Gun control: Church firmly, quietly opposes firearms for civilians

[Brendan]

There are specific restrictions on those weapons in Switzerland. They are absolutely not for home protection, but are to be maintained by those who have had military training in the event of mobilization. The weapons are to be under lock and key except for when the citizen is required to qualify in the weapon’s use, and may be transported to the firing range only then. I don’t know why Americans seem to think that the Swiss have it so much better than we with regards to weapon possession.

Yes, they are to be locked when at home, but the owner may transport them to a range at any time. The government issued ammo cannot be used then, but ammuntion is easily purchased at the range.

And there are no restrictions on using the weapon for home defense.

Also, unneeded or returned weapons are commonly sold to the public, and those have no restrictions on storage or use.

Note here that the most common rifle on the public ranges was the Stg 90, the former issue assault rifle.
swissrifles.com/shooting/

Go and read the BBC article I offered in post #60

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

And there are no restrictions on using the weapon for home defense.

Correct. My statement was that they were not FOR home protection. They were for militia purposes. That one might use it to defend one’s home - extremely unlikely given the nature of the Swiss people and their respect for the law, and who don’t have the paranoia so often found among American gun owners about unspecified home invaders “coming to rape one’s wife and children” - is a very minor consideration among the Swiss.

 

[Brendan]

Correct. My statement was that they were not FOR home protection. They were for militia purposes. That one might use it to defend one’s home - extremely unlikely given the nature of the Swiss people and their respect for the law, and who don’t have the paranoia so often found among American gun owners about unspecified home invaders “coming to rape one’s wife and children” - is a very minor consideration among the Swiss.

And don’t forget the sporting shoots. Proof solid that fully automatic assault rifles have a sporting use. The Swiss have proved that.

 

[Ender]

That one might use it to defend one’s home - extremely unlikely given the nature of the Swiss people and their respect for the law, and who don’t have the paranoia so often found among American gun owners about unspecified home invaders “coming to rape one’s wife and children” - is a very minor consideration among the Swiss.

However unlikely it may be for a Swiss to use a gun to defend himself, it appears that it is not such an uncommon an act for an American in that it happens here above 2 million times a year.

Ender

 

[mlund]

Of course the Church looks forward to a day where handguns are eliminated from society. Does that mean that the Church looks forward to a day where the State eliminated private ownership of handguns by Force? I think not. We look forward to the Kingdom Come, where people will no longer need to defend themselves from unjust aggressors. We hope for a day when we live the Gospel so truly on Earth that hospitals won’t need to treat gunshot wounds or stabbing victims or people beaten in the head with bricks. On that day when people no longer have to fear the violence of an unjust aggressor people will discard their arms by choice.

Is that day going to be tomorrow? Almost certainly not. Is that day going to come by the State disarming law-abiding citizens? Again, almost certainly not.

• Marty Lund

 

[gene546]

Not surprising at all that the U.S. bishop’s conference would oppose our 2nd amendment rights as they are most generally in political lock-step with the current administration. BTW, this would come under the heading of prudential judgment on the part of this episcopal conference.

 

[Brendan]

However unlikely it may be for a Swiss to use a gun to defend himself, it appears that it is not such an uncommon an act for an American in that it happens here above 2 million times a year.

Ender

No kidding. After all, if you ask a rapist how likely they would be to invade a home when they know that the occupant has an assault rifle and the training to use it effectively.

An armed society is a polite society, just ask the Swiss

 

[CMatt25]

The US still has parts that are too rural. Would you deny an isolated rancher in an area with large carnivores (wolves/coyotes/etc) a gun? At the same time does someone in a city really need a fully automatic weapon with a 33 round magazine?

Not unless they are that poor of a shot. And if they’re that poor of an aim, probably best they not have a gun in their hands to begin with.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

An armed society is a polite society, just ask the Swiss

The Swiss would be a polite society even if there were no guns there but in the hands of the police. It has to do with their ethnicity, their history, and their relationship with each other, in a country with four languages.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

No kidding. After all, if you ask a rapist how likely they would be to invade a home when they know that the occupant has an assault rifle and the training to use it effectively.

That isn’t a consideration for a man intent on rape. Such a fellow doesn’t speculate about how armed a woman whom they see on a lonely street might be. He would be driven by lust that doesn’t generally accomodate rational thought about the consequences.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Proof solid that fully automatic assault rifles have a sporting use.

