Guitarist in Drag

[pathia]

But the burden they produce is not the issue. The issue is that these surgeries should not be done.

And you reasoning for this is what? We live in a fallen world, is it so hard to think that the twisted state could not misdirect a soul? The different in conception as a male or female is just one tiny insignificant variable. Not to mention the constantly hidden fact that infants are born every day in between genders and mutilated in the name of God’s word that he ‘male and female he made them’. If God’s word is true, it’s best to use a knife to fix it, by most doctor’s accounts.

Why is it OK to surgically correct an infants gender AGAINST any wishes, as the child cannot have wishes yet, but it is evil to do it later?

Going through with the change, in today’s society, is harder than living in the closet with a gender problem for many. If it’s ‘all in your head’ why would people intentionally choose a harder road?

When I figured out what I was, I was kicked out of the house, kicked out of church, kicked out of school, kicked out of homeless shelters. I lived on the street, destitute for months. After dealing with it and living as my chosen gender, I got off the streets, went to school and managed two degrees, including a graduate degree.

While before, I was living in misery, shame and a complete waste of a human being. I was failing out of highschool and a drug abuser. After I dealt with my cross, by embracing it and doing what I felt best for my continued living, everything changed. It’s like a black and white switchover. Asking me to undo that would erase everything I’ve done for myself and drive me back into the gutter with a gun to my head like I was in the past.

People treat me like living garbage now, I have to fight for every inch of my life, I couldn’t do it if I wasn’t happy with myself. I’ve been assaulted, repeatedly, by ‘good minded’ christians, who believe a good beat down will cure me, one even decided to try to rape me straight. All claimed to be doing ‘God’s work’

 

[Marquette]

I’m not sure of where the verse is, somewhere in the O.T. books of the law, but God said it was an abomination for a man to dress like a woman.

 

[Dirk_Skene]

I’m not sure of where the verse is, somewhere in the O.T. books of the law, but God said it was an abomination for a man to dress like a woman.

But he, she, it … who or whatever, is no in the process of a metamprphisis (wow this guy can’t spell ) and is no longer strictly a man.

Dang Marquette, This is so wrong I wonder if the pastor will finally do something or let it continue. I, like you find this bizzare.

And I thought it could not get worse that liturgical dancing.

 

[RyanML]

I’m not sure of where the verse is, somewhere in the O.T. books of the law, but God said it was an abomination for a man to dress like a woman.

Deuteronomy 22:5, but what’s your point? The O.T. also says that eating shrimp and wearing polyester are abominations

 

[aspawloski4th]

I’m not sure of where the verse is, somewhere in the O.T. books of the law, but God said it was an abomination for a man to dress like a woman.

Yes, but before that is said God says its an abomination for a woman to dress like a man, lest you forget. Then it goes on about not planting 2 seeds of different types in the same field and putting a fence on the edge of your roof.

 

[Marquette]

Deuteronomy 22:5, but what’s your point? The O.T. also says that eating shrimp and wearing polyester are abominations

God made the dietary laws to set his people apart and also for their protection. People became unclean for breaking them.

An abomination is something that was disgusting and offended God. This included other things like having intercourse with animals, offering your children in the fire to Molech, having sex with your mother, etc. These were things that the pagans did and God wanted His people to have no part in anything pagan. The punishment for doing these things was death.

Are you saying then that God no longer finds it offensive if I have sex with my dog?

 

[thistle]

But he, she, it … who or whatever, is no in the process of a metamprphisis (wow this guy can’t spell ) and is no longer strictly a man.

Dang Marquette, This is so wrong I wonder if the pastor will finally do something or let it continue. I, like you find this bizzare.

And I thought it could not get worse that liturgical dancing.

A person who is born a male is always a male. No operations and dressing up changes that.

 

[aspawloski4th]

A person who is born a male is always a male. No operations and dressing up changes that.

Are you saying physically or mentally? What scientific proof do you have of that? What about those physically male but xx chromesomes? This is 2008, don’t use knowledge from 1948.

 

[T700]

People treat me like living garbage now, I have to fight for every inch of my life, I couldn’t do it if I wasn’t happy with myself. I’ve been assaulted, repeatedly, by ‘good minded’ christians, who believe a good beat down will cure me, one even decided to try to rape me straight. All claimed to be doing ‘God’s work’

I’m sorry. I’m not bright enough to know all the answers to this issue, but I know what you have endured is wrong and I’m very sorry. I will remember you in prayer tonight.

Paul

 

[marci]

I was watching something on EWTN last night and there was a young man giving a lecture on “Theology of the Body”. He was explaining the connection between the body and the soul. And therefore the reason why our bodies are sacred. To me, a sex change would be considered mutilation. To use our bodies in a way that is not part of God’s design, similarly to artificial birth control, masturbation or fornication. We cannot separate the nature of our bodies (meaning created in God’s likeness) from our souls. I wish I could remember all of it, but it remided me that I need to do a more indepth reading of the “Theology of the Body”.

We should always remember the suffering that those struggling with this issue go through, we should show charity toward them, but always treat them with dignity by giving them the truth about God’s plan for their bodies and their souls.

 

[Blade_and_Blood]

I’ll admit, that’s a little disturbing, but I’d definitely just turn the other cheek. There he or she is minding his or her own business playing music for the audience. It’s only fair.

