have loved you”. (Jesus)

 

[Dameedna]

God would have been better off never having created mankind, if even one human soul, chooses the misery of having absolute power?

No, what I said is, a God would be better off never having created humans if even one human was going to suffer eternally. I meant exactly what I said, nothing more nothing less.

If this isn’t clear, then let me add that humans never “chose” to exist. So any “choice” given to us including existance itself and free-will is the ultimate choice of a god.

So my statement still stands.

An eternal hell is justice. It is self-torture inflicted by self-love.

Tonyrey, I know what it is that people believe. I do not agree that this IS love or IS justice. I do not think that you should suffer eternally because you have not accepted Mohammed as the last prophet of God either.

Perhaps your understanding of love has grown beyond that which your religion demands above all else! “Love others as I have loved you”. (Jesus)

I do not agree with any religion that demands I believe such things about love or justice.

Humans can demand anything they want, in terms of religion and claim it is God. I am challenging that claim as do many(especially athiests).

Remember, when we challenge your undertanding and your religion, it isn’t God we are challenging. It is you and your understanding. And you…are not God.

 

[tonyrey]

An eternal punishment, has no boundary.

 

[TheQuestioner]

Honestly, the more I think about it, the angrier I get. I somehow feel called to deepen my understanding of my faith. But some things annoy the blits out of me.

Constantly, God is proclaimed as omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent – and ALL LOVING. God is continually pronounced as all loving and merciful. It’s one of the fundamental core beliefs in Catholicism. I WANT to believe this. But realistically, somebody who damns people to hell is not ALL loving if you ask me…

If a mother has a child. She will love that child forever despite what that child does. Even if her child rapes, murders, steals, bombs cities and whatnot; the mother will continue to LOVE that child forever. Yes, she may be distraught, forever saddened, and angry with her child’s actions – but her love will never cease, and she will always welcome her child into her love. Furthermore, she would not want ANYTHING BAD to happen to her child regardless of the things he has done. WHY? BECAUSE SHE LOVES HIM FOREVER AND HER LOVE WILL NEVER CEASE. This is what love is!

And when I hear such things as, “Thou shalt be condemned in hell and burn forever”, or “Thou shall be engulfed in eternal flames for eternity” – I seriously get angry.

WHO IS MORE LOVING HERE?

The mother who loves her child forever and forgives her child forever and will always welcome her child?

Or

A God who loves ALL; but if they trespass against him he will condemn thee to hell for ETERNITY?

There is no mercy in condemning someone to hell. Even though God forgives sins through the Ministry of the Church, I cannot see how our God can condemn people to hell. No matter who it is, no body deserves to go there. Even if a murderer killed my entire family I would never want him to be in a pit of fire for eternity. It just isn’t right. Plus, looking at the world now, the utmost majority of the world does not follow the word of God, they do not go to Church, they do not confess their sins, and they continually sin throughout their lives. - These people, according to the Bible will go to hell. Moreover, it basically even says if you’re a good and loving person you will still go to hell if you don’t follow the word of Christ. Right…

Might I add that people will be argueing that, “God does not send people to hell; they send themselves.” Well there doesen’t have to be a hell in the first place. If God is God, he is the ALL POWERFUL God and therefore hell does not need to exist. Moreover, he should bring his children back to him as intended - God being the alpha and omega; or beginning and end.

Anyone who loves another person WOULD never even consider damming someone into hell for eternity. It’s just not right. And this is what seriously pisses me of about my faith and I’m trying to find a deeper meaning in all this, but I can’t.

Although the OP does have in improper understanding of hell, i think the main issue here is that the OP actually has an improper understanding of love.

 

[tonyrey]

No, what I said is, a God would be better off never having created humans if even one human was going to suffer eternally.

So the whole human race should be deprived of existence because one person chooses self-love rather than love for others?

I do not agree that this IS love or IS justice.

