Going to hell for leaving the Catholic church

[KC91]

KC, am I correct you are applying this judgment to no longer fully practicing Catholics even if they no longer still believe all of what the Catholic Church teaches?

Yes

If for instance in your example someone who like me no longer believes missing Mass on Nov 1 is a mortal sin just because one resides in the US and the US bishops declare it so while the Canadians do not.

The Bishops are succesors of the Apostles and their actions must be obeyed unless their actions are heretical.

Or what if someone were to no longer believe you must confess to a priest or be anointed by a priest or someone who might no longer believe in purgatory? So they do not confess to a priest and are not anointed by one just before they die, you are saying that person goes to hell?

The sacraments are perfectly valid as long as the Priest is valid even if the Priest has some ‘weird’ opinions or is a bad man.

What about a Catholic who attends or even actually joins a non-Catholic church?

Apostasy

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Hi Annabelle,
First of all, I don’t drink so I don’t have a wine collection! LOL
Of course I would never disagree with you that there are judgmental people in all walks of life, in all areas of faith, in all denominations. That’s a given. I’m not precisely discussing being judgmental so much as towing the line, completely adhering 100% to dogma or else you’re labelled “cafeteria” or a sell-out, or not serious. Protestants, for example, don’t try to usually regulate all areas of the bedroom, fasts, obligation days, sexuality to such a high degree, determine who may get annulments and who should stay married, etc. There is guilt in Protestantism and Catholicism and a lot of false notions on both sides but, as an Anglican, I never saw this type of talk. They’d disagree with Catholicism but were very gracious about it and we were allowed to agree with the Pope without being labelled a papist or sell-out or cafeteria Anglican. I have often spoken to my rector about how I feel about Mary, my love for John Paul II, my appreciation for the Catholic views on several subjects, and my sacramentarian views on so many things and he as well as the other priests, deacons, and lay folks were always respectful and encouraged me to hold those beliefs despite their devotion to the 39 Articles.

I think there are Baptists and other denominations that might preach the hell fire brimstone express and be anti-Catholic but as for regulating so much of your life and keeping you adhering to a code that cannot be broken or else you be labelled, that I’ve only experienced in here at CAF!

Are you honestly saying that there is not judgement and disapproval from different Protestant folks? That this only a Catholic thing? Cause I’ve faced plenty for not believing what different Protestant churches believe and teach. Although knowing what that is sometimes is ALL over the board! Try having a small group study at your house next to your wine collection…

I however have not faced that in my local Catholic church since coming home…

 

[Cinette]

Unfortunately humans are very fallible, we are sinners, do i need to remind you of the child abuse at the hand of some priests?
The crusades?
The inquisition? Some of the most amazing and diabolical torture devices originated from the church?
How about the changing of the biblical sabath saturday to sun-day? Even Rome cannot say it has biblical authority.biblelight.net/st-cath.htmplease read the above internet link…

So the examples i gave are facts, how can you tell me that those actions are endorsed by the God that gave us the bible? To burn people to the stake for the sheer belief that the earth was round and not flat as it was then endorsed by Rome! Do you follow? No one on earth is perfect Satan has proved that through his deception (Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. ) Satan plays on our weakness, he is very good at twisting things.

I believe as per bible that we are mortal, and we as men and women sin, a church or country is made of men and women. As per what the bible says and not man, God judges us according to our works - Eze 24:14 I the LORD have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord GOD.

May God bless us all

You must go and take another look at the history books. Please do. Your powers of analyses are flawed. You obviously place a great deal of importance on hype and buy into the lies propogated by certain media.

Can’t engage with you on that basis - sorry!

 

[CMatt25]

as an Anglican, I never saw this type of talk. They’d disagree with Catholicism but were very gracious about it and we were allowed to agree with the Pope without being labelled a papist or sell-out or cafeteria Anglican. I have often spoken to my rector about how I feel about Mary, my love for John Paul II, my appreciation for the Catholic views on several subjects, and my sacramentarian views on so many things and he as well as the other priests, deacons, and lay folks were always respectful and encouraged me to hold those beliefs despite their devotion to the 39 Articles.

