God's Mercy and God's justice

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Aloysium said:
I have issues with the tense used here. I would say, God “knows”.
The present tense would seem preferable given that all creation is “now” for God.
We are created from eternity and in time.
God knows us from outside the time-line that includes our choices of who we wish to be.

:twocents:
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What I was attempting to point out is that even before God creates someone He knows, at least that is what I believe of God.

Not that God only knows when He creates someone but even before God creates someone.

Do you see what I am trying to say?

Question: Since “all creation is “now” for God”, is God still talking to Moses about leading His People out of Egypt?

As far as, “We are created from eternity and in time”, you can look at it that way but I don’t.

I believe that, ultimately, God creates absolutely everything that God creates out of absolutely nothing, not out of “eternity”, whatever that is.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
It has been said that a theologian reveals very little about God, but they reveal more of their own nature
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I would agree with that and also that some “reveal” what theologians before them have “revealed”, which you have already stated what that very well may be.
 
Tom_Baum said:
You wrote, “If you mean that “Judas is definitely damned” please substantiate that it is the teaching of the Catholic Church.”

It was on your post numbered 47 that you wrote, “The obvious answer is that Peter was possessed. It is unreasonable to think he was literally Satan and Judas is definitely damned.”

Did I read it wrong or did you mean that “Judas is definitely damned”?

If I misunderstood what you wrote than I stand corrected but if you meant “Judas is definitely damned”, as you wrote, I was just pointing out that it is not a teaching of the Catholic Church, as I said.

The Catholic Church teaches that some are definitely in heaven with their canonizations but has NEVER declared anyone to be definitely in hell and that is what I was trying to point out.
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Then we agree, Tom! 🙂

It would have been clearer, but rather long-winded, if I had written:

“It is unreasonable to think he was literally Satan just as it is unreasonable to think Judas is definitely damned.”
 
tonyrey said:
The answer is found in the simple but sublime prayer given to us by Jesus:

“Forgive us as we forgive…”
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In the parable, that Jesus spoke, of the one that refuses to forgive a little when he, himself, has been forgiven a lot, it doesn’t say that he will not be released, does it?

There is also the relatively recent “O my Jesus” prayer:

“O my Jesus
forgive us our sins
save us from the fires of hell,
lead all souls to heaven,
especially those who have most need of Your Mercy.”

Sounds pretty catholic to me.

Could be that God has ALL of the bases covered, so to speak.
 
tonyrey said:
Then we agree, Tom! 🙂

It would have been clearer, but rather long-winded, if I had written:

“It is unreasonable to think he was literally Satan just as it is unreasonable to think Judas is definitely damned.”
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Yes and thank you for the response.
 
Tom_Baum said:
Yes and thank you for the response.
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Not literally Satan but could be Satan was tempting Peter - to think as man not as God. Just as Satan entered into Judas can mean Judas agreed with the temptation of satan.
 
opusAquinas said:
Not literally Satan but could be Satan was tempting Peter - to think as man not as God. Just as Satan entered into Judas can mean Judas agreed with the temptation of satan.
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And maybe Judas thinking, along with probably the majority if not all of the rest of the Apostles, that Jesus was going to be a political Messiah, as opposed to a Spiritual Messiah, was attempting to get Jesus to play his Hand, so to speak.
 
Tom_Baum said:
. . . Question: Since “all creation is “now” for God”, is God still talking to Moses about leading His People out of Egypt? . . . I believe that, ultimately, God creates absolutely everything that God creates out of absolutely nothing, not out of “eternity”, whatever that is.
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The idea that all is now for God does not imply that He is still talking to Moses. The term “still” means being present, doing something for an extended period in time.
He talks to Moses in that moment, as He is now with us in this moment and in our last moment, knowing it all and connecting with us, in our here and now, from outside of time.

God simply creates, and He does so as Creator of time, being outside of time, which is what I and others mean by the word eternity, the Now with no beginning and no end, encompassing all time.
 
Aloysium said:
The idea that all is now for God does not imply that He is still talking to Moses. The term “still” means being present, doing something for an extended period in time.
He talks to Moses in that moment, as He is now with us in this moment and in our last moment, knowing it all and connecting with us, in our here and now, from outside of time.

God simply creates, and He does so as Creator of time, being outside of time, which is what I and others mean by the word eternity, the Now with no beginning and no end, encompassing all time.
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Then, how is he omnipresent?
 
Tom_Baum said:
In the parable, that Jesus spoke, of the one that refuses to forgive a little when he, himself, has been forgiven a lot, it doesn’t say that he will not be released, does it?

There is also the relatively recent “O my Jesus” prayer:

“O my Jesus
forgive us our sins
save us from the fires of hell,
lead all souls to heaven,
especially those who have most need of Your Mercy.”

