Graven Images in the Catholic Church

[cisco_1]

I do agree on both sides in certain points. I don’t think it’s wrong having images that serve as reminders or decorations however we have to admit that ALLOT of Catholics have misused them in the way the bible prohibits.

Take a look at the Guadalupe Church in Mexico… the amount of Candels being placed under Mother Mary statues, the high amount of kneeling, crawling, and crying to it… while I do think that Christians should honor mary as the mother of god, and ask for her prayers… i do think that some of the things done is a bit too far. I’m ok i guess if those activities were presented on a Jesus statue but other saints and angels is no doubt wrong. It’s not wrong to have statues of them but just don’t take it too far.

 

[dmar198]

I do agree on both sides in certain points. I don’t think it’s wrong having images that serve as reminders or decorations however we have to admit that ALLOT of Catholics have misused them in the way the bible prohibits.

Take a look at the Guadalupe Church in Mexico… the amount of Candels being placed under Mother Mary statues, the high amount of kneeling, crawling, and crying to it… while I do think that Christians should honor mary as the mother of god, and ask for her prayers… i do think that some of the things done is a bit too far. I’m ok i guess if those activities were presented on a Jesus statue but other saints and angels is no doubt wrong. It’s not wrong to have statues of them but just don’t take it too far.

I appreciate your sensitivity to this, and I have some questions. First, do you really think the people in Mexico are crying to the statues and pictures? I think they may be crying before them, but I doubt they really attribute anything to the images themselves. What do you think?

Second, why do you think kneeling and crawling and crying before a statue are wrong? I think it’s not wrong to do those things as an expression of honor for a person, because I think kneeling, crawling, or crying are only acts of worship if you intend them to be. What do you think?

 

[stewstew03]

This question comes at an interesting time…When protestants everywhere fill their churches and homes with graven images…

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net...=59a8433828329e61622e0ab8a1880c3c&oe=550BC3E4

Well done…:clapping:

 

[cisco_1]

I appreciate your sensitivity to this, and I have some questions. First, do you really think the people in Mexico are crying to the statues and pictures? I think they may be crying before them, but I doubt they really attribute anything to the images themselves. What do you think?

Second, why do you think kneeling and crawling and crying before a statue are wrong? I think it’s not wrong to do those things as an expression of honor for a person, because I think kneeling, crawling, or crying are only acts of worship if you intend them to be. What do you think?

I can’t mind read them but it really looks like it. I’ve seen people hugging the pictures of mary in their heart, crawling at the center towards the statue of her. In a sense it is wrong because of the amount of focus it portrays; it really surpassses the point of honor and shows how big the persons dependence towards the image is. Why would i crawl with a portrait of the saint tugged to my heart, stop and cliff my hands and channel all my devotion to the image that isn’t that of God?

Why should i beg like i am in need of acceptance, forgiveness, healing, swarm candels, flowers all over it as offerings to an image that isn’t God? Listen, i don’t want to sound like a Protestant because i do believe in the honoring of Mary and the saints, however some actions being done towards their statues is going a bit too far.

 

[Ignatius]

Consider why God Himself ordered image of Angels, a snake on a pole and other things when your interpretation of the Bible seems to indicate otherwise.
When you understand this the answer to this you will understand.

 

[dmar198]

I can’t mind read them but it really looks like it.

I think that’s a very important point. When you say you can’t mind read them, that’s why I say it’s the intention that counts. I think we should trust that people aren’t worshiping someone unless they intend to, because we can’t read their hearts. Do you think that’s reasonable?

I’ve seen people hugging the pictures of mary in their heart,

Me too, but I’ve also seen them hugging pictures of their families to their heart, and I don’t count that as worship either. I think it just means they are very emotionally attached to the person in the image.

crawling at the center towards the statue of her

I’ve seen that too, and I think it’s very similar to the way Jacob bowed himself to the ground seven times as he approached his brother Esau in Genesis 33:3-8. I don’t think that counts as worship unless you intend it to. Otherwise, I think it’s just a very humble gesture of honor towards someone. Do you think that’s reasonable?

In a sense it is wrong because of the amount of focus it portrays; it really surpassses the point of honor and shows how big the persons dependence towards the image is.

First, I don’t think we can know what point their honor is at, because we can’t read their heart. If we stopped them in the middle of their crawling and asked them if they intend that as an act of worship toward Mary, I think they would deny it, and I think we should believe them.