The only people I’ve ever heard of who use fully automatic weapons to hunt with are Saudi sheiks, and that is nothing to be proud of, and no complement to the hunt. I understand they ride about in Cadillac convertibles chasing game.

 

[Brendan]

The only people I’ve ever heard of who use fully automatic weapons to hunt with are Saudi sheiks, and that is nothing to be proud of, and no complement to the hunt. I understand they ride about in Cadillac convertibles chasing game.

Hunting is not the only sporting use of firearms. As the article noted, the Swiss use military surplus assault rifles in marksmanship competition.

 

[Hastrman]

That isn’t a consideration for a man intent on rape. Such a fellow doesn’t speculate about how armed a woman whom they see on a lonely street might be. He would be driven by lust that doesn’t generally accomodate rational thought about the consequences.

The crime statistics do not bear you out—and that is an end to that. Not only is rape not about lust (statistically), but the widespread possibility of the presence of a gun is correlated with a diminished likelihood of attacks (statistically).

Rape is about a power trip. Nothing ruins a power trip like a JHP bullet in .45 ACP right between the eyes (after, it is to be hoped, two in center-mass; learn your Mozambique Drill, ladies).

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Rape is about a power trip. Nothing ruins a power trip like a JHP bullet in .45 ACP right between the eyes (after, it is to be hoped, two in center-mass; learn your Mozambique Drill, ladies).

Meh, I’d rather she follow it up with something martial like a roundhouse kick instead but I’m probably dreaming now.

 

[Brendan]

The crime statistics do not bear you out—and that is an end to that. Not only is rape not about lust (statistically), but the widespread possibility of the presence of a gun is correlated with a diminished likelihood of attacks (statistically).

Correct. That would be the Wright\Rossi study done by the Justice Dept in 1982.

They interviewed 1800+ convicted felons about what did, and did not, deter them.

57% of the felons said that they feared an armed victim more than they did the police.

And 74% listed fear of being shot as a reason for not invading an occupied home.

Interestingly enough, 88% also said that they could obtain a gun if they so desired, And the felons from jurisdictions that had strong gun laws were actually MORE likely to be armed than those in jurisdictions.

In states with widespread gun ownership and tough punishment for gun misuse, criminals surveyed were often unarmed: 54% in Oklahoma, 62% in Georgia, 40% in Maryland, 43% in Missouri, and 35% in Florida. In Massachusetts, however, only 29% of the felon-respondents were unarmed.

Rape is about a power trip. Nothing ruins a power trip like a JHP bullet in .45 ACP right between the eyes (after, it is to be hoped, two in center-mass; learn your Mozambique Drill, ladies).

I’d start with center mass first, actually.

 

[Hastrman]

I’d start with center mass first, actually.

Yeah, that’s what I said, I think my weird wording made it unclear: “after (it is to be hoped) two in center-mass”.

2 in center-mass followed by 1 in head is the Mozambique Drill.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Nothing ruins a power trip like a JHP bullet in .45 ACP right between the eyes (after, it is to be hoped, two in center-mass; learn your Mozambique Drill, ladies).

I’d prefer the ladies to use a .50 Desert Eagle, with two or three rounds between the eyes, then two in the chest, then two more when the fellow falls down. A quick reload then empty the pistol into the man’s head. That ought to stop him.

That’s in the U.S. They can follow the other drill when they’re in Mozambique.

 

[neophyte]

…I fully support those who fight for our rights to “keep and bear arms”, but we must remember that, with that right comes responsibility to accept being “well regulated”.

Peace
James

We must also remember that “well regulated” means “properly functioning”.

 

[neophyte]

I’d prefer the ladies to use a .50 Desert Eagle, with two or three rounds between the eyes, then two in the chest, then two more when the fellow falls down. A quick reload then empty the pistol into the man’s head. That ought to stop him.

That’s in the U.S. They can follow the other drill when they’re in Mozambique.

The .50’s a bit much for most of the women I know. IMO, most of the time a .38 Spl is quite sufficient.

But I’d be pleased to back her up with the .50. I’m emotionally attached to the .454 Casull, though.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

The .50’s a bit much for most of the women I know. IMO, most of the time a .38 Spl is quite sufficient.

But I’d be pleased to back her up with the .50. I’m emotionally attached to the .454 Casull, though.

An excellent choice, that Casull. And, a good one for the right woman - a strong one!