Great...just great

[Lorarose]

Catholics don’t pretend problems like yours don’t exist.

Sometimes it seems that way when my motives are called into question, or my understanding of the situation is called into question.
It seems like people don’t want to admit that maybe NFP isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
I’ve seen on many threads how young people are told it is 99% effective and easy to use. And when someone pipes in that it didn’t work for them they are told they didn’t chart correctly, they didn’t read the signs, they weren’t conservative enough.
So…then it seems to me it isn’t as easy for some people as they were assured - and it just might not be 99% effective.
This is where my cynical side takes over and I’m wondering if I’ve been fed a bunch of propoganda.

Catholics just approach the problems with a trust in God’s divine providence and with the assurance that with the help of God’s grace they will be able to endure the hardship. Sounds like trusting God is something you are battling right now. Perhaps you need to refill your tank with grace. Do you receive the sacraments regularly? Do you pray for grace? Do you pray to Mary and the saints?

I don’t know if trusting God is my problem so much as trusing NFP is my problem.
I do receive the sacraments.
I don’t have the prayer life I used to - but that is because I used to have more time and less distractions.

You and your husband may have to abstain for longer periods during the month. You may not be accustomed to this or WANT to get accustomed to having less sex in your marriage. It would be a sacrafice no doubt. Perhaps, as one poster said, you are being given a higher calling. “To whom much is entrusted, much is expected”.

I have a hard time accepting the idea that couples are expected to live sexless - or near sexless marriages.
It seems to me that is a recipe for disaster.

 

[Lorarose]

NFP didn’t work for us once, too.
It worked for someone else. Her name is Megan.

I understand the point…but what I’m trying to say is that I could wind up having 4-5 more babies if I stick with the NFP.

 

[DVIN_CKS]

Lorarose:

I have a hard time accepting the idea that couples are expected to live sexless - or near sexless marriages.
It seems to me that is a recipe for disaster.

Recipe for disaster??? Any more of a “disaster” than what you are currently in right now? You might only be trading apples for oranges, but you’ll still be left with fruit.

I’m not saying sex isn’t important in a marriage, but I think our society tries to make it out like it is the END ALL BE ALL. God forbid husbands and wives have to abstain for a few months or even a year! Heavens to Betsy what will they do?? Their marriage will just crumble! Pahhhhhhleassssse!!!

Abstinence might just be the best thing in some instances but the couple is so convinced that it can’t be done without the marriage falling apart that they never put their trust in God to give them the grace to endure a “dry patch”. No one has ever died because they couldn’t have sex.

 

[Lorarose]

“Recipe for disaster??? Any more of a “disaster” than what you are currently in right now?”

yes - that’s what I said.

I’m not saying sex isn’t important in a marriage,

It sure sounds like it.

God forbid husbands and wives have to abstain for a few months or even a year! Heavens to Betsy what will they do?? Their marriage will just crumble! Pahhhhhhleassssse!!!

And this mocking tone of yours would be the part where it sounds like you are saying sex isn’t important in a marriage.

Abstinence might just be the best thing in some instances but the couple is so convinced that it can’t be done without the marriage falling apart that they never put their trust in God to give them the grace to endure a “dry patch”.

Or…abstinence might NOT be the best thing.
I’m slowly getting the feeling you consider yourself an expert on many things. Are you?

 

[Lorrie]

DVIN CKS:

Recipe for disaster??? Any more of a “disaster” than what you are currently in right now? You might only be trading apples for oranges, but you’ll still be left with fruit.

I’m not saying sex isn’t important in a marriage, but I think our society tries to make it out like it is the END ALL BE ALL. God forbid husbands and wives have to abstain for a few months or even a year! Heavens to Betsy what will they do?? Their marriage will just crumble! Pahhhhhhleassssse!!!

Abstinence might just be the best thing in some instances but the couple is so convinced that it can’t be done without the marriage falling apart that they never put their trust in God to give them the grace to endure a “dry patch”. No one has ever died because they couldn’t have sex.

She’s not saying that’s it the end all be all, but sex is highly important in any marriage I think. Its when a husband and wife bond, when they feel that unmistakable closeness. I don’t think not having sex for a few months would make a marriage crumble, but it definitely wouldn’t help matters.

