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mtbender
Guest
From
Evangelium vitae - Pope John Paul II
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Evangelium vitae - Pope John Paul II
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VeilOfVeronica9
Guest
I actually laughed out loud! 
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yosupman
Guest
Guns are important. But even more important is are we letting satan in our homes through sin?
God always teaches us through the physical world about the more important spiritual aspect. Ok, I keep a sawed off shot gun, and a 45 next to my bed.
Spiritually what am i keeping next to my bed. A rosary?
God always teaches us through the physical world about the more important spiritual aspect. Ok, I keep a sawed off shot gun, and a 45 next to my bed.
Spiritually what am i keeping next to my bed. A rosary?
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StarFireKK
Guest
Owning a gun means more than just protecting yourself and your love ones against the random burglar and rapist. It is also about protecting yourself and your fellow citizens against the tyranny of government.
That’s the reason why in the US we have an Amendment in our Constitution that gives us the right to bare arms. The Amendment wasn’t because the founding fathers feared they couldn’t hunt or defend their families from a murderer…it was because the founding fathers knew those who control the guns control the government.
I’m an Irish Catholic. My family has a picture of our ancestors hanging from trees outside their Catholic Church…put there by the British government. So perhaps I have an acute distrust for government officials…but it has happened before and it can happen again.
I don’t agree with gun registration. The first thing the government needs to do before it takes the guns away is know where they are. I’m against paying a state hundreds of dollars to take a class that teaches me nothing about guns or gun safety to then brag I have a conceal and carry permit. I am pretty sure my voter registration card already gives me that right.
I’ve never remotely threaten a person when my firearms. Most people don’t even know I own them. Whenever someone talks about taking away the right to own a firearm the following question runs through my head:
“What are you planning on doing to me that makes you fear the fact that I own a firearm?”
That’s the reason why in the US we have an Amendment in our Constitution that gives us the right to bare arms. The Amendment wasn’t because the founding fathers feared they couldn’t hunt or defend their families from a murderer…it was because the founding fathers knew those who control the guns control the government.
I’m an Irish Catholic. My family has a picture of our ancestors hanging from trees outside their Catholic Church…put there by the British government. So perhaps I have an acute distrust for government officials…but it has happened before and it can happen again.
I don’t agree with gun registration. The first thing the government needs to do before it takes the guns away is know where they are. I’m against paying a state hundreds of dollars to take a class that teaches me nothing about guns or gun safety to then brag I have a conceal and carry permit. I am pretty sure my voter registration card already gives me that right.
I’ve never remotely threaten a person when my firearms. Most people don’t even know I own them. Whenever someone talks about taking away the right to own a firearm the following question runs through my head:
“What are you planning on doing to me that makes you fear the fact that I own a firearm?”
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tommcguire
Guest
From an Asian Story:
To care,
To be fair,
To be humble.
When a man cares he is unafraid,
When he is fair he leaves enough for others,
When he is humble he can grow;
Whereas if, like men of today,
He be bold without caring,
Self-indulgent without sharing,
self-important without shame,
He is dead.
The invincible shield of caring
Is a weapon from the sky against being dead.
To care,
To be fair,
To be humble.
When a man cares he is unafraid,
When he is fair he leaves enough for others,
When he is humble he can grow;
Whereas if, like men of today,
He be bold without caring,
Self-indulgent without sharing,
self-important without shame,
He is dead.
The invincible shield of caring
Is a weapon from the sky against being dead.
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yosupman
Guest
Your philosophy about owning firearms to prevent tyranny worked up until about 100 years ago. Today, firearms definitely discourage against a tyrrany of crime taking over our cities, if everyone would carry. But against the government, small arms can’t do the trick. In our country firearms are not for resisting the government. Its impractical, and not feasible. You can’t defend yourself against a tank with a shot gun.
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StarFireKK
Guest
I never said the government wasn’t better armed. The governments are always better armed and better trained. Almost ever revolution on this planet was impractical and not feasible. Why did we win the US Revolution? Because the French came to our aid!
I might not be able to defend myself against a tank with a shotgun but I and my buddies might be able to procure better guns with our shotguns if we need to defend ourselves against a tank. That would be a lot better than having to storm a prison unarmed to get weapons like the French tried to do.
But hey, if you want to just rely on the governments good nature to not send a tank or a secret police after you- that’s fine with me. Just don’t touch my guns.
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yosupman
Guest
No problem. Won’t touch your guns. In the catechism there is a section on just war or using force. One of the conditions is likelyhood of success. There is no way anyone will be successfull in taking on a modern democratic governnet. Also another principle is that the costs cannot outweigh the victory. There would be a huge bloodbath unimaginable if a militant group tried to start a civil war in a modern democratic government.
