Greko Catolic Bishop for Atheni

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Plenty whiich I don’t have to the time to look up, if they are archived somewhere (I’ve seen them in the print media, including Catholic print media): one I remember was at the papal mass in Central America (Nicaragua?) where he made a reference about those who used to have love in their heart for the Blessed Virgin and do not anymore, and those who turned them away from her.
If these examples are legion show some good faith effort and offer a citation of an analagous Vatican-lodged complain against an actual institution. You took the time to write long responses after this, and you wrote 20+ posts yesterday throughout the day, and you avererage 17+ posts per day. So do some sharing.

The fact is your example isn’t analagous - the Pope is calling the faithful back to the flock, not complaining about a long-standing independent non-Catholic body getting its own leadership.

You know that.
 
I usually cross myself when passing one of the Vatican’s churches, as well as the Orthodox.

I purposely go out of my way not to pass Josaphat here in Chicago.
You live in Rome?

Oh, you mean a Catholic Church!

Polemic semantics like that help to show your colors and your feelings. Keep it up.
 
Yes, of course. Only state action would make anyone want to be Orthodox. St. Alexis Toth worked for the KGB.:rolleyes:
Sarcastic much? Who said he worked for the KGB…

But on the little matter of Father Toth having support and discretionary income from the Russian imperial treasury… Well you get no argument from me there. In fact he did.
Only state action would make anyone want to be Orthodox.
No, I wouldn’t think that. Apparently the robbers of the state-controled terror synod of Lviv thought so. Go figure.
 
Of course, from your exspoused view, Brest did no wrong.
What is to be said about any compromise by the Church’s leaders, be it PoM Alexis or Archbishop Wielgus.
A nice way to let them off the hook and at the same time be forgiving and approving.
No dodge. I don’t approve of Lvov anymore than I do Brest (is that a robber synod too?): perhaps less as I expect more of the Orthodox. I expect nothing from the Communiists: what are/were we to expect from our “Christian Brothers” who funded and enforced by the sword Brest?
You should approve FAR LESS of Lviv - Brest is not the great victimization you seem to assume we all accept it as.

“The sword of Brest”? Please.
 
Lies on the part of the anti-catholic radicals - Peter the Great himself killed Greek Catholic priests with his own sword, not to mention the Imperial governemnt destroyed by force the Greek Catholic Church in central Ukraine and Belarus
Still denying that the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth destoyed (or tried to) by force the Orthodox Church in central Ukraine and Belarus.

Peter the “Great,” in a stupor from Westoxification, did many things, including killing Orthodox. So your point was to show…?

The sound principles of Catholicism, however, were maintained and propagated by the Jesuits who, suppressed by the Holy See and exiled from the Catholic nations, found an asylum and the centre of their future revival in Russia. In 1779 Catharine II invited the Jesuits to exercise their ministry in White Russia, and in 1786 they had in Russia six colleges and 178 members. Their number increased so much that Pius VII re-established their order for Russia, where it returned to life under Father Gruber. In 1801 the society had 262 members, and 347 in 1811. The Jesuits retained a lively gratitude for the hospitality that they had received in Russia, and worked with zeal to convert it to Catholicism.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Btw, what is the difference between the bishops who signed Brest and Metropolitan Siestrzencewicz?
The first dismemberment of Poland (1772) brought a strong body of Catholics to Russia, and Catharine II proposed to make of them a national Church, independent of Rome. Unfortunately an ambitious Polish bishop, Stanislaus Siestrzencewicz, entered into her views, and a ukase of 23 May, 1774 established the Diocese of White Russia, with its episcopal see at Mohileff, its first bishop being Siestrzencewicz, Vicar-General of Vilna. This personage is judged variously by historians. Pierling, Zalenski, and Markovitch treat him as an ambitious man who sought to become patriarch of all the Catholics in Russia, and who in his heart hated the Roman See. Godlewski on the contrary is inclined to excuse him, and to believe that the difficult conditions of Catholicism in Russia, possibly led him to adopt measures that appear to have been injurious to Catholic interests. According to Markovitch, during his long episcopate (1774-1826), Siestrzencewicz was the scourge of the Catholic Church of both rites in Russia. By her manifestos of 1779 Catharine II began the systematic destruction of the religious orders, withdrawing them from the authority of their religious superiors, and putting them under the jurisdiction of the Bishop of Mohileff. The latter in 1782 was raised to the archiepiscopal dignity, and in 1784 received the pallium from the Apostolic Legate, Mgr. Giovanni Andrea Archetti, Archbishop of Chalcedon. He assumed episcopal jurisdiction over all the Catholics of the Russian Empire, and acted as if he were independent of the Holy See.
newadvent.org/cathen/13253a.htm