Perhaps we should stop being so judgemental. She’s human, she’s not perfect. NFP failed her, this is obvious, and its failed others as well - nothing is 100% (nor is it 99% when you factor in how sensitive a woman’s body is and how easy it is to get off track a bit hormonally). Lets all try and give the woman a break. She has 5 kids, health issues, etc. I don’t blame her for being down in the dumps at all, my word, I would be too if I was practicing something like NFP to the “T” and it failed me and knowing I had my SIXTH child on the way while my health was already a major issue.

Lets try and be a little compassionate please.

 

[Lorrie]

And just to add DVIN, you are coming across quite pompous and arrogant, perhaps an attitude adjustment is in order. You claim to be Catholic yet your posts are so uncaring, so unsympathetic, show some heart please.

 

[DVIN_CKS]

Lorarose:

I’m slowly getting the feeling you consider yourself an expert on many things. Are you?

Heavens no…I’ve never claimed to be.

 

[Brenda_V]

Lorarose,

I like your name it is very pretty.

I wanted to comment on at least two things (might turn into more as I write).

The first is, you have a thyroid problem. Your thyroid controls so much of your bodies functions that it could even cause you to ovulate more than you are seeing signs for. I say get that thyroid under control (and it can take quite a bit of time to do that) and then try the NFP again. Of course consider a different method, there are so many out there.

Next, your diet can indeed have a lot to do with how you feel. I am highly sensitive to wheat and it is in consuming this that I get moody and can indeed become clinically depressed! I fight PMS depression but find that if I stay away from all wheat it lasts the more manageable two or three days. Consider the vitamins mentioned in the previous post by maryceleste (I like that name too!).

I am going to go back to the thyroid, boy, that is a big part of the picture here. Even while pregnant you need to work on getting that under control!

Last, I kept getting the “feeling” that this was more likely a non–pregnancy pregnancy (blighted ovum) because of your thyroid. When you call your mid-wife tell her of your other health issues, especially the thyroid and I will bet she will see you much sooner!

God has made us in wonderful ways but due to sin coming into the world our bodies do not always work the way He created them to work. If your thyroid is out of whack many of your other hormones can be thrown off balance. The same with inuslin - with the range from just being insulin resistant, hypoglycemic or full blown diabetes (either Type1 or 2 where you require insulin injections).

I just want you to make sure to get the medical care you need and the sooner the better, I can almost guarantee that your family members who are helping you care for your children while you go to Drs. appts. are more than willing to continue to help you until this all gets taken care of!

You have a lot to be cranky about (which also goes with an out of whack thyroid).

My prayers will be with you and I will be checking for this thread to see how things are going! Here is a cyber hug for you (()) from one of your sisters in Christ who lives too far away to physically help you out.

Brenda V.

 

[DVIN_CKS]

Lorrie:

Perhaps we should stop being so judgemental. She’s human, she’s not perfect. NFP failed her, this is obvious, and its failed others as well - nothing is 100% (nor is it 99% when you factor in how sensitive a woman’s body is and how easy it is to get off track a bit hormonally). Lets all try and give the woman a break. She has 5 kids, health issues, etc. I don’t blame her for being down in the dumps at all, my word, I would be too if I was practicing something like NFP to the “T” and it failed me and knowing I had my SIXTH child on the way while my health was already a major issue.

Lets try and be a little compassionate please.

I don’t think I’m being judgemental. I’m sorry if I have come off that way. I’m just trying to see things from an objective point of view and not an emotional one. I don’t think emotions should be the OP’s guide here. She needs to go talk to a good priest who can explain why the Church’s teaching on NFP is not something that she can decide for herself to toss in the garbage.

I’m sorry that this woman is in the dumps. I don’t mean to sound uncharitable. I’m merely trying to point out that there are other options - abstinence certainly being one of them - to avoid future pregnancies. If this equates to not showing any compassion then forgive me. I just don’t believe in giving a drowning man a glass of water.

 

[DVIN_CKS]

Lorrie:

And just to add DVIN, you are coming across quite pompous and arrogant, perhaps an attitude adjustment is in order. You claim to be Catholic yet your posts are so uncaring, so unsympathetic, show some heart please.

And you call me judgmental??? The pot calling the kettle black!

 

[Lorrie]

DVIN CKS:

And you call me judgmental??? The pot calling the kettle black!