I would take JP IIs approach, which by the way worked against the communists in Poland.
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yosupman
Guest
One more thing. The examples you mentioned were all 200+ years ago. Which exactly supports what I said. It worked back then, but is impractical now.
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tommcguire
Guest
All the mighty ones in my midst
the Lord has cast away;
He summoned an army against me
to crush my young men;
The Lord has trodden in the wine press
virgin daughter Judah.
At this I weep,
my eyes run with tears:
Far from me are all who could console me,
any who might revive me;
My sons were reduced to silence
when he enemy prevailed. Lamentations 1: 13-16
The strong can depend on their weapons, but in the end is their hope in what humans create and use for their security? What does this lament say to us today about what is the ultimate human option?
the Lord has cast away;
He summoned an army against me
to crush my young men;
The Lord has trodden in the wine press
virgin daughter Judah.
At this I weep,
my eyes run with tears:
Far from me are all who could console me,
any who might revive me;
My sons were reduced to silence
when he enemy prevailed. Lamentations 1: 13-16
The strong can depend on their weapons, but in the end is their hope in what humans create and use for their security? What does this lament say to us today about what is the ultimate human option?
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yosupman
Guest
Weapons are a tool. Just like a door is a tool. What is the function of a door? A door keeps people out that should not come in. Am I relying on myself and not God if I have a door on my home? Of course not. In fact Vatican II, Gaudium Spes specifically said that as we develop technology, we are in a sense creating with God, being a steward. The fault with man is how we use the technology, the things he gives us. The things such as weapons are neutral. We must use values.
One worships technology not when they use technology, but use technology in an immoral way to “take things into their own hands”.
I own a sawed off shotgun, not to trust in it. But to defend my family.
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tommcguire
Guest
This was the first reading today. It raised some questions for me, and may for you. 1, Ez 18:25-28
25 'Now, you say, “What the Lord does is unjust.” Now listen, House of Israel: is what I do unjust? Is it not what you do that is unjust?
26 When the upright abandons uprightness and does wrong and dies, he dies because of the wrong which he himself has done.
27 Similarly, when the wicked abandons wickedness to become law-abiding and upright, he saves his own life.
28 Having chosen to renounce all his previous crimes, he will most certainly live: he will not die.
What if we really took seriously that Ezekiel is talking to us, not just to the one who wants to kill us?
What if We took seriously that when we renounce all our previous crimes, we will most certainly live, and not die?
What if we considered renouncing our crimes (sins) to be the most important way to defend our life?
Would such renunciation be the best form of gun control?
25 'Now, you say, “What the Lord does is unjust.” Now listen, House of Israel: is what I do unjust? Is it not what you do that is unjust?
26 When the upright abandons uprightness and does wrong and dies, he dies because of the wrong which he himself has done.
27 Similarly, when the wicked abandons wickedness to become law-abiding and upright, he saves his own life.
28 Having chosen to renounce all his previous crimes, he will most certainly live: he will not die.
What if we really took seriously that Ezekiel is talking to us, not just to the one who wants to kill us?
What if We took seriously that when we renounce all our previous crimes, we will most certainly live, and not die?
What if we considered renouncing our crimes (sins) to be the most important way to defend our life?
Would such renunciation be the best form of gun control?
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bigfootbob
Guest
I’m no expert, but it looks like this passage is talking about dealing with a criminal to me.
Maybe I’m not understanding what you mean:
Someone is trying to kill you and you renounce your sins, so they think, “Oh, I better not kill him.” and leave you alone?
The Catholic Church has clearly stated that if you kill someone in self defense, it is NOT a sin.
Do you agree or disagree?
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yosupman
Guest
Tom, If you don’t want to defend yourself, fine. But I have a family and must defend them. In the time of St. Benedict a lot of monks died at the hands of the visigoths. The monks chose not to defend themselves.
Tom, you are mixing apples and oranges. If there is an immediate situation where I have to protect myself and others, then I’ll use the force appropriate for the situation, even if that means completely killing the agressor. If a criminal has been caught, convicted, then yes I am against putting that criminal to death.
Make sense?
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tommcguire
Guest
I live now not I but Christ lives in me, Would it make sense if I said Christ shot and killed the one who intended to murder me?
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bbarrick8383
Guest
Absolutely none, it’s a pointless question…if not extremely odd.
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StarFireKK
Guest
You are reading way more into my post than I intended. I wasn’t talking about a militant group starting a civil war or even necessarily overthrowing a government. I’m talking about not letting soldiers steal your food or harm your family.
I already said that most revolutions succeed because an outside power backs the militant groups.
But if you had a solider trying to take your daughter away to a work camp…you have a much better chance defending her with that shotgun than with a knife.