Second, I don’t think it’s wrong to focus that much on Mary. I think we do it all the time with other people, and even non-people. For example, when I’ve been gone for a long time, my dog jumps up at me, and I kneel down and bury my face in the dog’s fur and hug and kiss the dog. Some people even cry when they meet their dog after a long absence. But I don’t think those are gestures of worship because they aren’t intended to be. I do think it shows a tremendous amount of focus on the dog in that moment, but I still don’t think that’s worship – it’s emotion. Worship has to be an act of the will, not of the emotions. Does that make sense?

 

[BrassAnkles]

I can’t mind read them but it really looks like it. I’ve seen people hugging the pictures of mary in their heart, crawling at the center towards the statue of her. In a sense it is wrong because of the amount of focus it portrays; it really surpassses the point of honor and shows how big the persons dependence towards the image is. Why would i crawl with a portrait of the saint tugged to my heart, stop and cliff my hands and channel all my devotion to the image that isn’t that of God?

Why should i beg like i am in need of acceptance, forgiveness, healing, swarm candels, flowers all over it as offerings to an image that isn’t God? Listen, i don’t want to sound like a Protestant because i do believe in the honoring of Mary and the saints, however some actions being done towards their statues is going a bit too far.

There are Mexican Catholics that don’t understand their faith anymore than American Catholics who support abortion, art. birth control, homosexual indoctrination in public schools etc. and vote for a party that has godless values. However, to assume that the Catholic faith is not being practiced correctly in Mexico or the US because even a majority of Catholics don’t bother to understand nor follow Catholic doctrine is not correct.

 

[Mintaka]

In other news, this week the British Museum announced that their digitization of Hebrew illuminated manuscripts had begun.

You will notice that the Jewish people of Europe really hated representative art. And there are especially no Haggadah pictures of Moses with a plague of frogs. And that the frog invitingly right in front of Moses, and a particular one in the cabinet, definitely haven’t been touched on Passover by generations of the youngest male in the family patting their backs, to the point that the green paint has worn away.

Ancient synagogue floor mosaics, including zodiac figures. (Although I think the “Helios” is supposed to be associated with the psalm where “the sun like a giant runs his course” across the sky, so he’s a non-divine personified Sun.)

 

[cisco_1]

I think that’s a very important point. When you say you can’t mind read them, that’s why I say it’s the intention that counts. I think we should trust that people aren’t worshiping someone unless they intend to, because we can’t read their hearts. Do you think that’s reasonable?

It’s reasonable to come to the conclusion that the devotion to saint statues is being taken too far with actions like that. If you recall the first page of this thread, a link was posted in response to the topic creator on understanding the presence of Statues and how it talks about the verse in Ex 32:31 which i will go into after the next quote.

Me too, but I’ve also seen them hugging pictures of their families to their heart, and I don’t count that as worship either. I think it just means they are very emotionally attached to the person in the image. I’ve seen that too, and I think it’s very similar to the way Jacob bowed himself to the ground seven times as he approached his brother Esau in Genesis 33:3-8. I don’t think that counts as worship unless you intend it to. Otherwise, I think it’s just a very humble gesture of honor towards someone.

Your examples are not on the same context as to what is actually being done in Churches like the Guadalupe church. I mentioned the link earlier and i will post the verse that was being talked about there…
"You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them"

A person going towards a statue that isn’t an image of God, crawling on his/her knees in a way the peasants do when asking for forgiveness/favors from their master, with a picture of that same person being tugged to your heart is already reaching the form of idolitary. It is ok to have statues and pray to saints, however bowing down to their statues and giving them all these offerings is going against that verse.

Do you think that’s reasonable? First, I don’t think we can know what point their honor is at, because we can’t read their heart. If we stopped them in the middle of their crawling and asked them if they intend that as an act of worship toward Mary, I think they would deny it, and I think we should believe them.