Its not the pot calling the kettle black, its just me informing you of the obvious. Go back and read your posts thoroughly concerning this thread, they aren’t the nicest for sure, just my opinion.

 

[kage_ar]

Just a wee bit of advice here, our OP does sound so stressed… my note to you - please remember, it is perfectly okay to cut back on some things to save your sanity and health.

5 kids - if only 3 of them are involved in sports or other extra-cirricular activities, that can exhaust even a super hero! Saying no to T-ball this year does NOT make you a bad mom, a messy living room also does not make you a bad mom.

I second the poster - if you lived on my street, I’d come over tonight and we’d make Pizza and keep the kids while you went for a pedicure or a movie…
You mentioned giving enough time or attention to each child - my mother raised 4 kids (and she has severe health problems while homeschooling, as well as working full time…) - she would give each child one hour per week, alone with her. That was just me and mom time. I still remember sweing lessons, or reading together - the things I did in “my hour”. Might that work?

 

[nova147]

Lorarose -

A lot has been said here. I hope only that whatever I add can bring some peace to your heart.

Others posting here -

This is not the time to berate this poor woman with theology about NFP and contracteption and being open to life. She is facing a cross that seems much too heavy for her to bear and it is a cross that will be with her for a long time. In the months and years ahead, she will doubtlessly need to confront these issues again. But right now, perhaps it is best for her to feel what she is feeling and be a little (or a lot) angry with God.

Lorarose -

I do not have practical advice for you. I am only beginning my journey as a mother and have been blessed with good health. I can offer you prayers, for your health and whatever blessings God wishes bestow upon you (and especially for the blessing of His peace in your heart). I do want to briefly share a friend’s story. She has six darling children and is an extremely devout Catholic Christian. Her oldest 5 are boys. When she found out she was pregnant with her third, she really wanted a girl. When the ultrasound revealed a little boy, she was upset with God. She told Him about it. With baby number four, the same thing happened. With baby number five, she was a bit beyond angry. She didn’t speak with God for several weeks. She loves all of her boys dearly . . . as she loves God. She has told me frequently that sometimes we do have to be angry and tell Him so (and sometimes even not tell Him). In time, the rawness of this will diminish.

Congratulations on your new little one. God bless you.

Mary Jo

 

[MaryD7]

Lararose, I sent you a ‘private message’ but since it’s the first time I ever did that I’m not sure if you will get notified of it or not.
(Does anyone else know?)

I do want to congratulate you on your surprise. But it’s just such surprises that can really throw our lives into a tizzy. Not fun.

Write me back if you want.

God bless,

Mary

 

[luvmykids]

Lorarose:

Sometimes it seems that way when my motives are called into question, or my understanding of the situation is called into question.
It seems like people don’t want to admit that maybe NFP isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
I’ve seen on many threads how young people are told it is 99% effective and easy to use. And when someone pipes in that it didn’t work for them they are told they didn’t chart correctly, they didn’t read the signs, they weren’t conservative enough.
So…then it seems to me it isn’t as easy for some people as they were assured - and it just might not be 99% effective.
This is where my cynical side takes over and I’m wondering if I’ve been fed a bunch of propoganda.

I don’t know if trusting God is my problem so much as trusing NFP is my problem.
I do receive the sacraments.
I don’t have the prayer life I used to - but that is because I used to have more time and less distractions.

I have a hard time accepting the idea that couples are expected to live sexless - or near sexless marriages.
It seems to me that is a recipe for disaster.

Do you understand that ABC isn’t all it’s cracked up to be? It’s just going to end up hurting you in the end, worse than you are hurting now. I do see why you are having a hard time with all of this and I feel for you. But ABC is not the answer. It’s just taking the problems you now have and making them worse. A tubal would do your body even greater physical damage. I’ve read of it causing health problems of it’s own. It is not the way your body was meant to function. Using ABC would be like trying to get rid of an odor in your house by masking it with perfume instead of trying to get rid of the problem causing the odor. Sorry if that sounded like a bad analogy, I’m trying. I have gone through some of the same emotions about nfp as you are going through right now. You will be in my prayers.

 

[Lorarose]

I don’t think I’m being judgemental. I’m sorry if I have come off that way

I agree with Lorrie. You come off as pompous and judgemental.

