Gonzaga University will cover contraception but promises to clearly communicate Church teaching

[iloveangels]

And the IRS, which will be the enforcement agency here, if unable to seize earnings or assets, will be able to seize property or anything of value that a person or institution owns.

Just consider yourself fortunate if you do not wind up in a detention camp or re-education facility for Catholics, before the decade is out, sort of like the Japanese-American camps during WW-II.

Jim, I’'m not into high drama. But I do know that we had better get our house in order because there are a lot of nasty things coming our direction. If we don’t take steps to minimize our exposure, we’re going to get romped on now with respect to high profile issues.

We were a political pawn this last election, pure and simple, a scapegoat. The democrats needed a scapegoat, a reason to avoid talking about the economy. The reason the scapegoat was us is because we have so many public contradictions and that made us the easiest to pick on. We have a nasty habit of having a lot of internal corruption, dissension and ambiguity while calling other people on it. You can’t do that and get away with it, which should not be a surprise to anybody, but it apparently was to us. Surprise, surprise.

Notice BTW, that as much as the media would have liked to pile into Romney over his religion, by and large, they didn’t. They are in better shape than we are with respect to public contradictions. We were a better target by far, so we got the play instead of them. Interesting, no?

 

[JimG]

Jim, I’'m not into high drama. But I do know that we had better get our house in order because there are a lot of nasty things coming our direction. If we don’t take steps to minimize our exposure, we’re going to get romped on now with respect to high profile issues.

We were a political pawn this last election, pure and simple, a scapegoat. The democrats needed a scapegoat, a reason to avoid talking about the economy. The reason the scapegoat was us is because we have so many public contradictions and that made us the easiest to pick on. We have a nasty habit of having a lot of internal corruption, dissension and ambiguity while calling other people on it. You can’t do that and get away with it, which should not be a surprise to anybody, but it apparently was to us. Surprise, surprise.

Notice BTW, that as much as the media would have liked to pile into Romney over his religion, by and large, they didn’t. They are in better shape than we are with respect to public contradictions. We were a better target by far, so we got the play instead of them. Interesting, no?

Well sure, we were a handy target. I think we will continue to be a handy target. When it came to the HHS mandate, the media treated it as a contraception issue, (not much mention of sterilization or abortifacients or religious liberty, or the HHS’s freedom to expand the mandate at will.) But as long as Catholic morals are in opposition to the culture we will be a target. It will get worse.

I think by getting our house in order you mean selling off our schools, hospitals, and charitable activities to secularists in order to keep the government happy?

 

[iloveangels]

Well sure, we were a handy target. I think we will continue to be a handy target. When it came to the HHS mandate, the media treated it as a contraception issue, (not much mention of sterilization or abortifacients or religious liberty, or the HHS’s freedom to expand the mandate at will.) But as long as Catholic morals are in opposition to the culture we will be a target. It will get worse.

Yes, we were. And politicians milked it for all it was worth. And they will continue to do so until the public gets tired of it or it no longer works, whichever comes first. We can hasten that time by doing a few things. See below.

I think by getting our house in order you mean selling off our schools, hospitals, and charitable activities to secularists in order to keep the government happy?

No. I mean cleaning up our act. We need to take a long hard look at what we have and what we do. We can’t have so-called Catholic institutions that are in blatant defiance of Church teaching and willing to flaunt it in public–so severely that even the general public can point it out to us! If they can’t knock it off, we have to get rid of them. Period.

We can’t be out carrying on about abortion voting records when it’s a matter of public record that Catholic abortion rates are almost the same as those of the general public. Before we take the public to task, we have to clean up our own behavior.

We also have to make some practical accommodations to the way we do things. We need to stop hiring non-Catholics who demand things of us that we can’t morally provide to them. We need to stop performing civil marriages and look at what they’ve done in Europe to get around some of these problems already.

And finally, we need to recognize the basic fact that Catholicism is first and foremost a RELIGION and that our apostolates are just that–consequences of our faith in God. We don’t worship apostolates. WE worship GOD.

 

[iloveangels]

…But as long as Catholic morals are in opposition to the culture we will be a target. It will get worse.

BTW, you’ve said an interesting thing here. This was not the general population’s point, nor was it the politician’s objection. Quite the opposite. The Church may say that we shouldn’t practice abortion or birth control, but the plain fact is that’s not what we do. It’s a matter of public record that no matter what Catholics say, they behave in a fashion almost identical to the general population, and the general population knows that.

There is no reserve, no special sort of behavior or identity that the general population expects to see from us. We don’t eat fish on Friday, we don’t refuse to enter bars, we don’t have dozens of kids, we don’t wear funny hats, or have a long lock of hair like the Hasidim, we don’t talk about God much, we don’t pray in public at business dinners and we don’t refuse in the doctor’s office when certain procedures are suggested. WE are not generally more honest or chaste than the general population and we don’t necessarily drink less, etc etc. We have become interchangeable with the general population. We even vote like them. And we behave like them too. We are them.

