Great...just great

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I think John Ennis is right though, God would really have to intervene for a woman to be pregnant in phase three. Once the egg is gone, it’s gone. Most NFP oops are due to either too late coitus in phase one, or freaky super long lasting sperm. Also, I’ve read that multiple coitus can change the alkalinity of the vagina and allow sperm to survive longer.

Occasionally, some women have a double mucus patch, so they might think they are in phase three. I think it is smart to do the temps, too. Also, there are ovulation monitors if you are willing to put in the money–cheaper than contraception or surgery, I’m guessing.

Our one NFP oops was from a double mucus patch that occurred at my usual ovulation time. However, at the time, I thought it was not of the usual quality–I was suspicious. When I had my fertile mucus a week later–I knew right away I’d goofed. Unfortunately, I lost the baby. 😦

I just wanted to chime in so if any lurkers were reading they wouldn’t be scared off NFP.
 
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Lorrie:
She’s not saying that’s it the end all be all, but sex is highly important in any marriage I think. Its when a husband and wife bond, when they feel that unmistakable closeness. I don’t think not having sex for a few months would make a marriage crumble, but it definitely wouldn’t help matters.
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**I am in a situation where abstaining from sex has actually helped my marriage. You see, I too have chronic health problems. We started out our marriage by using ABC (I was not Catholic and I was not comfortable “trusting” NFP). Slowly, during my conversion, I learned to put more trust in God while having my eyes opened to the evils of ABC.
We were at a point in our marriage where I wanted to ditch the ABC and learn NFP…but I was sooo scared. I was terrified of getting pregnant and had no idea how it would affect my health. I was also terrified that I would not be a good mother because of my health.
**My wonderfully supportive husband went without sex for months at a time while I became more comfortable with how my body worked and learned to read it’s signs. (This took almost a year as the ABC really messed up my system!). **
This made our marriage better because it helped us see that we needed to be true partners no matter what. We needed to do what was best for our marriage and what was pleasing to God no matter how tough it may be. It brought us so much closer together than sex ever had.
Now, I am pregnant. No, it was not “planned”…but it was also not a “failure” of NFP. After my hubby got back from a 2 month absence (he is military) we decided to make love during a risky time. We left the results up to God. God saw fit to bless us with a child. I am still terrified. But I also accept that God will help me through this and whatever suffering I may have to do will ultimately bring glory to Him.
I am even thinking ahead to post-pregnancy and how I will effectively prevent another pregnancy and I am scared. But, no matter how scared I get, my husband and I are committed to not offending God. So we will never get sterilized or use ABC. If it comes down to it, we will abstain for as long as necessary while working on how to use NFP effectively. But this will only work because we are both committed to it. If one spouse is not, then I agree, it would be a recipe for disaster.
So, Lorarose, I feel for you. I feel your frustration, your anger, your helplessness…I feel your pain. I hear you. But no matter how I feel, I cannot condone the use of ABC. I cannot make you think it is ok to commit a mortal sin and endanger your soul. I will pray that you can come to peace with your situation and that you can find a solution to prevent any future pregnancies if they are not in you or your family’s best interests. But I will also pray for you to feel God’s presence and love at this time and that He give you the strength and the courage to accept His will…whatever it may be.
Malia
 
God bless you and your newest little one! I’m sorry that this is very hard for you. I can tell from your posts that it’s a lot to bear and I can’t imagine going through it myself.

I honestly can’t add much more than what’s already been said because I’ve never been in your situation. I’m a new mom for the first time. I just wanted to restate what someone above said, in case you missed it in the middle of all this…There are many methods of NFP. Have you tried more than one? For me, the first method I used didn’t help much. (However, we were trying to GET pregnant, so it’s a different situation.) Maybe, once your baby is born, you could look into a different method and see if it works better for you. Each woman’s body is so unique. It’s no wonder the same form of NFP doesn’t work for everyone.

I sincerely hope your health improves and that you and your whole family are blessed in everything. You’re in my prayers.
 
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Lorrie:
Perhaps we should stop being so judgemental. She’s human, she’s not perfect.** NFP failed her, this is obvious, and its failed others as well - nothing is 100% (nor is it 99% when you factor in how sensitive a woman’s body is and how easy it is to get off track a bit hormonally).** Lets all try and give the woman a break. She has 5 kids, health issues, etc. I don’t blame her for being down in the dumps at all, my word, I would be too if I was practicing something like NFP to the “T” and it failed me and knowing I had my SIXTH child on the way while my health was already a major issue.
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Maybe we could look at it as NOT that NFP failed her, but that God stepped in and overrid it. Afterall, He, ultimately, is the one who decides whether life will result from a specific act of lovemaking, quite aside from how we have planned it. And this is a very good thing. As wonderful as total control sounds, in practice it will only bring more chaos and overwhelming-ness. We would be at the mercy of our own caprices and whims.

I will add my prayers for you, too, Lorarose. May the Heart of Mary envelope you and fill you with the perfect peace of her Son.
 