I think there are Baptists and other denominations that might preach the hell fire brimstone express and be anti-Catholic but as for regulating so much of your life and keeping you adhering to a code that cannot be broken or else you be labelled, that I’ve only experienced in here at CAF!

:sad_yes:

But I’ve decided the title of this thread is somewhat a misnomer. I now know who the Church says is going to hell based on what KC has posted. Poster Roman Catholic seems to take a different position on those who still no longer believe.

But you can really never completely leave acccording to the Church.

1. **It remains clear, in any event, that the sacramental bond of belonging to the Body of Christ that is the Church, conferred by the baptismal character, is an ontological and permanent bond which is not lost by reason of any act **or fact of defection.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/intrptxt/documents/rc_pc_intrptxt_doc_20060313_actus-formalis_en.html

And even ecommunicated Catholics are still Catholic according to the Church.

Peace.

 

[Loboto-Me]

Ok, I don’t know if I can express my thoughts properly, but I’ll give it a try

In the Catholic Church we have a set of precepts that need to be followed, we also have a book that explains the ins and outs of our beliefs.

We know that the Church was established by Christ and through apostolic succession, is still on earth to this day.

Let’s say I as a Catholic don’t believe in the trinity, yet I know that the Church teaches us that we need to believe in it. Let’s say I also don’t believe in the sacrament of repentance but I know that the Church teaches it.

Now let’s say that because I don’t believe in either of those, I go around telling everyone I know that it’s ok not to believe those “superfluous ideas” and continue going to Mass and receiving every week. I come onto a forum like this, with the same attitude too.

I start posting and saying things like “There’s no Trinity because the bible doesn’t say it” “I only have to confess to God, man doesn’t need to hear my sins to be forgiven” and when I get some answers back, I fight tooth and nail against their ideas, yet continue to go to Mass, oblivious to everyone around me.

Now, let’s say instead, I don’t believe in those, but shut my mouth and try my darndest to understand why the Church is teaching this? I still can’t get my head around it but knowing that the Church teaches, I don’t spread what I believe are “superfluous ideas” in order not to lead anyone else off their Catholic path.

I come to a forum like this, and start posting things like this " Guys, I’m Catholic but I’m having a hard time accepting the teaching of Trinity and Confession, can you guys break it down for me and help me out?" I try to learn from others through forums and through searching for answers, and even in my unbelief, I continue to go to Mass.

What is a Catholic in either one of these situations supposed to do? Continue to follow the precepts of the Church (shut up about the trinity, and go to confession at least once a year) and pray earnestly for understanding and grace.

The Cafeteria Catholic is, in my opinion better off leaving the Church rather than bring others down with them, although they are in danger of losing their salvation if they fully understand what the Church really is.

I don’t know if I used the right words to explain myself properly but this is the best I could do.

 

[CMatt25]

Ok, I don’t know if I can express my thoughts properly, but I’ll give it a try

In the Catholic Church we have a set of precepts that need to be followed, we also have a book that explains the ins and outs of our beliefs.

We know that the Church was established by Christ and through apostolic succession, is still on earth to this day.

Let’s say I as a Catholic don’t believe in the trinity, yet I know that the Church teaches us that we need to believe in it. Let’s say I also don’t believe in the sacrament of repentance but I know that the Church teaches it.

Now let’s say that because I don’t believe in either of those, I go around telling everyone I know that it’s ok not to believe those “superfluous ideas” and continue going to Mass and receiving every week. I come onto a forum like this, with the same attitude too.

I start posting and saying things like “There’s no Trinity because the bible doesn’t say it” “I only have to confess to God, man doesn’t need to hear my sins to be forgiven” and when I get some answers back, I fight tooth and nail against their ideas, yet continue to go to Mass, oblivious to everyone around me.