Just because they deny it doesn’t mean that they don’t realize it. Saints are not demi-gods they are servants of god, greater servants than us, but servants none the less. Take a look at the various religions through out history, every single statue of their specific god/godess was approached and treated in this manner.
If you want to see it for yourself you can look for Fr Barron’s catholicism video on youtube that is about the Guadalupe Church. This isn’t a normal “i love you” type of gestures these are actual begging towards statues. Even the Angels in the bible rebuked such things when people were doing it to them. Statues of Saints and Angels are not to be bowed down to and given such focus that is meant to be God. It is ok to walk up to a saint statue, place your hand over the feat as a way to channel your spirit to connect with theirs in prayer but going towards it with both knees against the floor, with images of them tugged to your heart, and all dependent emotion being displayed before it is going to far. I understand our love for the church is great and we want it to be shown as errorless but we have to be truthful that there are times were misguided people need to be corrected.

 

[cisco_1]

There are Mexican Catholics that don’t understand their faith anymore than American Catholics who support abortion, art. birth control, homosexual indoctrination in public schools etc. and vote for a party that has godless values. However, to assume that the Catholic faith is not being practiced correctly in Mexico or the US because even a majority of Catholics don’t bother to understand nor follow Catholic doctrine is not correct.

I am aware of that and i was never generalizing catholics in general. As i stated in my first post, i agree with what has been presented on both sides on this topic i’m just giving an (name removed by moderator)ut that there are catholics out there that do take the Statue use too far and people (mostly non catholic) see this.

 

[dmar198]

Let me start where you ended:

I understand our love for the church is great and we want it to be shown as errorless but we have to be truthful that there are times were misguided people need to be corrected.

I agree that there are misguided people who need to be corrected, but I don’t think the crawling or the hugging of pictures at Guadalupe is one of those things that needs correction. I think it is just a very emotional way of showing authentic love for Mary, and many Americans are uncomfortable showing that kind of emotion. But I don’t think God has a problem with it.

You quoted Exodus 32:31 and cited some passages about people bowing before angels, so let’s look at those.

People in the Bible bowed down before images as well as other people in ways that are approved by God. In Joshua 7:6, all Israel bowed down before the Ark of the Covenant, including its angel statues, for the whole evening. But I don’t think they were worshiping it. Catholics may bow down before statues of Mary, raise up their arms toward them and cry out toward them, but I think the Jews did the same thing toward the Temple of Solomon, including its angel statues, in Psalms 138:2, Psalms 5:7, and Psalms 28:2. I don’t think those gestures count as worship unless you intend them to.

Look at it this way: humans are bodies and spirits, and our bodies have a finite amount of emotion that we can expend on stuff. The amount of emotion we pour into something is expressed in gestures like crying, crawling, and clutching. But we cannot say that if you use X amount of emotion on something, you are worshiping it, because that’s not how our emotions work. Sometimes people pour out all their emotion on their dog when they’ve been gone for a long time, and you’ll see them bow down, clutch the dog, and cry into its fur because they missed it. But that’s not worship. It’s just emotional outpouring. You Can use that for worship, but we shouldn’t assume anybody’s doing that unless we have good reason to believe they really think they are trying to show their highest form of honor. Does that make sense?

Just because they deny it doesn’t mean that they don’t realize it.

I think it does. If you deny that you are worshiping something, and you mean it, by that very fact you aren’t worshiping, because worship is an act of the will. At least that’s what I think.

Saints are not demi-gods they are servants of god, greater servants than us, but servants none the less. Take a look at the various religions through out history, every single statue of their specific god/godess was approached and treated in this manner.

I think that is because they are using those emotional gestures for the purpose of worship. But I don’t think to cry out toward something and clutch it is inherently worshipful, otherwise I’ve worshiped my dog. I think it’s just emotional, and you as a person get to decide by your intellect and will whether that emotion is directed toward worship, toward honor, or toward your dog.

If you want to see it for yourself you can look for Fr Barron’s catholicism video on youtube that is about the Guadalupe Church. This isn’t a normal “i love you” type of gestures these are actual begging towards statues.

Yeah, I’ve seen it, and I admired their fervor. I didn’t think they were worshiping the statues, I just thought they were more emotionally connected to the people in heaven than I am. I’ve seen people kiss pictures of their family, because they know their family is real and they have a deep emotional attachment. I think that’s the kind of attachment we should have toward the people in heaven. Therefore, I think we should show images of the saints the same emotional gestures (or more) that we would show toward pictures of our wife and kids. What do you think of that argument?

Even the Angels in the bible rebuked such things when people were doing it to them.