I don’t think I’m suggesting we do all these sorts of things just to be doing them, although an identity mark or two wouldn’t be a bad idea for our own purposes. RATHER, I am suggesting that we obey our own teaching and pay attention to whether our behavior and our talk matches on a very basic religious level. And take steps to remedy the situation when it doesn’t happen. It matters.

 

[JimG]

BTW, you’ve said an interesting thing here. This was not the general population’s point, nor was it the politician’s objection. Quite the opposite. The Church may say that we shouldn’t practice abortion or birth control, but the plain fact is that’s not what we do. It’s a matter of public record that no matter what Catholics say, they behave in a fashion almost identical to the general population, and the general population knows that.

There is no reserve, no special sort of behavior or identity that the general population expects to see from us. We don’t eat fish on Friday, we don’t refuse to enter bars, we don’t have dozens of kids, we don’t wear funny hats, or have a long lock of hair like the Hasidim, we don’t talk about God much, we don’t pray in public at business dinners and we don’t refuse in the doctor’s office when certain procedures are suggested. WE are not generally more honest or chaste than the general population and we don’t necessarily drink less, etc etc. We have become interchangeable with the general population. We even vote like them. And we behave like them too. We are them.

I don’t think I’m suggesting we do all these sorts of things just to be doing them, although an identity mark or two wouldn’t be a bad idea for our own purposes. RATHER, I am suggesting that we obey our own teaching and pay attention to whether our behavior and our talk matches on a very basic religious level. And take steps to remedy the situation when it doesn’t happen. It matters.

I guess you’re right. Catholics worked too hard to become “mainstream” back in the 1950’s, and didn’t even blink when the Kennedy clan turned politically from pro-life to pro-choice. The US Bishops dropped the requirement for Friday abstinence from meat–although my wife never did! Our worship began to look more Protestant and less Catholic. We quit teaching faith and morals to children and taught happy songs instead. We accepted off-color entertainment without a qualm.

I have to say though, that at least in my diocese, things are turning around, and actually have been for some time. It’s like living in an island of prosperity in a sea of poverty. Maybe it will spread.

 

[iloveangels]

I guess you’re right. Catholics worked too hard to become “mainstream” back in the 1950’s, and didn’t even blink when the Kennedy clan turned politically from pro-life to pro-choice. The US Bishops dropped the requirement for Friday abstinence from meat–although my wife never did! Our worship began to look more Protestant and less Catholic. We quit teaching faith and morals to children and taught happy songs instead. We accepted off-color entertainment without a qualm.

Yup, for Catholics who really didn’t want to be Catholic, and wanted to be mainstream, it was brilliant. They were successful beyond their wildest dreams. Their only regret was that it didn’t go far enough. And here we are.

I have to say though, that at least in my diocese, things are turning around, and actually have been for some time. It’s like living in an island of prosperity in a sea of poverty. Maybe it will spread.

It has to “turn around” faster. We have got to come to terms with this. It looks like a giant blinking red traffic light in public.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Why is it that Catholic congresspersons aren’t counseled by their diocesan bishops and subsequently excommunicated for supporting laws that support abortion if the Catholic Church is really against abortion?

Why are they also allowed to receive the eucharist and sacrilege it?

I know it is not my job to counsel those people–it is the bishop’s job–and whether or how he does that is up to him–I just wonder sometimes if the attempt is made.

And it’s not my job to excommunicate those people or not–it just seems to me that maybe if such drastic measures were taken that maybe we wouldn’t have legal abortion in this country.

The apostle Paul excommunicated the incestuous Corinthian for having his father’s wife.

Which is worse–that abomination or millions of innocent children being killed through legal abortion and the eucharist being sacrileged by Catholic officeholders who support abortion?

If they can get away with these abominations that cry out to heaven for justice maybe that is why they aren’t afraid of passing a law that established the HHS mandate.

Maybe if Catholic lay people heard homilies that said that if they voted for candidates that support abortion and were unrepentant for that vote until death that they would go to Hell because they would die in a state of mortal sin–who knows–maybe we wouldn’t have the mess that’s facing us right now.

The fight against sin can’t be avoided by the Catholic Church–the Catholic Church must preach against it and fight it everyday until Jesus comes back.

Whenever the Catholic Church doesn’t do that–the devil temporarily wins.

Maybe the Catholic Church would be better off if it didn’t cater to people who give it money but support evil or to Catholic officeholders who support abortion and then come receive the eucharist with no consequences from their dioceses.

One last thing: Many Protestant faiths are against abortion–the Jewish faith is against abortion–the Moslem faith is against abortion–and the Catholic faith is against abortion yet we still have abortion?

Isn’t something wrong with that picture?

 

[ProVobis]

Why are they also allowed to receive the eucharist and sacrilege it?

This argument probably wouldn’t work in Spanish or Polish communities, because half the congregation, if that many, don’t go up to receive at all. And they are probably more devout and pro-life than the Anglos.