Now, let’s say instead, I don’t believe in those, but shut my mouth and try my darndest to understand why the Church is teaching this? I still can’t get my head around it but knowing that the Church teaches, I don’t spread what I believe are “superfluous ideas” in order not to lead anyone else off their Catholic path.

I come to a forum like this, and start posting things like this " Guys, I’m Catholic but I’m having a hard time accepting the teaching of Trinity and Confession, can you guys break it down for me and help me out?" I try to learn from others through forums and through searching for answers, and even in my unbelief, I continue to go to Mass.

What is a Catholic in either one of these situations supposed to do? Continue to follow the precepts of the Church (shut up about the trinity, and go to confession at least once a year) and pray earnestly for understanding and grace.

The Cafeteria Catholic is, in my opinion better off leaving the Church rather than bring others down with them, although they are in danger of losing their salvation if they fully understand what the Church really is.

I don’t know if I used the right words to explain myself properly but this is the best I could do.

Yes but are they going to hell? KC for one has been forthright with his or her views. But what I don’t get is why we don’t have a consensus on who the Church says is going to hell. Everything else about what the Church says seems to have a yes or no answer on CAF.

If someone asks me if I believe in closed communion my answer is no. But if someone asks me if the Church believes in closed communion then my answer is yes.

If someone asks if I believe someone is certainly going to hell who fully knew the Church and was once a fully practicing Catholic but then has a change in beliefs unless they repent their beliefs, my answer is no. I do not presume to know God’s judgment of any soul. But what does the Church say? Yes or no?

 

[Loboto-Me]

I think all the Church ever says on that subject is that there is DANGER of hell or perdition. I don’t think the Church has ever definitively said someone WILL go to hell. The Church although can say that such and such an action can lead to perdition, She doesn’t claim to read the hearts of people and know if the people have repented at the last moment.

I think your problem is that you’re stacking all your eggs in KC’s basket. You’re focussing too much on what one Catholic thinks at the detriment of weighing in what all the CCC teaches, or even what most of the other Catholics state in their posts. Take the neon lights away from KC’s posts and measure them in with what on the average what you’ve learned from CAF so far. I’m not talking about the Hell and Brimstone Catholics I’m talking about the knowledgeable catholics here, and also the CCC.

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Hi Annabelle,
Of course I would never disagree with you that there are judgmental people in all walks of life, in all areas of faith, in all denominations. That’s a given. I’m not precisely discussing being judgmental so much as towing the line, completely adhering 100% to dogma or else you’re labelled “cafeteria” or a sell-out, or not serious. Protestants, for example, don’t try to usually regulate all areas of the bedroom, fasts, obligation days, sexuality to such a high degree, determine who may get annulments and who should stay married, etc. There is guilt in Protestantism and Catholicism and a lot of false notions on both sides but, as an Anglican, I never saw this type of talk. They’d disagree with Catholicism but were very gracious about it and we were allowed to agree with the Pope without being labelled a papist or sell-out or cafeteria Anglican. I have often spoken to my rector about how I feel about Mary, my love for John Paul II, my appreciation for the Catholic views on several subjects, and my sacramentarian views on so many things and he as well as the other priests, deacons, and lay folks were always respectful and encouraged me to hold those beliefs despite their devotion to the 39 Articles.

I think there are Baptists and other denominations that might preach the hell fire brimstone express and be anti-Catholic but as for regulating so much of your life and keeping you adhering to a code that cannot be broken or else you be labelled, that I’ve only experienced in here at CAF!

 

[Jimmy_B]

I was raised Catholic, am now in my early 20’s, and have recently made the decision to leave the Catholic church. I was curious about what the Catholic church itself would say about me leaving, and according to the Catechism, someone who has full knowledge of the church’s mission, beliefs etc, and then leaves the Catholic church, will not achieve salvation. It sounds like I’m going to hell.

This seems kind of weird. I suppose I can understand how the Catholic church got so big if it has a “you go to hell if you leave” clause in the Catechism.