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Consecrated:
Maybe we could look at it as NOT that NFP failed her, but that God stepped in and overrid it. Afterall, He, ultimately, is the one who decides whether life will result from a specific act of lovemaking, quite aside from how we have planned it. And this is a very good thing. As wonderful as total control sounds, in practice it will only bring more chaos and overwhelming-ness. We would be at the mercy of our own caprices and whims.

I will add my prayers for you, too, Lorarose. May the Heart of Mary envelope you and fill you with the perfect peace of her Son.
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Wow, well I didn’t think of it like that. I guess its always easier to just think of it as black and white. Thank you for opening my eyes. 🙂
 
I think John Ennis is right though, God would really have to intervene for a woman to be pregnant in phase three. Once the egg is gone, it’s gone. Most NFP oops are due to either too late coitus in phase one, or freaky super long lasting sperm. Also, I’ve read that multiple coitus can change the alkalinity of the vagina and allow sperm to survive longer.
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But this statement shows a bit of why I’m frustrated with the whole business.
Remember - we’ve told ourselves and other questioning catholics that NFP is easy and it’s 99% affective.

And yet, on this thread, we have seen how many variables truly affect the process. The sperm can last longer than expected. More than one egg can be released - sometimes at the same time, sometimes at a much different time. Hormones can mess up the cyce. Thyroid problems (which I have) can mess up the signs and the cycle. Mucus can send mixed messages, and you don’t figure it out until it’s too late.

So, it turns out not to be as easy as thought or as affective.
 
john ennis:
NFP didn’t work for us once, too.
It worked for someone else. Her name is Megan.
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It also worked for someone else. His name is God.
 
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Lorarose:
I don’t see one whit of helpful objectiveness there. It seems strangely bitter and a bit spiteful to boot.
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I believe the word is SARCASM. Not meant to be spiteful…merely sarcastic. I apologize if you found this hurtful…it was not intended that way. Only trying to point out that if your health and mental well being hinges on not having any more babies then drastic measures may be necessary for you and your husband to ensure that conception doesn’t happen. With all your health issues, hormonal imbalances, etc…total abstinence may be your only option for awhile.

I would much rather practice total abstinence than consider ABC or sterilization. That is Church teaching plane and simple.
 
Feanaro’s Wife said:
****
**I am in a situation where abstaining from sex *has ***actually helped my marriage… My wonderfully supportive husband went without sex for months at a time while I became more comfortable with how my body worked and learned to read it’s signs. (This took almost a year as the ABC really messed up my system!).
This made our marriage better because it helped us see that we needed to be true partners no matter what. We needed to do what was best for our marriage and what was pleasing to God no matter how tough it may be. It brought us so much closer together than sex ever had.
…But I also accept that God will help me through this and whatever suffering I may have to do will ultimately bring glory to Him.
… But, no matter how scared I get, my husband and I are committed to not offending God. So we will never get sterilized or use ABC. If it comes down to it, we will abstain for as long as necessary while working on how to use NFP effectively. But this will only work because we are both committed to it. If one spouse is not, then I agree, it would be a recipe for disaster.
So, Lorarose, I feel for you. I feel your frustration, your anger, your helplessness…I feel your pain. I hear you. But no matter how I feel, I cannot condone the use of ABC. I cannot make you think it is ok to commit a mortal sin and endanger your soul. I will pray that you can come to peace with your situation and that you can find a solution to prevent any future pregnancies if they are not in you or your family’s best interests. But I will also pray for you to feel God’s presence and love at this time and that He give you the strength and the courage to accept His will…whatever it may be.
Malia
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You are a wonderful witness to our Catholic faith. Keep up the good work!
 
Feanaro’s Wife said:
****
. If it comes down to it, we will abstain for as long as necessary while working on how to use NFP effectively. But this will only work because we are both committed to it. If one spouse is not, then I agree, it would be a recipe for disaster]
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Thanks for your post. Abstinence is not the end of a marriage. And don’t forget, it’s about the only thing that separates us from the other animals - If you are ever criticized for the decisions you make, remind people of this. It definitely will give them something to think about!!
 
With all your health issues, hormonal imbalances, etc…total abstinence may be your only option for awhile.
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total abstinence is not an option.
I would much rather practice total abstinence than consider ABC or sterilization. That is Church teaching plane and simple.
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Good for you. You are clearly a much better person than I am.
 
It also worked for someone else. His name is God
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For cryin’ out loud you cannot be serious?
It has occurred to you - hasn’t it? That the VIRGIN Mary never practiced NFP?

This is getting ridiculous.
 
Lorarose, I urge you to take a break from this thread. It is obviously not helping you and seems to be adding to your frustration.

** Do something that you feel will help you (prayer, Mass, etc) to feel God’s presence again. He has not abandoned you. My guess is that He may even be using some people on this forum to speak to you but you are not ready to listen. Take some time for yourself and then come back and read with fresh eyes and a fresh heart…please. I will pray for you.**
malia
 
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Lorrie:
By your name here I can only assume you’re a guy so I have to ask you a question: Do you realize how easy it is for a woman’s body to get off track? Simple stress can throw a woman’s hormones off enormously, the end result being irregular periods, off dated ovulation, etc.

