Do you think Jesus is “fine with the Crips taking out the Bloods?”LeafByNiggle:
I think just like everything else that occurs in the world Jesus hopes we will do the right thing but we have free will.
I think your idea of what “that fate” means is different from mine.
I don’t know… I didn’t think it did
Jesus is not fine either any sin, but I originally brought this up as an answer to your comment about the frequent gun use in America. Gang members voluntarily taking eachother out in a turf war is far different than Innocents being killed.
I assume you mean that the Innocents go to heaven, but I’m not sure. Their fate, unless you intervene, is to get shot with high speed projectiles that pierce the skin, and once they enter spin and tumble tearing holes in bone and internal organs. You mean that fate? Please explain.
Why do you reject it? This idea comes from police off icer and trainer Lt. Grossman. There are those who go through life clueless (the sheep) that dont watch their suroundings , go to bad areas etc. They are victims. There are wolves who prey on the clueless victims. They are the rapist, muggers, murders, etc. Then the sheep dogs protect the sheep. They are police, military, and citizens who are armed and trained in tactics and methods. What part of that do you object to? I’ve never had anyone reject this analogy.
First I don’t think being killed by a crackhead who kills you because he doesn’t like the way you looked at him qualifies for martyrdom, but you know more theology than I.
Yeah that is a foolish decision. You don’t need a gun till you do. Then it’s going to be you saying “my kingdom for a Glock.” Sorry you feel this way. If you spent time being educated on how guns work, tactics to use them in various scenerios, and then going to the range (its fun) you would probably change your mind. Good luck I hope you never encounter a situation where a gun is needed. The world has become a dangerious place.
If everyone falls into one of those three categories (sheep, wolves, and dogs), tell me which category these people fall into:LeafByNiggle:
Why do you reject it? This idea comes from police off icer and trainer Lt. Grossman. There are those who go through life clueless (the sheep) that dont watch their suroundings , go to bad areas etc. They are victims. There are wolves who prey on the clueless victims. They are the rapist, muggers, murders, etc. Then the sheep dogs protect the sheep. They are police, military, and citizens who are armed and trained in tactics and methods.
For those of you keeping track of Dracarys’ straw men, here is another one! I never argued that being killed by a crackhead was a path to martyrdom.
I try to ignore irrelevant questions. But my comment on martyrdom was a direct response to your claim that by doing what I said I would be a sheep lead to the slaughter, so it was relevant.
No, you said much more than that. You said it is not only a difference, but the difference is so great that you are fine with “the Crips taking out Bloods or vice versa”. I hope you will take that back.
Do you think those other countries with low murder rates do not have gangs? Do you think gangs are a unique feature of the US? Definitely not. So your “explanation” of why our murder rate is so high does not explain why it is not higher in these other countries that also have gangs.
But this analogy is about crime and danger. It’s only applicable to that area. Your taking this far too literally. You should have a discussion with your young daughter or Grandchildren. I would tell her not to be a sheep. Pay attention and on the offense for herself and her girlfriends. Tell her that sometimes boys are wolves and may try to do things to her that she does not want. Tell her that if they don’t respect “no” and force themselves on her she needs to drive her knee into their groin and her fingers into their eye sockets. Now she is a sheepdog instead of a sheep. Are you following me? This stuff isn’t hard. You have had this discussion with your kids right?
You are the one who brought up marterdom. I never made that association.
This is a thread on Catholics and gun ownership. How is my question not relevant? I’ve had people actually say to me they would rather die than shoot someone in self defense.
Nope, that is my personal opinion and has nothing to do with what I think Jesus feels about them. If they all take each other out there will be less crime on innocent people. If you love them feel free to go hug a gang member. Although expect a knife in your back whilst doing it.
We have a bigger population than those countries so yes we have more incidents. But that is why the weak need the protection of firearms. If you seperate these gang activities from other gun incidents it makes your argument less relevant.
Yes. I think even the MSM noted that the victims in both these shootings were disarmed, according to regs, and unable to defend themselves.
Not only that, there would quickly develop an underground arms manufacturing business, very similar to alcohol production during US Prohibition.
The same could be said of your “what if’s”. The reality however is that most mass shootings were ended by non-armed people or when police forces arrived. Very few involved the “street justice” vigilante who happened to be armed and on site.
Doesn’t make sense what you say, US have the highest amount of guns per capita in the world. There are many law abiding citizens, however that has not helped at all with the mass shootings which are through the roof compared to other developed countries.
Many studies prove the opposite (not to mention plain common sense), however the NRA does not want the public to know it, bad business and makes their credibility plummet.
The reasons of why is that as per the Pentagon:
I guess when arguments no longer work, better to just outright attack the opponent.
That can be attributed to the fact that most mass shootings occur in places where it is prohibited to bring firearms in the first place.
Are you sure you’re not only thinking of PUBLIC mass shootings?John10:
That can be attributed to the fact that most mass shootings occur in places where it is prohibited to bring firearms in the first place.
Even the shooting at Ft Hood happened in a medical processing center, where even the officers were prohibited from having their sidearms. Major Hasan chose to attack there, instead of the MP Post or the rifle range…I wonder why…
I never ceased to be amazed how off kilter the collective moral compass tilts at this site. We sacrifice all topics on the pro-life altar on one thread, then de-value human life on another.
I greatly respect your decision to not keep a gun, as I do the wife in the first post. I also greatly respect responsible gun owners. I would really like to see a respect shown for each others personal decisions.
Are you sure? I don’t think there are enough people carrying weapons, even where it is allowed, to be in the right place at the right time and have the proper training to end such shootings promptly. And if we did somehow achieve that saturation level of armed citizens, we would be seeing many more accidental killings from trigger-happy vigilantes. The fact is, normal armed citizens are not a solution to crime in public areas. Police get special training on how to assess threats and use their weapons in crowds to protect bystanders. There is no way the average gun owner has that kind of training.John10:
That can be attributed to the fact that most mass shootings occur in places where it is prohibited to bring firearms in the first place.
Fine. The analogy only applies to crime and danger from crime. But the gun policy impacts more than just crime, and so those other areas need to be taken into account too - things like suicides and accidents.
OK, then I want to be in the group that relies on official security rather than providing for all of my own defense.
I may have been the one who brought it up, but you did answer me with: “I don’t think being killed by a crackhead who kills you because he doesn’t like the way you looked at him qualifies for martyrdom.”
If I was one of those people then it would have been a relevant question to ask me. Since I wasn’t, it wasn’t.
How is that a Christian attitude? To say that my personal opinions have nothing to do with what Jesus wants?
A Christian believes that all life is precious, even the life of a gang member.
The statistics I posted were for murder rates (murders per 100,000 inhabitants), which already take population into account.
But there is no reason so discount gang activities. Besides, one could argue that gangs are a big factor precisely because guns are so easily available. Regardless, there is no reason to ignore gang murders as “not my problem.”
The legal prohibition of bringing a firearm onto someone elses property without their permission would still apply. So a person with a CPL would not be able to assist.