Thoughts?

Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC)

2089

*Incredulity *is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. “*Heresy *is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; ***apostasy ***is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; *schism *is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to
him.”

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

Hi Annabelle,
First of all, I don’t drink so I don’t have a wine collection! LOL
Of course I would never disagree with you that there are judgmental people in all walks of life, in all areas of faith, in all denominations. That’s a given. I’m not precisely discussing being judgmental so much as towing the line, completely adhering 100% to dogma or else you’re labelled “cafeteria” or a sell-out, or not serious. Protestants, for example, don’t try to usually regulate all areas of the bedroom, fasts, obligation days, sexuality to such a high degree, determine who may get annulments and who should stay married, etc. Lucky for you. I have found this…first of all fasts…seriously two days…really not all that hard. But I have run across a lot of Protestants in my 20 some years that have their own ideals and judgements–maybe it’s not collectively like the Catholic Church but it IS out there–and dangerous because it’s only based on their opinion. There is a lot of judgment in Protestant churchs as well… There is guilt in Protestantism and Catholicism and a lot of false notions on both sides but, as an Anglican, I never saw this type of talk. They’d disagree with Catholicism but were very gracious about it and we were allowed to agree with the Pope without being labelled a papist or sell-out or cafeteria Anglican. I have often spoken to my rector about how I feel about Mary, my love for John Paul II, my appreciation for the Catholic views on several subjects, and my sacramentarian views on so many things and he as well as the other priests, deacons, and lay folks were always respectful and encouraged me to hold those beliefs despite their devotion to the 39 Articles. Wow–lucky for you…I have found it to be so in my 20 some years in the Protestant arena…not so lucky for me

I think there are Baptists and other denominations that might preach the hell fire brimstone express and be anti-Catholic but as for regulating so much of your life and keeping you adhering to a code that cannot be broken or else you be labelled, that I’ve only experienced in here at CAF! Again–lucky for you–I have been labelled under the other demoniations as such for drinking, because I don’t speak in tongues, because I don’t want to pray out loud, because I didn’t go to church on Sunday, and they have been VERY focused on money! For me–it’s been very hurtful to the point where I just didn’t go to church at all for 2 years–until I have found my way back to the Catholic Church. People can label me what they want now…I know my heart and God knows my heart. Of course the Church does help me to examine myself and make sure I’m being truly honest in so many areas. I have yet to find the judgement in the Catholic Church that I found in the Protestant Church’s–and I haven’t heard anyone so far speak negativly against the Protestants.

God Bless!

 

[CMatt25]

Annabelle Marie, some Protestants I am sure can be judgmental. Gurney pointed this out. He also pointed out his Anglican communion for instance not so much. I know other denominations as well that are not so judgmental. But I’m trying to find out if the Catholic Church says who is going to hell. That’s why I’m not talking about the Protestants. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

I think all the Church ever says on that subject is that there is DANGER of hell or perdition. I don’t think the Church has ever definitively said someone WILL go to hell. The Church although can say that such and such an action can lead to perdition, She doesn’t claim to read the hearts of people and know if the people have repented at the last moment.

I think your problem is that you’re stacking all your eggs in KC’s basket. You’re focussing too much on what one Catholic thinks at the detriment of weighing in what all the CCC teaches, or even what most of the other Catholics state in their posts. Take the neon lights away from KC’s posts and measure them in with what on the average what you’ve learned from CAF so far. I’m not talking about the Hell and Brimstone Catholics I’m talking about the knowledgeable catholics here, and also the CCC.

Ok so I’ll take this to mean you’re not a Hell and Brimstone Catholic and you’re saying when the Church says one could not be saved or something can lead to perdition, that She actually means might not be saved. Doesn’t mean can not. And means might lead to perdition. But not necessarily so.

What needs to be repented at the last moment by someone who once did but no longer believes everything is questionable to me though. Why would someone repent something they no longer believe? And if they once did but no longer do and do not repent, does that mean they are going to hell?

