Great...just great

[babygirl6152]

Lorarose-

Congratulations **if you are ** expecting.

• can you go to the doctor already and see if you are really pregnant honey?

I wish you all the happiness in the world. For some practical advice though, you need at the very least a housekeeper, and more likely a nanny and a housekeeper. Sounds as if since your illness is not a noticeable illness such as a broken leg or something obvious, you are not going to be treated as you are sick. Remember the sextuplets born what 10 years ago?
They got tons of help from church members, neighbors etc. why should you be any different?

You need some help honey

babygirl

 

[DVIN_CKS]

Amie:

I will stop having kids after #3 or #4 one way or another.

Reminds me of the saying: “Want to make God laugh…tell him your plans.”

Sounds like you are definetly calling the shots where your fertility is concerned. I’d love to hear what the “other” options are besides NFP that the church would aprove of.

 

[john_ennis]

Amie:

. I also know that the church makes provisions for those with physical health problems to use some of the contraceptives available because to not use them is life-threatening or debilitating. Your case sounds like it fits.

Some helpful advice in this post, but this particular assertion is not true.
The Church’s teaching is that artificial contraception is never permitted for any reason. Having a legitimate reason for not becoming pregnant means that one’s choices are: NFP, partial abstinence, or total abstinence.

I’m not being argumentative–simply stating a fact. The Church teaching is not just what some particular priest may tell us.

(A drug or medicine which has a contraceptive side-effect, but is taken for a different medical purpose, can be permissable, however.)

Peace.
John

 

[luvmykids]

Amie:

I just want to say that I completely understand your disgust at God, the church, and the whole NFP experience. In talking to some fairly strong Catholic friends, I have found that even though NFP is beautiful, wonderful, etc. when it’s time to stop having kids, either because physically, mentally, emotionally, etc., then talk to your doctor, talk to your priest, and do something else to prevent it (they did). I’ll probably get he** for this, but even though I practice NFP for now, after #3, or #4 (not sure yet), I want to stop having kids. I won’t do a tubal, and I won’t take drugs… but there are some other methods that I can try that will probably be do-able for me. I also know that the church makes provisions for those with physical health problems to use some of the contraceptives available because to not use them is life-threatening or debilitating. Your case sounds like it fits.

I’m not trying to give you he** for this, and I understand to an extent, but I cannot tolerate it when someone says they are disgusted at God for creating a new life or disgusted at the Church for standing up for what is morally the right thing. I understand it is hard, I have five kids of my own and it hasn’t been easy. Not all of them were planned by me, but they were planned by God. None the less, they are all a blessing and would not send one of them back. Life is not easy no matter what way you look at it. You’ll get through it by the grace of God. You need to keep up your prayer life, even if it is just a quick morning prayer, thanking God in your own words through out the day or just talking to Him and letting Him know your concerns and then an evening prayer right before bed. If you were one of those people that could not get pregnant, then you would probably be disgusted at God for not giving you the children you wanted and the church for not allowing you to use other means to get them. Why does everything always have to be on OUR terms. It should be on God’s terms and we should look at all of our blessings no matter how hard life is and thank the Lord. Humility and obedience. Just look at what God has blessed us with and continue to carry our crosses with the help of God and with love for Him. Please don’t take all this as being judgemental, I don’t mean it that way.

 

[Little_Mary]

Lorarose:

For cryin’ out loud you cannot be serious?
It has occurred to you - hasn’t it? That the VIRGIN Mary never practiced NFP?

This is getting ridiculous.

Lorarose is contradicting herself here.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Lorarose,
First of all, congrats! I hope you warm up to the idea of being pregnant!

Second, have you had an NFP teaching couple look through the cycles where you concieved to see what happened and if you can correct it for the future? I know the Couple to Couple league offers this service. Also, there are other forms of NFP that might be better for different health situations. Have you investigated these for the future? (Creigton, CCLI, BOMA) or even the Pope Paul VI Institute?
creightonmodel.com/
ccli.org
boma-usa.com
popepaulvi.com/

Anyway, I hope you can get your thyroid under control and begin to feel better and that you can trust NFP again. Our bodies can be a mystery at times!

Oh and as an aside, I didn’t tell my MIL we were pregant with #5 until I was about 5 months along–she thinks we’re crazy. If we (and God) decide on #6 she’ll totaly freak out. God bless and prayers for you!
Jennifer

 

[DVIN_CKS]

luvmykids:

Why does everything always have to be on OUR terms. It should be on God’s terms and we should look at all of our blessings no matter how hard life is and thank the Lord. Humility and obedience.

I too am getting tired of hearing all the selfish talk about how folks don’t want any more kids. If this sounds judgemental, so be it. I struggle with my own selfishness on this front. At this point in my life, I’m not sure I want or could handle any more kids. But for the first time in my life I’m letting go and surrendering my need to control this aspect of my life to God. It is terrifying, but in another way it is very freeing. Accepting God’s will works that way I guess. I think many people use NFP with a contraceptive mentality…this is wrong. This is not what the Church teaches us to do.