Not always. In Joshua 5:14-15 and Revelation 3:9, angels and humans are bowed to without rebuking it, but in Revelation 19:10 and Acts 10:25-26, angels and humans rebuke people for bowing to them. I think the difference may be that in the first two cases the people bowing had human-level honor in their heart, and that’s okay to show to men and angels, but in the second two cases they had worshipful intent in their heart, and that’s not okay to show to anyone but God. I think the gesture was the same, but the intent was different. Do you think that’s reasonable? Because that’s the standard I apply to people in Guadalupe: the gestures are okay as long as the intent in the heart is not to worship but to honor.

 

[cisco_1]

Let me start where you ended: I agree that there are misguided people who need to be corrected, but I don’t think the crawling or the hugging of pictures at Guadalupe is one of those things that needs correction. I think it is just a very emotional way of showing authentic love for Mary, and many Americans are uncomfortable showing that kind of emotion. But I don’t think God has a problem with it.

You quoted Exodus 32:31 and cited some passages about people bowing before angels, so let’s look at those.

People in the Bible bowed down before images as well as other people in ways that are approved by God. In Joshua 7:6, all Israel bowed down before the Ark of the Covenant, including its angel statues, for the whole evening. But I don’t think they were worshiping it. Catholics may bow down before statues of Mary, raise up their arms toward them and cry out toward them, but I think the Jews did the same thing toward the Temple of Solomon, including its angel statues, in Psalms 138:2, Psalms 5:7, and Psalms 28:2. I don’t think those gestures count as worship unless you intend them to.

Look at it this way: humans are bodies and spirits, and our bodies have a finite amount of emotion that we can expend on stuff. The amount of emotion we pour into something is expressed in gestures like crying, crawling, and clutching. But we cannot say that if you use X amount of emotion on something, you are worshiping it, because that’s not how our emotions work. Sometimes people pour out all their emotion on their dog when they’ve been gone for a long time, and you’ll see them bow down, clutch the dog, and cry into its fur because they missed it. But that’s not worship. It’s just emotional outpouring. You Can use that for worship, but we shouldn’t assume anybody’s doing that unless we have good reason to believe they really think they are trying to show their highest form of honor. Does that make sense? I think it does. If you deny that you are worshiping something, and you mean it, by that very fact you aren’t worshiping, because worship is an act of the will. At least that’s what I think. I think that is because they are using those emotional gestures for the purpose of worship. But I don’t think to cry out toward something and clutch it is inherently worshipful, otherwise I’ve worshiped my dog. I think it’s just emotional, and you as a person get to decide by your intellect and will whether that emotion is directed toward worship, toward honor, or toward your dog. Yeah, I’ve seen it, and I admired their fervor. I didn’t think they were worshiping the statues, I just thought they were more emotionally connected to the people in heaven than I am. I’ve seen people kiss pictures of their family, because they know their family is real and they have a deep emotional attachment. I think that’s the kind of attachment we should have toward the people in heaven. Therefore, I think we should show images of the saints the same emotional gestures (or more) that we would show toward pictures of our wife and kids. What do you think of that argument? Not always. In Joshua 5:14-15 and Revelation 3:9, angels and humans are bowed to without rebuking it, but in Revelation 19:10 and Acts 10:25-26, angels and humans rebuke people for bowing to them. I think the difference may be that in the first two cases the people bowing had human-level honor in their heart, and that’s okay to show to men and angels, but in the second two cases they had worshipful intent in their heart, and that’s not okay to show to anyone but God. I think the gesture was the same, but the intent was different. Do you think that’s reasonable? Because that’s the standard I apply to people in Guadalupe: the gestures are okay as long as the intent in the heart is not to worship but to honor.

Not to be disrespectful but you are making too many excuses for actions like that. The verse was already posted with the last part bolded: “You shall not bow down or serve them…”. This is what is happening in those churches… they are bowing down towards it and serving it with all the decorations, candels, praises, etc etc… The actions that are happening in Guadalupe is NOT in anyway the same as some person being emotional to his family member, this is the same actions and reverence given by pagans to their gods. Look at all the paintings of ancient greece, read as to how various old religions approached statues of their gods. It was the same way. To deny that this is already crossing the line to idolitry (regardless of them not knowing it) is just being biased. The Verse in Exodus already says it… bowing down to statues is prohibited. No matter what they are feeling or think they are doing. I don’t see how Crawling on the floor, with anything related to the Statue (whether it be roses to pictures…) tucked between the heart, with praises and wishes coming out of their lips as they go to a kneel position to face down repeatedly, is different bowing down to the statue. Again, no disrespect… i thank you for your replies and i’m not knocking the Church but actions like is just wrong.