 

[eucharisteo]

I take it from you since you are ex-Protestant.

I heard their argument that the differences are not denominations. Then they mention in some cases it’s no less different than when Catholics disagree on certain doctrine and yet still Catholics. My personal take is that I agree with you and with other Catholics who say that we cannot compare denominations with Catholics who personally disagree with some Catholic doctrines. These Catholics do not leave the Church while the Protestants counterparts leave their denominations and start new ones.

Nevertheless they are adamant that figures like 30,000 are very much inflated. By that they already admitted the splintering in Protestantism.

If you are sure there are actually 45000 Protestant denominations (the figure quoted by the poster I commented on), then by all means go ahead and say so. You have to provide data and evidence though.

The reason why I personally do not go along this line of argument is because I am not sure about that figure and so far none that I can see have come up with a respectable data. And then you hear denial by Protestants. But ultimately, does it make any difference? None whatsoever. They are splintered; 10 are too many and we know there are more than ten. So what else is there to say except that there are divisions among them.

I wish I could have the actual figure and settle this once and for all.

There are core beliefs among mainstream Protestant denominations. Frankly, I loath the term “denomination” for several reasons I won’t go into now. But if an ecclesial community calls itself a non-denomination, it is not the same non-denomination as another non-denomination ecclesial community. They are not truly in communion with each other. Just this alone could easily change the statistics. I have seen huge changes in ecclesial communities just since my birth. I could name of many right off the bat. Just within my previous faith I can identify 3 main groups, yet within each group relative perspectives are taken into consideration. A conservative church might view another conservative group as too liberal. Yet a mainstream or moderate ecclesial community would view them as very conservative or ante. I do get what you mean. But when you go by the definition of the communion you get into a different type of analogy. So I get what you are saying. I’ve also heard a lot of rubbish from extremist Catholics, meaning well, but say crazy things regarding, for example, sterilization. I heard someone say that a woman who gets sterilized does not produce pheromones no longer attract men. That falls under absolute ignorance and even though they mean well they make the rest of us look like ignorant uneducated people. So in comparison I get where you are coming from.

 

[Reuben_J]

There are core beliefs among mainstream Protestant denominations. Frankly, I loath the term “denomination” for several reasons I won’t go into now. But if an ecclesial community calls itself a non-denomination, it is not the same non-denomination as another non-denomination ecclesial community. They are not truly in communion with each other. Just this alone could easily change the statistics. I have seen huge changes in ecclesial communities just since my birth. I could name of many right off the bat. Just within my previous faith I can identify 3 main groups, yet within each group relative perspectives are taken into consideration. A conservative church might view another conservative group as too liberal. Yet a mainstream or moderate ecclesial community would view them as very conservative or ante. I do get what you mean. But when you go by the definition of the communion you get into a different type of analogy. So I get what you are saying. I’ve also heard a lot of rubbish from extremist Catholics, meaning well, but say crazy things regarding, for example, sterilization. I heard someone say that a woman who gets sterilized does not produce pheromones no longer attract men. That falls under absolute ignorance and even though they mean well they make the rest of us look like ignorant uneducated people. So in comparison I get where you are coming from.

I am a cradle Catholic brought up in a very Catholic family and environment; most of my younger days were quite shielded from any other religious influence. So my knowledge of other denominations of Christianity is not first hand. As an adult I began to include non-Catholic friends through acquaintances and secular profession. These people are nice but religious differences are never seriously debated though. I wish I could have conversion experience like some of you; it would be something to glorify about then.

Nevertheless, I strongly think that Protestantism is not what the Lord wants. If Catholicism is wrong, then they (Protestantism) are going from bad to worse. The Lord cannot have too many different messages. If all of them claim to be right, then who is right? It cannot be all of them since they differ from each other. If Protestants claim the Holy Spirit guided them, then why did the Holy Spirit speak in different voices?