Like you said…it all boils down to humility and obedience.

 

[Little_Mary]

Lorarose:

total abstinence is not an option.

Whatever happened to unconditional love?

 

[kamz]

Whatever happened to unconditional love?

My brother and his wife have had to abstain almost 4 yrs now, they have two girls ages 6 & 4, my sis in law has had several miscarriages due to the fact she can’t carry to term, at around 25 weeks the placenta serperates and even with bed rest as she did with her second child it still seperated and she had an emergencey c section and my niece was born 10 weeks premature and she is now 4 yrs old and was just diagnosed with severe autisim and it also looks like she is also slightly retarted also, my poor sis in law has not had regular periods in 4 yrs, she bleeds for 3 weeks at a time and she is currently on some hormone therapy that has caused her to gain 50 lbs and feel horrible all the time, they can’t use NFP since she is so irregular and she is trying to find a doctor who will perform a hysterectomy but since she is in her early 30’s they want her to try all sorts of junk first, anyways, they have had to abstain almost 4 yrs, they can count on one hand how many times they have had marital relations and I’m sorry but this has taken a huge toll on their marriage and they are now in counseling and my sis in law and my brother are seriously considering leaving the Catholic church so they can have my brother get a vasectomy…my brother loves his wife and she can’t have more kids they have watched too many babies die because she can’t carry to term and has them at 3 months along and he has abstained and now their marriage is suffering and now their daughter has this diagnosis, abstince forever is Not a good option. What can they do? I ache for them and I don’t blame them for feeling bitter at the church, they feel like they have done everything the church has asked of them and now they can’t even have the marital embrace?? My husband who is Lutheran has considered joining the Catholic church but this is one of the things that greatly turns him off, the Catholic church is sometimes so focused on the “rules” but when you are living in those shoes and it is destroying your marriage and someone says “your not living your Catholic faith or you’ll be eternally damned” the Catholic church can look like the enemy.
Until you walk in the shoes of someone who is actually going through this, you just can’t know what it is Really like.

 

[luvmykids]

kamz:

My brother and his wife have had to abstain almost 4 yrs now, they have two girls ages 6 & 4, my sis in law has had several miscarriages due to the fact she can’t carry to term, at around 25 weeks the placenta serperates and even with bed rest as she did with her second child it still seperated and she had an emergencey c section and my niece was born 10 weeks premature and she is now 4 yrs old and was just diagnosed with severe autisim and it also looks like she is also slightly retarted also, my poor sis in law has not had regular periods in 4 yrs, she bleeds for 3 weeks at a time and she is currently on some hormone therapy that has caused her to gain 50 lbs and feel horrible all the time, they can’t use NFP since she is so irregular and she is trying to find a doctor who will perform a hysterectomy but since she is in her early 30’s they want her to try all sorts of junk first, anyways, they have had to abstain almost 4 yrs, they can count on one hand how many times they have had marital relations and I’m sorry but this has taken a huge toll on their marriage and they are now in counseling and my sis in law and my brother are seriously considering leaving the Catholic church so they can have my brother get a vasectomy…my brother loves his wife and she can’t have more kids they have watched too many babies die because she can’t carry to term and has them at 3 months along and he has abstained and now their marriage is suffering and now their daughter has this diagnosis, abstince forever is Not a good option. What can they do? I ache for them and I don’t blame them for feeling bitter at the church, they feel like they have done everything the church has asked of them and now they can’t even have the marital embrace?? My husband who is Lutheran has considered joining the Catholic church but this is one of the things that greatly turns him off, the Catholic church is sometimes so focused on the “rules” but when you are living in those shoes and it is destroying your marriage and someone says “your not living your Catholic faith or you’ll be eternally damned” the Catholic church can look like the enemy.
Until you walk in the shoes of someone who is actually going through this, you just can’t know what it is Really like.

You’re right, I can’t know what anything is like unless it has happened to me, but that doesn’t mean I can’t have an objective view about what is right. I don’t know what I would do in some of these horrible situations that people talk about in regards to not being able to physically carry more children, but I would hope that I would be strong and do the right thing. I, as I’m sure most people, would hope that the Lord would never ask these things of me, that He would not ask me to carry these crosses, although I do have crosses of my own.

Not using ABC or permanently damaging your body through surgically sterilizing yourself, is not what I would call just “following the rules”. This is not just something that the Church made up as a requirement to belong to their group or something to make people miserable, because they feel like they can. This is from God. It is in His plan for us. It is the morally correct thing to do.

I don’t have the answers for people who are struggling with what you described. There are a lot of terrible struggles in life. They do need the Lord though. They need to pray, pray, pray, talk to an NFP doctor, a good priest, and have faith. Not being able to enjoy the marrital embrace has got to be difficult on a marriage, but it is not and should not be something to make or break it. There are people out their that have permanantly disabled spouses who can’t physically ever have sex again, or help out in any of the daily activities around the house, or even support the family. That has to be tough. The trick is, to thank the Lord for what you DO have, instead of dwelling on what He hasn’t given you at the moment. Things may change. In what way? Only God knows. Just perservere.

