Gov. seeks to 'clarify' Indiana 'religious freedom' law

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estesbob said:
How about we let people decide what their religious beliefs are without being second guessed by the Govt.? If you want to start a bakery and refuse to serve overweight people that should be your right.
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Really? Not that I’m overweight, but since when should people be discriminated against willy-nilly, based on the whims of the store owner? At least the bakers who refused to serve a gay couple had their practice of religion to fall back on, but a bakery for fit people only? I don’t know about that. Which group will be targeted next?
 
meltzerboy said:
Really? Not that I’m overweight, but since when should people be discriminated against willy-nilly, based on the whims of the store owner? At least the bakers who refused to serve a gay couple had their practice of religion to fall back on, but a bakery for in-fit people only? I don’t know about that. Which group will be targeted next?
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The point that was being made was that overweight people are gluttons and gluttony is a sin, as per Catholic teaching.
 
meltzerboy said:
Really? Not that I’m overweight, but since when should people be discriminated against willy-nilly, based on the whims of the store owner? At least the bakers who refused to serve a gay couple had their practice of religion to fall back on, but a bakery for fit people only? I don’t know about that. Which group will be targeted next?
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Don’t you think the market would quickly take care of a bakery that refused to serve overweight people?
 
Darryl1958 said:
The point that was being made was that overweight people are gluttons and gluttony is a sin, as per Catholic teaching.
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OK, thanks; I hadn’t read the earlier posts. Still, how do you know whether the person’s fat was caused by gluttony rather than a genetic disorder? And what is the cutoff weight allowed, or what if the obese person is buying the cake as a gift (not for a gay wedding, hopefully)? Would this meet the criteria for participating in the sin of gluttony on the part of the baker according to any Christian theology?
 
The market would be able to deal with virtually any business concern, given sufficient need.

Businesses have to be very astute at recognizing need, and catering to that need in as competitive a way as they can. If there is a dollar to be made, then the free enterprise atmosphere of America is more than prepared to make that dollar, and by doing a lot more socially objectionable things than baking cakes too.

People who trust in government to take care of their needs instead of the market are choosing to drive in nails with wrecking balls, when the hammer of the free market will suffice.
 
meltzerboy said:
OK, thanks; I hadn’t read the earlier posts. Still, how do you know whether the person’s fat was caused by gluttony rather than a genetic disorder? And what is the cutoff weight allowed, or what if the obese person is buying the cake as a gift (not for a gay wedding, hopefully)? Would this meet the criteria for participating in the sin of gluttony on the part of the baker according to any Christian theology?
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The post in question was expressing the usual “Christians are hypocrites because they don’t refuse to serve all sinners” fallacy
 
estesbob said:
Don’t you think the market would quickly take care of a bakery that refused to serve overweight people?
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Most likely it would. But it certainly didn’t during the civil rights era with regard to segregation. I’m not always so trusting of the free market as you are.
 
meltzerboy said:
OK, thanks; I hadn’t read the earlier posts. Still, how do you know whether the person’s fat was caused by gluttony rather than a genetic disorder? And what is the cutoff weight allowed, or what if the obese person is buying the cake as a gift (not for a gay wedding, hopefully)? Would this meet the criteria for participating in the sin of gluttony on the part of the baker according to any Christian theology?
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Well that was implictly my point against that post too.
I asked the poster how it was not a form of bigotry to assume that overweight people are gluttons?

The psychological disorders that are associated with obesity, as well as the social changes and government policy that have led to this current crisis of obesity are as real as genetic disorders too.
 
meltzerboy said:
Most likely it would. But it certainly didn’t during the civil rights era with regard to segregation. I’m not always so trusting of the free market as you are.
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Segregation before the civil rights era was very much driven by things like Jim Crow laws, which tie back to government policy much more that the free market, which was actually not even all that free inasmuch as even businesses were bound to those kinds of laws too.
 
estesbob said:
How about we let people decide what their religious beliefs are without being second guessed by the Govt.? If you want to start a bakery and refuse to serve overweight people that should be your right.
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Or black people.
 