Many of our fellow Catholics who are former Protestants, including your good self, are quite unanimous in saying that there is something like more than 30,000 Protestants denominations out there. From my Catholic psyche this is unimaginable, that is why Protestants counter argument is quite persuasive. In any case if I quote figure like that then my source therefore would be purely from Catholics and not from Protestants, which I thought would not be fair enough.

Thanks for sharing.

God bless.

 

[eucharisteo]

I am a cradle Catholic brought up in a very Catholic family and environment; most of my younger days were quite shielded from any other religious influence. So my knowledge of other denominations of Christianity is not first hand. As an adult I began to include non-Catholic friends through acquaintances and secular profession. These people are nice but religious differences are never seriously debated though. I wish I could have conversion experience like some of you; it would be something to glorify about then.

Nevertheless, I strongly think that Protestantism is not what the Lord wants. If Catholicism is wrong, then they (Protestantism) are going from bad to worse. The Lord cannot have too many different messages. If all of them claim to be right, then who is right? It cannot be all of them since they differ from each other. If Protestants claim the Holy Spirit guided them, then why did the Holy Spirit speak in different voices?

Many of our fellow Catholics who are former Protestants, including your good self, are quite unanimous in saying that there is something like more than 30,000 Protestants denominations out there. From my Catholic psyche this is unimaginable, that is why Protestants counter argument is quite persuasive. In any case if I quote figure like that then my source therefore would be purely from Catholics and not from Protestants, which I thought would not be fair enough.

Thanks for sharing.

God bless.

I see your valid point. You should feel BLESSED! that God has graced you with growing up “very Catholic”. The gift he gave you is remarkable. I envy you. Conversion, though exciting and all, is wonderful, however you have to remember that we are going from not knowing to finally knowing. The lack of community in ones conversion makes conversion all that much more difficult - lonely. What keeps us moving is our new founded relationship with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit and all the Angles and Saints. We turn to them for intercession because they become our new family. We lost family and friends, not to mention validation from them, when we converted. Our reputation plummeted considerable and now they do not listen to anything we say. My personal relationships with immediate family alone has been quite costly growing up.

Be joyful you were not subjected to the living hell on earth. We are to seek peace, which does not mean one will be happy on earth but rather joyful in the gift of knowing truth in God. Being happy is a side effect that graces us once and a while if we’re fortunate. Those that seem happy are either faking it or experiencing the joy of God. A true Christian experiences hardship even among his fellow Catholics. Protestants are greatly ignorant and do not even realize it nor do they want to admit it because it would draw them closer to God in the form of realizing the lack of truth in what they have held on to their entire life. It’s actually a desperate act of faith. Who can blame them? I certainly do not. I prayed for knowledge of the truth all my life, not to be strong in what I was taught as much as to know the real truth. That made a major difference in my life. I came close to not believing in God because there were so many nuances involved in the experience. This is NOT something you should envy because it makes life very difficult for us.

Our children are at risk because we are their only Catholic family. I fear for them since they do not have the support system that you have present. That is one reason I hope they choose priestly or religious life. We tried to put them in Catholic schools, but the atmosphere was not a good example for them and the non-Catholic influence in there was discouraging at best.

We see many fallen away Catholics that become the worst anti-Catholics. Though I am considered a “revert” I grew up non-Catholic and secular at best with an anti-Catholic slant on my mom’s side. My dad’s Catholic side was stumbling at best. So I did not have good influence in my life. I don’t even know what a p;roper family looks like other than by example of my Protestant grandparents. They have been my model all my life. And it was very hard becoming Catholic all over again when I see so many Catholics not taking their faith as serious as we did in our previous Protestant faith, which we did not consider Protestant at the time.

