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oldcelt
Guest
Either it was always there, or the creator created it. In any case, it was there, the singularity, and it exploded, releasing all the energy and substances that now form and are forming our universe.
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tonyrey
Guest
The real issue is whether God is just and merciful rather than immense, impassive and impersonal. He is devoid of love if He is imperfect…There is a vast difference between “a dense portion of matter” and a “creator force” considering the ensuing development of rational, purposeful activity.
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oldcelt
Guest
Love, justice, mercy, are all human constructs that don’t require the intervention of a deity, IMHO. The creator need not hold any of these qualities to be perfect…another human construct.The real issue is whether God is just and merciful rather than immense, impassive and impersonal. He is devoid of love if He is imperfect…
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tonyrey
Guest
Do you mean love, justice, freedom and mercy are merely human conventions?Love, justice, mercy, are all human constructs that don’t require the intervention of a deity, IMHO. The creator need not hold any of these qualities to be perfect…another human construct.
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oldcelt
Guest
Precisely.Thus, their remarkable inconsistency.Do you mean love, justice, freedom and mercy are merely human conventions?
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tonyrey
Guest
So it doesn’t matter if we exploit, rape, torture and murder people?Precisely.Thus, their remarkable inconsistency.
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oldcelt
Guest
That’s a pretty big leap. They are our concepts, because they are part of a developing civilization.So it doesn’t matter if we exploit, rape, torture and murder people?
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tonyrey
Guest
The issue is whether our concepts are arbitrary or whether they have a rational foundation.So it doesn’t matter if we exploit, rape, torture and murder people?
The term “developing” begs the question. Why should our beliefs be superior to those of criminals? Simply because we don’t want to be exploited, raped, tortured or murdered? There are lots of things we don’t want but it doesn’t follow that we have a right to life, liberty and happiness - particularly if, as you argue, our beliefs lack consistency…
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oldcelt
Guest
As you look through history, it is impossible to miss the developing sense of these sensibilities. The criminals have always been on the losing side because they create disorder. Humans seek order in all things and even rationalize things to believe they are good for order. Just look at the medieval penal system compared to today…very different views on justice and mercy,The issue is whether our concepts are arbitrary or whether they have a rational foundation.
The term “developing” begs the question. Why should our beliefs be superior to those of criminals? Simply because we don’t want to be exploited, raped, tortured or murdered? There are lots of things we don’t want but it doesn’t follow that we have a right to life, liberty and happiness - particularly if, as you argue, our beliefs lack consistency…
Humanity is on an evolutionary course in many ways. Where it will end, who knows?
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