Sy_Noe said:
What bothers me is SSM seems to be the main “sin” being objected to. Yet gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins. So is pride, extreme greed, lust, anger, etc. These and lots of other things besides SSM are considered sins by the Catholic Church and other faiths which have a conservative bend to them. So if you’re going to go by your religious beliefs, you should also refuse for instance to bake a cake for a heterosexual couple’s wedding where one or both are overweight or obese and refuse to do so for all other sinners.
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Good point. Most people engage in behaviors that the Catholic church considers as grave as homosexuality. Busting your BMI to satisfy your appetite is just one of them. Self gratification and satisfying your male spouse without the baby making maneuvers are just as grave sins as homosexuality according to the Cathecism. And those sins are very very common among Catholics and the US population in general. If you wanted to deny services to people based on the sinfulness of their sex lives, you’d end up denying services to most of your customer base. If you choose which grave sin is okay and which is not, then it’s really not about your religion, is it? It’s about using your religion to discriminate.
 
anthrogirl said:
Good point. Most people engage in behaviors that the Catholic church considers as grave as homosexuality. Busting your BMI to satisfy your appetite is just one of them. Self gratification and satisfying your male spouse without the baby making maneuvers are just as grave sins as homosexuality according to the Cathecism. And those sins are very very common among Catholics and the US population in general. If you wanted to deny services to people based on the sinfulness of their sex lives, you’d end up denying services to most of your customer base. If you choose which grave sin is okay and which is not, then it’s really not about your religion, is it? It’s about using your religion to discriminate.
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👍
 
anthrogirl said:
Good point. Most people engage in behaviors that the Catholic church considers as grave as homosexuality. Busting your BMI to satisfy your appetite is just one of them. Self gratification and satisfying your male spouse without the baby making maneuvers are just as grave sins as homosexuality according to the Cathecism. And those sins are very very common among Catholics and the US population in general. If you wanted to deny services to people based on the sinfulness of their sex lives, you’d end up denying services to most of your customer base. If you choose which grave sin is okay and which is not, then it’s really not about your religion, is it? It’s about using your religion to discriminate.
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So when the Church called upon us to oppose homosexual “marriage” they were calling us to be bigots? Do you believe ones faith should affect the way they live their lives and interact with others or is something that should be practiced only within the confines of our Church? Are there any sinful behaviors you believe a Catholic should decline to affirm? Do you really believe that practicing one Faith is nothing more than using ones religion to discriminate?

BTW-have you noticed that the only people who applaud your views on our Faith are non-Catholics?
 
anthrogirl said:
Good point. Most people engage in behaviors that the Catholic church considers as grave as homosexuality. Busting your BMI to satisfy your appetite is just one of them. Self gratification and satisfying your male spouse without the baby making maneuvers are just as grave sins as homosexuality according to the Cathecism. And those sins are very very common among Catholics and the US population in general. If you wanted to deny services to people based on the sinfulness of their sex lives, you’d end up denying services to most of your customer base. If you choose which grave sin is okay and which is not, then it’s really not about your religion, is it? It’s about using your religion to discriminate.
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EmperorNapoleon said:
👍
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True, homosexuality (acting on it anyway) is a potentially grave sin, but there are a multitude of other grave sin. But with homosexuality, its a sin that the sinners are crying out for public acceptance. What envious person goes around saying “embrace my envy!” What obese person says, “celebrate my obesity!” No one does. Except for homosexuals crying out - demanding - acceptance of their behavior as normal and worthy of celebration. We are all sinners. We should be seeking forgiveness and be repenting rather than shouting from the rooftops: “embrace my sin!!” And anything short of embracement of sin is to be subject to being branded as narrow minded, intolerant, etc.

Doesn’t make sense to me. Perhaps you could explain?

Ishii
 
ishii said:
True, homosexuality (acting on it anyway) is a potentially grave sin, but there are a multitude of other grave sin. But with homosexuality, its a sin that the sinners are crying out for public acceptance. What envious person goes around saying “embrace my envy!” What obese person says, “celebrate my obesity!” No one does. Except for homosexuals crying out - demanding - acceptance of their behavior as normal and worthy of celebration. We are all sinners. We should be seeking forgiveness and be repenting rather than shouting from the rooftops: “embrace my sin!!” And anything short of embracement of sin is to be subject to being branded as narrow minded, intolerant, etc.

Doesn’t make sense to me. Perhaps you could explain?

Ishii
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The explanation-those who cling to their quaint religious superstitions are hypocrites.
 
Darryl1958 said:
That is your opinion, which you are entitled to.

What people are not getting are any facts that support that cynical opinion.
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If you think politicians react to voters instead of money, then you live in a different world than I do.
 
sallybutler said:
If you think politicians react to voters instead of money, then you live in a different world than I do.
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The opinion is still as loud and proud as ever. The facts in this particular case still are based in assumptions rather than evidence.
 
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