Scenario: A 12 or 13 year old girl gets her first period at the very beginning of the month - throughout her life she has no children, do you think for the rest of her child bearing years that she will always get her period at the beginning of the month?

No you won’t be graded on the above question. 😛
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Ovulation is not determined by timing in any of the up-to-date NFP methods. Ovulation,whether by the sympto-thermal or billings methods is indicated by evidence within the woman’s body.
Whether she is regular or not has nothing to do with this. The time of ovulation is determined quite accurately.

Again–regularity has nothing to with this.

Peace.
John
 
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Lorarose:
For cryin’ out loud you cannot be serious?
It has occurred to you - hasn’t it? That the VIRGIN Mary never practiced NFP?

This is getting ridiculous.
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Where did I mention the Virgin Mary?
 
Feanaro’s Wife said:
Lorarose, I urge you to take a break from this thread. It is obviously not helping you and seems to be adding to your frustration.

** Do something that you feel will help you (prayer, Mass, etc) to feel God’s presence again. He has not abandoned you. My guess is that He may even be using some people on this forum to speak to you but you are not ready to listen. Take some time for yourself and then come back and read with fresh eyes and a fresh heart…please. I will pray for you.**
malia
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This is very wise advice. :yup:
 
john ennis:
NFP didn’t work for us once, too.
It worked for someone else. Her name is Megan.
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What a beautiful way of putting it!

Lorarose, I can certainly feel for you. We have 9 children, one of whom was actually ‘planned.’ Some of those are from not bothering to learn NFP correctly (getting pregnant wasn’t that big a deal). Some are from taking a chance on the nights I knew I could conceive. And then there’s the month my husband was doing massive overtime, and I had finally taken classes, and I was charting and taking my temperature and checking all my signs. ONE night, only one out of the whole month, three days before even the exteme early-outside chance of conception should have been physically possible by everything NFP teaches… and I got not one, but TWO babies out of it!

So here are two totally contradictory thoughts:

1-- I can see the humor in that situation now, although I didn’t at the time. I love my children greatly. I thank God often, frequently, daily, that things have gone according to His plan and not mine, even (maybe especially) with the baby, who, like another poster said about one of hers, I ‘didn’t want’ literally right up till the moment of birth. NOW I am very grateful for all the times either I or NFP failed.

2-- Minus the health problems, I’m struggling with NFP for all the reasons you are and having ALL the same thoughts and feelings about it that you are. You are not alone. I, too, have struggled very hard not to be a cafeteria Catholic.
 
Lorarose, I don’t think I have a right to tell you what you should do in your own bedroom. I don’t walk in your shoes so I cannot tell you what type of method you should use. I don’t agree on sterilization but you definitely tried to work the NFP and it did not work. I would strongly suggest that you first discuss this with your husband, of course, then your doctor, and then your parish priest. I think everybody’s circumstanes are different and maybe you need to speak with your pastor and let him know the difficulties you are having living the Catholic Christian life. It is very hard to abstain for months and I really don’t think anyone can do this. Marriage is a giving of each other and relations are part of being marriage. Depriving your spouse of this would be wrong. Talk to your parish priest and I believe he will give you the right spiritual guidance that you are seeking.
 
Lorarose,
I love your sense of humor with all the threads, and I love your cynicism. I too am a cynical person, so I REALLY appreciated your come-backs I LOL for the first time in weeks… I’m currently pregnant with #3, but #1 and #2 were “practice” NFP babies… so, basically it didn’t work for me either cuz I kept getting pregnant before I could figure out what the heck I was doing wrong. Love the kids, I do trust God, but I’m not a person wanting tons of kids… God bless those who do, of course.

I just want to say that I completely understand your disgust at God, the church, and the whole NFP experience. In talking to some fairly strong Catholic friends, I have found that even though NFP is beautiful, wonderful, etc. when it’s time to stop having kids, either because physically, mentally, emotionally, etc., then talk to your doctor, talk to your priest, and do something else to prevent it (they did). I’ll probably get he** for this, but even though I practice NFP for now, after #3, or #4 (not sure yet), I want to stop having kids. I won’t do a tubal, and I won’t take drugs… but there are some other methods that I can try that will probably be do-able for me. I also know that the church makes provisions for those with physical health problems to use some of the contraceptives available because to not use them is life-threatening or debilitating. Your case sounds like it fits.

In any case, keep up the humor, and feel free to be disgusted with the whole darned thing. I know I was when #2 came so quickly after #1 (dd was only 8 mos. old). I told God that I wasn’t going to use NFP anymore because it didn’t work for me… but then He gave me grace and I made a deal with Him and figured it out. I’m not perfect though, and like I said, I will stop having kids after #3 or #4 one way or another. I guess I just wanted to say I sympathize with your situation greatly, and I know that pretty soon this will somehow work out too…just right now it’s pretty depressing. Babies are supposed to be happy things, but sometimes they just aren’t at first.

And I agree, not having sex with DH is NOT an option. I won’t go into detail and shouldn’t have to. People should understand that aspect of marriage is important.

And of course, I’ll be praying for you… This is not an easy fight with God. He will come through for you though, He hasn’t let me down yet, and He won’t let you down either.

God bless,
-Amy
 
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