If you have a child who grows up and rejects you does that mean you are unjust and unloving?

and I do not think that you should suffer eternally because you have not accepted Mohammed as the last prophet of God either.

No one suffers eternally because he or she has not accepted Mohammed, Buddha or Jesus…

I do not agree with any religion that demands I believe such things about love or justice.

I think you would reject every religion anyway…

Humans can demand anything they want, in terms of religion and claim it is God.

They do!

I am challenging that claim as do many (especially atheists).

You have the right to do so if you sincerely believe it is false.

Remember, when we challenge your understanding and your religion, it isn’t God we are challenging. It is you and your understanding. And you…are not God.

Neither are you…

 

[Dameedna]

So the whole human race should be deprived of existence because one person chooses self-love rather than love for others?

Yes. When you love other’s that much, you would rather not ever have existed, than know…they will go to hell. Better me no heaven, than them…and eternal hell. It’s called loving other’s more than yourself.

We are not “worried” about ourselves. We are mostly concerned with those that mess up. When you realize you still love (or at least have the capacity) to love those that do the worst and most dreadful things, you realize a God that would accept a universal condition of a state of hell is something that cannot be real.

Love is too big for this.

Again, us athiests have no problem with “rules”. We have a problem with a god that would punish our fellow man for making the mistake of not following those rules in one , finite lifetime. It’s why we become athiests a lot of the time. This God, cannot love less than us. This God, cannot possibly exist.

Yes, we give up all dreams of an eternal life, because its alternative is for mankind to suffer eternally. Not us, but those…that screw up. Yes…we love THAT much. And we walk away from all that is not loving…especially this doctrine.

With no doctrine presented to us that is more loving, we have no choice other than unbelief.

If you have a child who grows up and rejects you does that mean you are unjust and unloving? No one suffers eternally because he or she has not accepted Mohammed, Buddha or Jesus…

If my child does not love me, it does not mean I am unjust. If I do not choose to give that child as many chances as are necessary to love me back, it would mean I am not loving or just.

imo. And I dont’ mean, IN ONE LIFETIME. I mean, eternally.

Cheers

 

[TheQuestioner]

Daneedna, I think you need to view it like this…

If you had a child there is a chance that, unfortunately, they may grow up to become…well…less than ideal citizens. However if you kept that child at home and did not allow him to be influenced by the outside world the chance is greatly reduced (free will vs. controlled will).

Now if that Child ends up becoming influenced by the world and becomes a criminal you could do two things. You could either protect the child anyway you can (feed him, support him) or you could give him up the the authorities (temporal punishment vs. tolerance).

Now lets say your criminal son decides one day that he wishes to leave the house and go out into the world into a life of crime. You could do two things. You could bar the door shut, tie him to a chair and make sure he can’t move, or you could try hard to convince him what he is doing is a bad idea, but let him make his own decision (forced into heaven vs. free to choose hell).

That is basically what hell is. God loves us so much and he wants us to be happy, but he also gave us free will. We have the choice of walking out on him if we wish. He wont chain us to heaven and never let us leave. Once we die **our **wills are fixed for eternity for him or for the alternative. God does not stop loving you, but since he is love and you reject him, he has created a place that is devoid of love, a place where he is not…hell. In a sick and twisted way, something totally insane (an insanity that cannot possibly exist in heaven) hell exists because we (or at least those who choose to do evil) want it to exist, not because God wants it to.

The punishment for all our sins is hell, even the very little ones. They separate us from God. Through his death and resurrection Jesus has given everyone on earth a ticket to heaven (contrary to the misconception that Jesus got the tickets and gives them only to those who accept him). But when we sin we separate ourselves from God. Think of a venial sin as merely getting the ticker dirty, while a mortal sin is tearing the ticket apart (something we all do from time to time). We have the sacraments to bring us back, but at the end of the day we choose what we choose. People say that a loving God would let everyone into heaven. Well…he has, but people keep ripping their tickets.