My wife’s conversion or falling away came first. Mine was a miracle and then so was her as I went through this major conversion she began to study the Catholic teachings of the Church and said it made sense to her. Once she said that she had been studying about Mary and her role and said it made sense to her. In a state of shock, because I didn’t even get it, I asked her explain it to me. Her 2 minute explanation made more sense to me than any prior teaching I had ever learned as a young Catholic once who claimed to get it, but secretly was ashamed to admit I didn’t really understand. I tried but I stuck to the words in their defense and once I realized I was hanging on to pride rather than knowledge and understanding I crumbled nearly over night. That is why I stick to my gun that most Catholics do NOT really know what they are leaving. If they did they wouldn’t even remain Christian.

 

[kristine105]

Hi Kristine,
I see you’re from Manila. Awesome. My wife, three kids, and I will be coming to Manila June 6th. My wife is from Baguio. We’re coming to the Phils for a month. Can hardly wait!

Great~! I hope you’ll find Philippines well!

 

[CONFUSED1111]

Jesus said that everyone who BELIEVED in HIM would be saved.
I think that all Christians, with their heart open to Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Mary, will be saved…
10 commandments are the very core of the moral Law. Obey 10 commandments, love Christ and let Him guide your life and you’ll be saved.

I do not approve so much INTOLERANCE that exists between CHRISTIANS.
I do not approve KILLING, so many times ENCOURAGED by the Church authorities.

Example:

During the war in Croatia (1991-1995) between Croats (Catholic) and Serbs (Orthodox), priests from both sides were blessing weapons. Each side felt “endangered”. As a result of such Churches’es behaviour, thousands of innocent people were killed…many others suffered and many still have been suffering…

Now, you tell me…Does the behaviour of the Catholic Church, encouraging bloody war, was really in accordance with Jesus’es words (If someone slap your cheek, turn to him another one- free interpretation)? Is God’s commandment not: DO NOT KILL?

Has anyone of the Jesus’es apostles ever been violent? Has any one of them tried to kill someone? Has anyone of them killed someone, indeed?

These are questions that cannot be properly answered by the Catholic Church. If it tries to, it has to negate DIRECT INSTRUCTIONS OF JESUS (NT). Sorry, I’m not pleased with some of the Catholic Church teachings.

Important: I’m not anti- Catholic. I strongly believe that Jesus and the Holy Spirit lead this Church. This Church has been founded on the Holy ground. But, I’m also almost sure that Satan has his followers deeply positioned within the Catholic Church formal organisation…

 

[distracted]

Most Catholics who leave the Catholic Church leave because they have come to the conclusion that the Catholic Church is not the church Christ started as described in the New Testament. They leave because they believe that the Catholic Church teaches doctrines that are not supported by scripture (for example purgatory, indulgences, transubstantiation, perpetual virginity of Mary, assumption of Mary. etc.). Do you honestly believe these sincere followers of Christ, who are no longer Catholic, are destined for hell because they left the Catholic Church?

for one thing, how do you know why most Catholics leave the Church?

I heard tht most leave cuz they aren’t in conformity with one or more teachings… like birth control… Even the ones who stay dont believe in the ban on artif b control

in any case, if you study history you will find that that there was ONE Church established by Christ and that it is the roman Catholic Church… If you read the early Church fathers, you will discover that the Church back then was very Catholic… Eucharist… etc…

so if the Catholic Church is the one Christ established on EArth and it cannot fail… (“I will build my Church and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it” St Mt 16:18)

how can there be any other Church?

and how is it that people dont believe what that Church teaches?

If the Church Christ established has failed (apostatized) then Jesus didn’t keep HIs promise…

is that the kind of Jesus you believ in?

 

[PJM]

=Redman1986;6581480]I was raised Catholic, am now in my early 20’s, and have recently made the decision to leave the Catholic church. I was curious about what the Catholic church itself would say about me leaving, and according to the Catechism, someone who has full knowledge of the church’s mission, beliefs etc, and then leaves the Catholic church, will not achieve salvation. It sounds like I’m going to hell.

This seems kind of weird. I suppose I can understand how the Catholic church got so big if it has a “you go to hell if you leave” clause in the Catechism.