I’m just trying to see things from an objective point of view and not an emotional one

This seems odd coming from you.
Let me revisit your over the top - emotional post…

Originally Posted by DVIN CKS
Recipe for disaster??? Any more of a “disaster” than what you are currently in right now? You might only be trading apples for oranges, but you’ll still be left with fruit.

I’m not saying sex isn’t important in a marriage, but I think our society tries to make it out like it is the END ALL BE ALL. God forbid husbands and wives have to abstain for a few months or even a year! Heavens to Betsy what will they do?? Their marriage will just crumble! Pahhhhhhleassssse!!!

I don’t see one whit of helpful objectiveness there. It seems strangely bitter and a bit spiteful to boot.

 

[Lorarose]

she would give each child one hour per week, alone with her. That was just me and mom time. I still remember sweing lessons, or reading together - the things I did in “my hour”. Might that work?

The little guys see more of me…but this is a good idea for my older ones. Thank you.

She has told me frequently that sometimes we do have to be angry and tell Him so (and sometimes even not tell Him). In time, the rawness of this will diminish.

I understand about anger at God. I lost a little girl 7 years ago.
This isn’t like that. I’m not angry at God…I’m just frustrated with the fact I was doing what I thought I was supposed to be doing, and here I am.
I don’t blame God for that. I’m just wondering if it’s time to do things differently.
It’s nice to see God blessed your friend with that little girl.

Lararose, I sent you a ‘private message’ but since it’s the first time I ever did that I’m not sure if you will get notified of it or not.
(Does anyone else know?)

I do want to congratulate you on your surprise. But it’s just such surprises that can really throw our lives into a tizzy. Not fun.

I got your messge and sent a reply. Thank you!

It’s just taking the problems you now have and making them worse. A tubal would do your body even greater physical damage. I’ve read of it causing health problems of it’s own.

How so? I know women who have had them and they never talk about any problems.

 

[Lorarose]

Last, I kept getting the “feeling” that this was more likely a non–pregnancy pregnancy (blighted ovum) because of your thyroid. When you call your mid-wife tell her of your other health issues, especially the thyroid and I will bet she will see you much sooner!

Thanks Brenda. I hadn’t thought about bringing up the thyroid business with my midwife, but now that you mention it there is a thyroid expert working next to her office - maybe she can refer me to him as well.

 

[john_ennis]

You are enduring real trials and suffering. I’m praying for you.

I think your criticism of NFP as a cause is off base, though.

You resent being told that artificial contraception is wrong; that’s specifically what you’re saying, isn’t it?

I think situations like this create grounds for people to question Church teaching like contraception from a distorted perspective. What I mean is, some people are talking in this thread like the only way planned abstinance can be 99% effective is to simply abstain totally.

But the time of ovulation is very accurately determined. The period after ovulation is infertile.

It is only the days between menstruation and ovulation that can create a “gray area,” and which can vary from woman to woman and cycle to cycle.

Seems to me that even the most conservative use of NFP would require abstinance during those days (all of them), and no more than that.

Peace.
John

 

[Lorrie]

john ennis:

You are enduring real trials and suffering. I’m praying for you.

I think your criticism of NFP as a cause is off base, though.

You resent being told that artificial contraception is wrong; that’s specifically what you’re saying, isn’t it?

I think situations like this create grounds for people to question Church teaching like contraception from a distorted perspective. What I mean is, some people are talking in this thread like the only way planned abstinance can be 99% effective is to simply abstain totally.

But the time of ovulation is very accurately determined. The period after ovulation is infertile.

It is only the days between menstruation and ovulation that can create a “gray area,” and which can vary from woman to woman and cycle to cycle.

Seems to me that even the most conservative use of NFP would require abstinance during those days (all of them), and no more than that.

Peace.
John

By your name here I can only assume you’re a guy so I have to ask you a question: Do you realize how easy it is for a woman’s body to get off track? Simple stress can throw a woman’s hormones off enormously, the end result being irregular periods, off dated ovulation, etc.

Scenario: A 12 or 13 year old girl gets her first period at the very beginning of the month - throughout her life she has no children, do you think for the rest of her child bearing years that she will always get her period at the beginning of the month?

No you won’t be graded on the above question.