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Dan_Daly
Guest
Which modern governments are democratic? The United States was founded as a representative republic, and there is a very good argument that it is far less representative now then it was in the past, but at no point as the United States been a democracy.
Even using “democracy” loosely to include republics, as many do, there is no guarantee that a state with that form of government will always have one in the future. In fact, a look through history and around the modern world shows that such states are by far the exception, with despotism being the much more common form of rule.
Pax and God Bless.
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tommcguire
Guest
Jesus was odd. He would not let His disciples use power to defend him in today’s Gospel: Daily Readings for Tuesday September 27, 2011
Reading 1, Zec 8:20-23
20 'Yahweh Sabaoth says this, "In the future, peoples and citizens of many cities will come;
21 and citizens of one city will go to the next and say: We must certainly go to entreat Yahweh’s favour and seek out Yahweh Sabaoth; I am going myself.
22 Yes, many peoples and great nations will seek out Yahweh Sabaoth in Jerusalem and entreat Yahweh’s favour."
23 'Yahweh Sabaoth says this, “In those days, ten men from nations of every language will take a Jew by the sleeve and say: We want to go with you, since we have learnt that God is with you.” ’
Daily Readings
Daily readings of the Mass. 7 days/week. See Sample
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Responsorial Psalm, Psalms 87:1-3, 4-5, 6-7
1 [Of the sons of Korah Psalm Song] With its foundations on the holy mountains,
2 Yahweh loves his city, he prefers the gates of Zion to any dwelling-place in Jacob.
3 He speaks of glory for you, city of God,Pause
4 ‘I number Rahab and Babylon among those that acknowledge me; look at Tyre, Philistia, Ethiopia, so and so was born there.’
5 But of Zion it will be said, ‘Every one was born there,’ her guarantee is the Most High.
6 Yahweh in his register of peoples will note against each, ‘Born there’,Pause
7 princes no less than native-born; all make their home in you.
Gospel, Lk 9:51-56
51 Now it happened that as the time drew near for him to be taken up, he resolutely turned his face towards Jerusalem
52 and sent messengers ahead of him. These set out, and they went into a Samaritan village to make preparations for him,
53 but the people would not receive him because he was making for Jerusalem.
54 Seeing this, the disciples James and John said, ‘Lord, do you want us to call down fire from heaven to burn them up?’
55 But he turned and rebuked them,
56 and they went on to another village.
Jesus never used lethal force. He called followers and instructed them to do the will of His Father. Does the Father’s will call us as followers of Jesus to take the life of another? Why do Christians feel it necessary to use lethal force in the name of Jesus Christ?
Reading 1, Zec 8:20-23
20 'Yahweh Sabaoth says this, "In the future, peoples and citizens of many cities will come;
21 and citizens of one city will go to the next and say: We must certainly go to entreat Yahweh’s favour and seek out Yahweh Sabaoth; I am going myself.
22 Yes, many peoples and great nations will seek out Yahweh Sabaoth in Jerusalem and entreat Yahweh’s favour."
23 'Yahweh Sabaoth says this, “In those days, ten men from nations of every language will take a Jew by the sleeve and say: We want to go with you, since we have learnt that God is with you.” ’
Daily Readings
Daily readings of the Mass. 7 days/week. See Sample
E-mail: Zip Code:
Responsorial Psalm, Psalms 87:1-3, 4-5, 6-7
1 [Of the sons of Korah Psalm Song] With its foundations on the holy mountains,
2 Yahweh loves his city, he prefers the gates of Zion to any dwelling-place in Jacob.
3 He speaks of glory for you, city of God,Pause
4 ‘I number Rahab and Babylon among those that acknowledge me; look at Tyre, Philistia, Ethiopia, so and so was born there.’
5 But of Zion it will be said, ‘Every one was born there,’ her guarantee is the Most High.
6 Yahweh in his register of peoples will note against each, ‘Born there’,Pause
7 princes no less than native-born; all make their home in you.
Gospel, Lk 9:51-56
51 Now it happened that as the time drew near for him to be taken up, he resolutely turned his face towards Jerusalem
52 and sent messengers ahead of him. These set out, and they went into a Samaritan village to make preparations for him,
53 but the people would not receive him because he was making for Jerusalem.
54 Seeing this, the disciples James and John said, ‘Lord, do you want us to call down fire from heaven to burn them up?’
55 But he turned and rebuked them,
56 and they went on to another village.
Jesus never used lethal force. He called followers and instructed them to do the will of His Father. Does the Father’s will call us as followers of Jesus to take the life of another? Why do Christians feel it necessary to use lethal force in the name of Jesus Christ?
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bigfootbob
Guest
Tom,
The Catholic Church has clearly stated that if you kill someone in self defense, it is NOT a sin.
Do you agree or disagree with that?
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