Siestrzencewicz later also took the title of primate of Lithuania, from the Mother Church of Lithuania, in whose crypt we find:


upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Fresco_in_Vilnius_Cathedral_crypt.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Fresco_in_Vilnius_Cathedral_crypt.jpg

How’d that get there?
When the time came for Jogaila to choose a wife, it became clear that he intended to marry a Christian. His Russian mother urged him to marry Sofia, daughter of Prince Dmitri of Moscow, who required him first to convert to Orthodoxy.[15] That option, however, was unlikely to halt the crusades against Lithuania by the Teutonic Order, who regarded Orthodox Christians as schismatics and little better than heathens.[12][4]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jogaila#Baptism_and_marriage
^ The historian John Meyendorff suggests Jogaila may have already been an Orthodox Christian: “In 1377, Olgerd of Lithuania died, leaving the Grand Principality to his son Jagiello, an Orthodox Christian…”. Byzantium and the Rise of Russia, 205. Dmitri, however, made it a condition of the marriage that Jogaila “should be baptized in the Orthodox faith and that he should proclaim his Christianity to all men”. Document quoted by Dvornik, 221.
books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN9639116424&id=5aoId7nA4bsC&pg=PA180&lpg=PA180&vq=Jogaila&dq=Wigand+Poland&sig=hRbejRY9-Ay7Gy3_tYc3_CyZzLk#PPA181,M1
^ a b c d e f Bojtár, 180–186
New Cambridge Medieval History, 709–712.
fourtunately I know plenty of Eastern Orthodox Christians who are nothing like you, whom appear to hold much hate, by refering to us as “the vatican”
I’m not ashamed of being in communion with Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem etc…

If you are ashamed of whom you are in communion with, to the point of calling the mention “hate,” I can’t help you.
and mocking and insulting our saints
example?
and saying we have no right to exist,
quote?
as a matter of fact the communists used the exact same language
the communists paid a lot of lip service to social justice, so maybe we should apply your ad hominem argument to discredit that concept too.
You should be careful, becuase there are others reading this forum unfamiliar with the…Orthodox religion and your open hostility and hate is the first impression they get of it, and that is a great disservice, I would of thought by now one of your co-religionists would of sent you a priate message telling you to calm down and be more Christian like, I guess not
So that slander might go unanswered?

Many of us have agreed to the condemnation of Lvov as an injustice.

I"ve yet to see an admission that Brest was less than the loftiest or morals.
 
If these examples are legion show some good faith effort and offer a citation of an analagous Vatican-lodged complain against an actual institution. You took the time to write long responses after this, and you wrote 20+ posts yesterday throughout the day, and you avererage 17+ posts per day. So do some sharing.
As you point out, I am busy with the Orthodox. The Protestants can defend themselves.
but for an example:

In addition to Caritas, the other major nongovernment organizer of communal kitchens and mothers’ clubs in Lima was the Seventh Day Adventist Church, which reflected the increasing importance of the Evangelical Movement. Although only about 4.5 percent of Peru’s population was Protestant, the Evangelical Movement was extremely active at the grassroots level, and, as aforementioned, was critical to the victory of Fujimori and Cambio ‘90 in poor areas. **The Catholic Church hierarchy felt sufficiently threatened by the Evangelicals’ support for Fujimori that it unofficially backed Vargas Llosa, an agnostic, against Fujimori, a Catholic. **
countrystudies.us/peru/86.htm
Note: that hiearchy was/is Fujimori’s.
Oh, and btw, Llosa married his aunt (by marriage), writing a novel on the experience, La tía Julia y el escribidor (Aunt Julia and the Scriptwriter). She wrote a response: Lo que Varguitas no dijo (What little Vargas didn’t say). He then married his first cousin after their divorce. Good thing the bishops were supporting the moral vote.:rolleyes:
The fact is your example isn’t analagous - the Pope is calling the faithful back to the flock,
if they have to be called back to the flock, they can’t be described as the faithful, now can they?
not complaining about a long-standing independent non-Catholic body getting its own leadership.
Yes, trying to make sure that non-Catholic body NOT become longstanding and get its own leadership.

The Orthodox have been fighting the “unions” since before the ink was dry. No difference again.
You know that.
You’re right, I know what I know.
 