 

[dmar198]

Not to be disrespectful but you are making too many excuses for actions like that. The verse was already posted with the last part bolded: “You shall not bow down or serve them…”. This is what is happening in those churches… they are bowing down towards it and serving it

It seems to me that you are interpreting the verse by your private interpretation rather than letting the Church interpret it. Do you think Joshua 7:6 counts as bowing down? How about this picture of St. John Paul II bowing before a statue of Our Lady? To me, what this means is, either you understand the Bible better than the pope and better than the actual people in the Bible, or you are misunderstanding that passage. Do you think that’s a fair analysis?

 

[Tomdstone]

"You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them"

This commandment seems to say:

1. You shall not make religious statues or icons.
2. You shall not bow down to a statue or icon.
   Is that correct? Is kneeling before an icon or statue considered to be the same as bowing down ?

 

[steve_b]

Thanks for responding!

The problem I have with your argument, which I have found to be the standard Catholic argument from what I have read so far, is that the Jews themselves completely disagreed with everything you are saying about the graven image command. How is it that they could be wrong for more than 1000 years?

definition (emphasis mine)
**graven image = **noun . an object (such as a statue) that is worshipped as a god or in place of a god.

• let’s get something straight. Not like you haven’t heard this 100 times already, Catholics do NOT worship statues. Therefore statues in Church are NOT graven images.

Re: Jews you speak of, and the 1000 yrs comment, we need to distinguish between "Jews "

• The Catholic Church from the beginning days when Jesus established her, was 100% Jewish. Jesus, Mary, Joseph, their whole family, the apostles, all the 1st converts,…ALL 100% Jews. Those Jews who did NOT convert to the Catholic Church otoh, ergo did NOT accept Jesus as God, nor the Messiah, nor the savior of the world, nor the one the OT fortold was coming, THOSE JEWS remained in THEIR religion. Forget the 1000 year comment you make, They rejected the biggest event to happen in all of history and they still reject Him today.! Those Jews would no more worship Jesus than the man in the moon. Think about it. They were taught face to face by the 2nd person of the Blessed Trinity, the one who spoke in the beginning and all things came into being, and they rejected Him and what He told them to do to His face, and walked away from Him, John 6:54-68 . And THOSE Jews are who YOU are depending on for your argument today?

j:

Second, you are right that God commanded certain images to be made within the context of worship, but isn’t the point here that God commanded it? It wasn’t left for men to come up with it on their own. Again, this is how the Jews always understood it prior to and during the time of Christ. They did not believe that because God gave them a command to make statues of angels, for instance, that this gave them permission to create graven images on their own.

again, we don’t worship statues, we don’t worship saints or statues of saints.
j:

Maybe I have that wrong, but that is what the Talmud says and it’s what I understand to be true about ancient Judaism. If I am wrong, please correct me!

-Justin

Yeah you have it wrong.

Now if you want to say we worship the Eucharist, then there is no argument there. It is truly Jesus present, body blood soul and divinity in what LOOKS to you and your eyes, like mere bread and wine but NOT to Catholics after consecration by a validly ordained priest.

I’m also thinking of, Peter James and John at the transfiguration of Christ, who saw Moses and Elijah. That had to be something to see…right? And Peter wanted to immediately set up tents for them. Now according to protestants, you don’t do anything for, nor speak to, dead saints…because… well, …they’re DEAD… right?. Obviously protestants have that Wrong.

 

[Randy_Carson]

This commandment seems to say:

1. You shall not make religious statues or icons.
2. You shall not bow down to a statue or icon.
   Is that correct? Is kneeling before an icon or statue considered to be the same as bowing down ?

Tom-

Please review post #13.

Thanks.

 

[cisco_1]

It seems to me that you are interpreting the verse by your private interpretation rather than letting the Church interpret it. Do you think Joshua 7:6 counts as bowing down? How about this picture of St. John Paul II bowing before a statue of Our Lady? To me, what this means is, either you understand the Bible better than the pope and better than the actual people in the Bible, or you are misunderstanding that passage. Do you think that’s a fair analysis?