Thoughts?

Is God’s position sufficient?

Heb.6 Verses 4 to 10: "For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, [chosen by God for His CC] who have tasted the heavenly gift, [Eucharist[/COLOR]] and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, [Confirmed in the Catholic Faith] and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, [By those empowered by God to understand and share His Word; His CC] ***if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned. ***

**Eph. 2:19 **So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, [SINGULAR] built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; [SINGULAR ]in whom you also are built into it for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit."

****Eph. 4: 4 “****There is one body [One Church] and one Spirit, [One set of beliefs] just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, [One Triune God] one faith, [One set of doctrine and dogma and Tradition] one baptism, [By water in the Trinity] 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. Therefore it is said, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.”

Mt. 16: 15 He [Jesus] said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I [singular[/COLOR]] tell you, you are Peter, [singular] and on this rock [singular] I will build my [singular] church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. [singular] 19 I God singular] will give you [singular] the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you [singular] bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Yep, you sure are. And it’s alot easier an more fun tha working to get to have. So enjoy it while you:blush: can.

Take Up your Cross and Follow Me

**Phil.2: 8 **“And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross **Luke.9 :23 **And he said to all, “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. *Mark.8: 34 And he called to him the multitude with his disciples, and said to them, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. And he said to all, "If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke.14: 7 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me, cannot be my disciple.” Matt.5: 19 “Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. “ Matt.19: 17 “And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” ***

God gave you a mind, intellct, freewill and soul and lets YOU decide where you’ll endup.
Qunatify for us your mind: what shape, color, size ect. is it? Not BRAIN; MIND. You can’t because they are spiritual gifts from God to be used to find Him or to ignore Him and choose hell.Look up Isaiah 43 vs. 7 and 21.

Love and prayers kiddo,
Pat

 

[fkjuliano]

Jesus said that everyone who BELIEVED in HIM would be saved.
I think that all Christians, with their heart open to Jesus, the Holy Spirit and Mary, will be saved…
10 commandments are the very core of the moral Law. Obey 10 commandments, love Christ and let Him guide your life and you’ll be saved.

I do not approve so much INTOLERANCE that exists between CHRISTIANS.
I do not approve KILLING, so many times ENCOURAGED by the Church authorities.

Example:

During the war in Croatia (1991-1995) between Croats (Catholic) and Serbs (Orthodox), priests from both sides were blessing weapons. Each side felt “endangered”. As a result of such Churches’es behaviour, thousands of innocent people were killed…many others suffered and many still have been suffering…

Now, you tell me…Does the behaviour of the Catholic Church, encouraging bloody war, was really in accordance with Jesus’es words (If someone slap your cheek, turn to him another one- free interpretation)? Is God’s commandment not: DO NOT KILL?

Has anyone of the Jesus’es apostles ever been violent? Has any one of them tried to kill someone? Has anyone of them killed someone, indeed?

These are questions that cannot be properly answered by the Catholic Church. If it tries to, it has to negate DIRECT INSTRUCTIONS OF JESUS (NT). Sorry, I’m not pleased with some of the Catholic Church teachings.

Important: I’m not anti- Catholic. I strongly believe that Jesus and the Holy Spirit lead this Church. This Church has been founded on the Holy ground. But, I’m also almost sure that Satan has his followers deeply positioned within the Catholic Church formal organisation…

A few priests in a war zone feeling compelled to give moral support to their parishioners by blessing them before battle is very different from the Catholic Church “encouraging bloody war.” To start with, the conflict in Croatia Yugoslavia was essentially the result of Serbian aggression against Croatian Catholics in their quest for a “Greater Serbia,” so these priests were rightfully ministering to their flock as they desperately fought to defend their very homes and families against a more powerful foe. But even if the situation had been reversed and they had been supporting a war of aggression, that would not have made the Catholic Church responsible, only those individual priests. The Church would only have been responsible if the Pope himself had endorsed such a war, and that was certainly not the case.