Sounds pretty catholic to me.

Could be that God has ALL of the bases covered, so to speak.
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👍 The best answer is given by Jesus:
“For it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” And they that heard it, said: Who then can be saved %between%He said to them: “The things that are impossible with men, are possible with God”.
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Luke 18:25
 
tonyrey said:
Can we understand how God creates the universe from nothing? 🙂
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Obviously, not an answer to my question. However, I will answer yours.
The universe, to the best of our current knowledge, did not come from nothing. Rather, it came from a remarkably dense portion of matter that exploded. I believe that the creator force was the first cause.
Now, how about that omnipresent issue and this notion that God exists out of time?
 
oldcelt said:
Can we understand how
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There is a vast difference between “a dense portion of matter” and a “creator force” considering the ensuing development of rational, purposeful activity.
Now, how about that omnipresent issue and this notion that God exists out of time?
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Omnipresence is the logical implication of creation ex nihilo. Sustaining power is implied in the continued existence of the universe - as you seemed to agree in a previous post - rather than a flick of an “ontological switch”. The immense complexity, richness and beauty of nature on this planet (and probably elsewhere) also imply a degree of creative insight incomparably greater than that any Nobel laureate. The fact that even we minute creatures have the power of hindsight and foresight is powerful evidence that God transcends both time and space. There is no obvious reason to impose arbitrary limits on the Creator of all that exists. To do so is reminiscent of the book Your God is Too Small…
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tonyrey said:
There is a vast difference between “a dense portion of matter” and a “creator force” considering the ensuing development of rational, purposeful activity.

Omnipresence is the logical implication of creation ex nihilo. Sustaining power is implied in the continued existence of the universe - as you seemed to agree in a previous post - rather than a flick of an “ontological switch”. The immense complexity, richness and beauty of nature on this planet (and probably elsewhere) also imply a degree of creative insight incomparably greater than that any Nobel laureate. The fact that even we minute creatures have the power of hindsight and foresight is powerful evidence that God transcends both time and space. There is no obvious reason to impose arbitrary limits on the Creator of all that exists. To do so is reminiscent of the book Your God is Too Small…
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My God is every bit as immense as yours…he just doesn’t major in the minor. The subsequent evolution of intelligent life does not require a plan by the creator…only the action of creation. All else followed and continues to follow with no intervention needed. Further, if the Christian God transcends time, then he is also present in that time…that’s what omnipresence means…presences everywhere at all times.
 
Aloysium said:
The idea that all is now for God does not imply that He is still talking to Moses. The term “still” means being present, doing something for an extended period in time.
He talks to Moses in that moment, as He is now with us in this moment and in our last moment, knowing it all and connecting with us, in our here and now, from outside of time.

God simply creates, and He does so as Creator of time, being outside of time, which is what I and others mean by the word eternity, the Now with no beginning and no end, encompassing all time.
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As far as, “which is what I and others mean by the word eternity, the Now with no beginning and no end, encompassing all time”

I can NOT give a definition for eternity but I do NOT believe that the definition would be “the Now with no beginning and no end, encompassing all time”

And this is for the simple reason that I believe “time” is part of God’s creation and eternity is NOT part of God’s creation.

I think of God as being outside of time, eternity, but that God can “view” at any place along the time/space line or even enter time at any now along the “time and space” line, for lack of a better way of describing it, and also that God does “know” just what is now and past and future since time, not just space, is very much a part of God’s creation.

I happen to believe that God can “view” the past but that God can NOT change the past since that is how, I believe, God created God’s creation.

As a matter of fact, if one believes in the Incarnation, than one believes that God became a “part” of God’s creation at a very specific time and place.
 
tonyrey said:
👍 The best answer is given by Jesus:

Luke 18:25
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Which you wrote as, "“For it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” And they that heard it, said: Who then can be saved He said to them: “The things that are impossible with men, are possible with God”. "

As you pointed out what Jesus said, ““The things that are impossible with men, are possible with God”.”

And plenty seem to come up with the “impossibility” of God’s salvation being for more than a “few”.

This isn’t the only thing written in the bible that seems quite “hopeful”, Jesus also said, “When I am lifted up, I WILL draw ALL men to Myself”.
 
oldcelt said:
Obviously, not an answer to my question. However, I will answer yours.
The universe, to the best of our current knowledge, did not come from nothing. Rather, it came from a remarkably dense portion of matter that exploded. I believe that the creator force was the first cause.
Now, how about that omnipresent issue and this notion that God exists out of time?
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You wrote concerning the universe, “Rather, it came from a remarkably dense portion of matter that exploded.”

Where did this “remarkably dense portion of matter” come from or was it always there?
 
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