Sarcastic much? Who said he worked for the KGB…

But on the little matter of Father Toth having support and discretionary income from the Russian imperial treasury… Well you get no argument from me there. In fact he did.
Yes, the Imperial Russian treasury gave support to all the priests of the Orthodox Church in America. This differs how from the treasury of the Papal states, and other places, like say, the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth, where the Vatican’s church was state supported? As you see above, taxes on the Orthodox was an issue of why Brest was, and why (because its adherents ended up paying tax to both their hierarchy and the Latin hierarchy) support soon evaporated.
No, I wouldn’t think that. Apparently the robbers of the state-controled terror synod of Lviv thought so. Go figure.
And this differs from the enforcers of Brest how?
 
A nice way to let them off the hook and at the same time be forgiving and approving.

You should approve FAR LESS of Lviv - Brest is not the great victimization you seem to assume we all accept it as.
I’ve yet to see any admission that there were any victims of Brest.
Lviv had 4 decades to undo what Brest had 4 centuries to do.
“The sword of Brest”? Please.
Yes, the holy head of St. Athanasius just fell off. Just like those Orthodox heads that Leon complains about to Josephat.
 
I’ve yet to see any admission that there were any victims of Brest.
Lviv had 4 decades to undo what Brest had 4 centuries to do.
Again, the smugness…

Keep it up. I don’t have the time, inclination or frankly the wit to go round for round with you… But just keep it up. I know you will.
Yes, the holy head of St. Athanasius just fell off. Just like those Orthodox heads that Leon complains about to Josephat.
If you say so, Isa, if you say so.
 
Quote:
Th
e fact is your example isn’t analagous - the Pope is calling the faithful back to the flock,
???

Sure they can.

The faithful routinely need to be called to fidelity. Was this the Vatican launchin an attack on the very right of non-Catholic bodies to govern themselves, Isa?

Yes or no?
 
I’m not ashamed of being in communion with Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem etc…

If you are ashamed of whom you are in communion with, to the point of calling the mention “hate,” I can’t help you.
I am in communion with the See of Rome, I have no affiliation with the Vatican City State. I am no fool, your constant referral to my religion as “the vatican” is blatant disrespect, not that expect anything more from you after skimming all of that nonsense you post with sources like wikipedia of all things
Reread any of your 50+ posts, shouldn’t be too hard since time seems to be a bountiful commodity of yours. You slander and viscous lies about St. Josaphat is prime example
the communists paid a lot of lip service to social justice, so maybe we should apply your ad hominem argument to discredit that concept too.
i dont understand your english, it makes no sense
Many of us have agreed to the condemnation of Lvov as an injustice.

I"ve yet to see an admission that Brest was less than the loftiest or morals.
the Union of Brest was one of the Catholicism’s finest hours, the Holy Spirit was clearly with the Metropolitan of Kiev and his bishops 🙂

By the way, your info and sig says your a monophysite, so why do you care about Byzantine Catholics to begin with?
 
the Union of Brest was one of the Catholicism’s finest hours, the Holy Spirit was clearly with the Metropolitan of Kiev and his bishops 🙂
Slava Bohu!

St. Josaphat, holy martyr, pray for us.
 
I hope he dose, this is becoming very entertaining even for non-native speakers - especially considering his only source of information is the ever trustworthy english language internet
And we are writing in what language where?

No, not my only source. I link so anyone and everyone can read and think for themselves.
 
I am in communion with the See of Rome, I have no affiliation with the Vatican City State. I am no fool, your constant referral to my religion as “the vatican” is blatant disrespect,
Funny I’ve been to the Vatican, and no one there thought it a cuss word. Odd things happen I guess on the Internet. In English at least.
not that expect anything more from you after skimming all of that nonsense you post with sources like wikipedia of all things
Like that infallible document, the “Catholic Encyclopedia.”

My comment on wikipedia reveal my thoughts on it, and why I use it.
Reread any of your 50+ posts, shouldn’t be too hard since time seems to be a bountiful commodity of yours. You slander and viscous lies about St. Josaphat is prime example
So bountiful you can’t come up with an example.

Lies about Josaphat? I think I have only reposted the truth (and else) that others have posted.
i dont understand your english, it makes no sense
Ad hominem?
the Union of Brest was one of the Catholicism’s finest hours, the Holy Spirit was clearly with the Metropolitan of Kiev and his bishops 🙂
You mean Saint Petru Movila?
Thank you for being honest with your opinions.
By the way, your info and sig says your a monophysite,
No, it doesn’t.
so why do you care about Byzantine Catholics to begin with?
Why do the Latins?
 
Yes, so you say.
What the heck does that even mean? Really some of your comments are silly but what do you mean “So you say”. I am pretty sure any Byzantine Catholic is really Catholic not just because they “say” so. Thats quite condescending of you.
 
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This thread is closed until it is reviewed for charity and compliance with forum rules tomorrow.
 
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