How is it being misinterpreted, it says it all there. Bowing down to any image is already wrong… You are making reasons such as “well Joshua bowed down to this object so”, and I’ve given you examples as to how pagans approach the statues of their gods and it is the same thing that is being displayed. To show you the meaning of bowing down to an image. Bowing down with your head down all because of respect is not wrong, i agree… but when certain actions are being added to it such as throwing of flowers as offerings, giving praises/wishes, kneeling position to face down repeatedly, and hugging another image of it straight to your heart is already crossing the line. That is already a display that is identical to how ancient pagans treated their statues.

Joshua 7:6 does not count as bowing down in the context presented. The Arc of the Covenant to the Jews was the closest representation of God. It contained objects that he wrote with his own hands and it was not a identified as a memoration of a person/creature… but a memoration of God. Next if you read Jewish tradition, they never bowed to the arc itself but the direction it was facing which is the Holy of Holies in Jerusalem. That is how it has always been. In short they projecting their bows to God not to cherubs on top…so i think it is you who is misinterpreting texts here if you think the bowing towards the arkto be joshua focusing all wishes/hopes to that Arc in it’s own… the people in Guadalupe are bowing down to a statue of Mother Mary and towards Mother Mary. The approaches they make towards it is the same way pagans did to their gods. Your pic of the pope is not the same as to what they are doing either, if you showed me a picture of the pope crawling towards a Statue of our Mother that is decorated with loads of candles to various religious offerings; focusing all emotion towards it, uttering praises, and wishes towards it then yes it would be wrong of him because that is already crossing the line.

 

[cisco_1]

This commandment seems to say:

1. You shall not make religious statues or icons.
2. You shall not bow down to a statue or icon.
   Is that correct? Is kneeling before an icon or statue considered to be the same as bowing down ?

No.Bowing down, like kneeling or hiding your face, in short submission… isn’t the same as “bowing down”… bowing down meaning gestures that were given to false idols during the time of Pagan worship. Crying for mercy towards it, hugging other versions of this image, and applying faith towards it is when it is wrong.

 

[jinc1019]

In other news, this week the British Museum announced that their digitization of Hebrew illuminated manuscripts had begun.

You will notice that the Jewish people of Europe really hated representative art. And there are especially no Haggadah pictures of Moses with a plague of frogs. And that the frog invitingly right in front of Moses, and a particular one in the cabinet, definitely haven’t been touched on Passover by generations of the youngest male in the family patting their backs, to the point that the green paint has worn away.

Ancient synagogue floor mosaics, including zodiac figures. (Although I think the “Helios” is supposed to be associated with the psalm where “the sun like a giant runs his course” across the sky, so he’s a non-divine personified Sun.)

We aren’t talking about the Jews of Europe. I fully acknowledge the Jews eventually adopted a different position. The issue is how did Jews understand it for the entire history up to the coming of Christ and then even after to the compilation of the Talmud? That was my point.

 

[jinc1019]

** . The prohibition comes from a concern that even two dimensional images COULD be worshipped, or COULD represent idols. **

That is your quote which puts the Talmud in favor of the Catholic position. The prohibition is for idolatry.

These quotes are from further in the link you provided:

Over time, this commandment has been interpreted in a variety of ways. The most common prohibition, and the one that’s most obvious from the text, is against creating sculptures of people, animals, or planets FOR the purpose of worshipping them. One of the primary messages of the Torah is that worshipping IDOLS is not allowed, so it’s not surprising that creating pieces of art that could be used as idols was prohibited.**

I thought it might be helpful to hear an artist’s interpretations of these rules, so I spoke withTobi Kahn, an artist who has thought a lot about this issue. Tobi said it seemed clear to him that the root of the law was idolatry, and because he doesn’t see people worshipping idols or images anymore, and because we don’t know what God looks like, he doesn’t worry much about the issue of graven images. He doesn’t see any problem creating an image of a full human body.

As long as you DON’T treat a statue as an idol you are fine based on the link that you provided.

I’m sorry, but you are totally misrepresenting what the portion of the text I pointed to said…to the point that it’s essentially lying. The text clearly says that the Talmud forbids ANY depictions IN ANY SETTINGS of the human form…unless God commanded it. That’s what the article plainly says.