 

[Lorarose]

Where did I mention the Virgin Mary?

Well…I was following a logical sequence.

John Ennis said this…

Originally Posted by john ennis
NFP didn’t work for us once, too.
It worked for someone else. Her name is Megan.

So…John is saying he and his wife were practicing NFP and it failed them - but it didn’t fail their daughter, Megan.

You then said…

It also worked for someone else. His name is God.

by “God” I am assuming you mean Jesus since He is the only member of the Holy Trinity to be born as a human being.
So, I’m assuming you are referring to Mary as well, as she is His mother.

Of course - Mary was a virgin, so she never practiced NFP. So NFP never failed her.

 

[Lorarose]

1-- I can see the humor in that situation now, although I didn’t at the time. I love my children greatly. I thank God often, frequently, daily, that things have gone according to His plan and not mine, even (maybe especially) with the baby, who, like another poster said about one of hers, I ‘didn’t want’ literally right up till the moment of birth. NOW I am very grateful for all the times either I or NFP failed.

2-- Minus the health problems, I’m struggling with NFP for all the reasons you are and having ALL the same thoughts and feelings about it that you are. You are not alone. I, too, have struggled very hard not to be a cafeteria Catholic.

Thank you for sharing your story, and for not assuming the worst about me.

 

[Lorarose]

I think everybody’s circumstanes are different and maybe you need to speak with your pastor and let him know the difficulties you are having living the Catholic Christian life. It is very hard to abstain for months and I really don’t think anyone can do this. Marriage is a giving of each other and relations are part of being marriage. Depriving your spouse of this would be wrong. Talk to your parish priest and I believe he will give you the right spiritual guidance that you are seeking.

I haven’t had a chance to see our priest since I found out I’m pregnant, and these next couple of weeks will be busy for him - but hopefully it won’t be too long before we can sit down with him.

Thank you for your reply - it is always to nice to hear from a sensible and kind person.

 

[luvmykids]

Lorarose:

Of course - Mary was a virgin, so she never practiced NFP. So NFP never failed her.

So what are you saying then, God failed her? She didn’t even get to have the marital embrace, wasn’t even married at the time, and STILL got pregnant. Don’t you think that she was scared? I think thats the point little mary was trying to get across. I don’t know, I could be wrong.

When you say NFP failed, basically you say God failed, because God and only God can create life. We can cooperate with Him in His creation, or we can say no. The Blessed Mother could have said no too.

 

[Ferdinand_Mary]

NOTICE: There have been several uncharitable posts so far, but that stops now. Be curtious and charitable, or this thread will be closed with modifications of posting privilages distributed.

Keep it above the belt, or don’t post.

Mane Nobiscum Domine,
Ferdinand Mary

 

[Lorarose]

Lorarose,
I love your sense of humor with all the threads, and I love your cynicism. I too am a cynical person, so I REALLY appreciated your come-backs I LOL for the first time in weeks… I’m currently pregnant with #3, but #1 and #2 were “practice” NFP babies… so, basically it didn’t work for me either cuz I kept getting pregnant before I could figure out what the heck I was doing wrong. Love the kids, I do trust God, but I’m not a person wanting tons of kids… God bless those who do, of course.

I just want to say that I completely understand your disgust at God, the church, and the whole NFP experience. In talking to some fairly strong Catholic friends, I have found that even though NFP is beautiful, wonderful, etc. when it’s time to stop having kids, either because physically, mentally, emotionally, etc., then talk to your doctor, talk to your priest, and do something else to prevent it (they did). I’ll probably get he** for this, but even though I practice NFP for now, after #3, or #4 (not sure yet), I want to stop having kids. I won’t do a tubal, and I won’t take drugs… but there are some other methods that I can try that will probably be do-able for me. I also know that the church makes provisions for those with physical health problems to use some of the contraceptives available because to not use them is life-threatening or debilitating. Your case sounds like it fits.

Thank you Amy. I wouldn’t say I’m disgusted with God.
But yes…this experience is less than enjoyable.
Congratulations on your new little ones!

I don’t know what your problem is with NFP. Haven’t you heard?
It’s 99% affective and easy to use!

 

[Lorarose]

So what are you saying then, God failed her?

Did you SEE me say that?

She didn’t even get to have the marital embrace, wasn’t even married at the time, and STILL got pregnant. Don’t you think that she was scared? I think thats the point little mary was trying to get across. I don’t know, I could be wrong.

Little Mary is on my ignore list. I wasn’t responding to her.
I was responding to someone else.

When you say NFP failed, basically you say God failed, because God and only God can create life.

No that isn’t what I’m saying. But by all means, don’t let that stop you from putting words in my mouth.

We can cooperate with Him in His creation, or we can say no. The Blessed Mother could have said no too.

What I said was simple and straightforward.
That you want to read much more into it is your problem, not mine.

 

[Ferdinand_Mary]

Thank you to all who participated, this thread is now closed.

Mane Nobiscum Domine,
Ferdinand Mary