Ironically Yours, Blade and Blood

 

[Mirdath]

I was watching something on EWTN last night and there was a young man giving a lecture on “Theology of the Body”. He was explaining the connection between the body and the soul. And therefore the reason why our bodies are sacred. To me, a sex change would be considered mutilation. To use our bodies in a way that is not part of God’s design, similarly to artificial birth control, masturbation or fornication. We cannot separate the nature of our bodies (meaning created in God’s likeness) from our souls. I wish I could remember all of it, but it remided me that I need to do a more indepth reading of the “Theology of the Body”.

We should always remember the suffering that those struggling with this issue go through, we should show charity toward them, but always treat them with dignity by giving them the truth about God’s plan for their bodies and their souls.

Think of it more along the lines of fixing a cleft palate or other physical defect. The body may be sacred, but that doesn’t mean it’s perfectly formed. Reassignment surgery fixes the body (as best possible) to conform with the design, mind, spirit, or what have you – it does not mutilate or misuse it, but makes it more whole.

To any Catholic who thinks the theology of the body makes sex reassignment ‘mutilation’, I would recommend reading Peter Kreeft’s article ‘Is There Sex in Heaven?’.

 

[aspawloski4th]

Think of it more along the lines of fixing a cleft palate or other physical defect. The body may be sacred, but that doesn’t mean it’s perfectly formed. Reassignment surgery fixes the body (as best possible) to conform with the design, mind, spirit, or what have you – it does not mutilate or misuse it, but makes it more whole.

To any Catholic who thinks the theology of the body makes sex reassignment ‘mutilation’, I would recommend reading Peter Kreeft’s article ‘Is There Sex in Heaven?’.

Thankyou. I could not of put it better myself.

 

[thistle]

Are you saying physically or mentally? What scientific proof do you have of that? What about those physically male but xx chromesomes? This is 2008, don’t use knowledge from 1948.

If a person is born biologically a male they are always a male. Nothing changes that. The fact that a male mentally thinks he is a female is irrelevant. It only means they need professional psychiatric help.

 

[aspawloski4th]

If a person is born biologically a male they are always a male. Nothing changes that. The fact that a male mentally thinks he is a female is irrelevant. It only means they need professional psychiatric help.

And the psychiatric help would help adjust to being female in many cases. Good thing people like you don’t run the medical and psychological fields.

 

[pathia]

And the psychiatric help would help adjust to being female in many cases. Good thing people like you don’t run the medical and psychological fields.

Meanwhile, every ‘therapist’ that I saw for trying to cure my own problems never had an official degree. They all had divinity degrees or ‘life coach training’. None had actually become actual psychologists or psychiatrists. This wasn’t for a lack of trying either, I think I saw over ten of them during my years of trying to cure myself, none of them, absolutely none, were actual licensed therapists.

 

[Scottgun]

I forgot about this thread. I noticed some of our defenders of the indefensible declared my post “surface thinking” and skipped happily on without interacting with any of the points. That someone requesting a sex-change operation receives lots of pre-counseling doesn’t overthrow my point at all. A male being mentally convinced they are really female no more makes it so than me declaring I am Napoleon makes it so. As far as having a sex-change operation and still being a productive member of society…no dice. People who have abortions can still be productive members of society. And guess what? That is objectively wrong as well.

And yes, while homosexuality and transexuality are two different things, their defense springs for the same grave error: that there are no such things as objective truth and any restraints on pelvic issues are mere arbitrary societal artifacts that can be ignored or changed with wishful thinking and legistative fiat. T’ain’t so.

 

[pathia]

I
And yes, while homosexuality and transexuality are two different things, their defense springs for the same grave error: that there are no such things as objective truth and any restraints on pelvic issues are mere arbitrary societal artifacts that can be ignored or chan ged with wishful thinking and legistative fiat. T’ain’t so.

Not so in my experience in graduate school that on a hunch due my my own experience, I told the others in my gender identity disorder group to go get a few simple chromosome and hormone tests. Turns out that roughly half of them had identifiable medically acknowledged intersex conditions.

 

[aspawloski4th]

I forgot about this thread. I noticed some of our defenders of the indefensible declared my post “surface thinking” and skipped happily on without interacting with any of the points. That someone requesting a sex-change operation receives lots of pre-counseling doesn’t overthrow my point at all. A male being mentally convinced they are really female no more makes it so than me declaring I am Napoleon makes it so. As far as having a sex-change operation and still being a productive member of society…no dice. People who have abortions can still be productive members of society. And guess what? That is objectively wrong as well.

And yes, while homosexuality and transexuality are two different things, their defense springs for the same grave error: that there are no such things as objective truth and any restraints on pelvic issues are mere arbitrary societal artifacts that can be ignored or changed with wishful thinking and legistative fiat. T’ain’t so.

The indefesible? Take a look at Pathia’s post about the couselors trying to make her adjust to being male, thats indefensible. In your litney of so called logic I see not one shred of science, or compassion for that matter. Please don’t drag abortion into the arguement. In the future on other issues please don’t say it’s what on the inside that counts. Because you obviously don’t believe that.

 

[Scottgun]

I have heard of cases where someone has both fully functioning sex organs. In those cases, I’ll grant that may allow for possibilities, but obviously the exception. But bottom line is that if you have one set of healthy and functioning sex organs, no funny business.