LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Enough with the chest-pounding, please!
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Dracarys
Guest
Well I am hoping there are people on the fence who read this. If I can get some of them to go to a range to at least rent a gun and try it with the guidance of a good teacher they will loose their fears. I grew up with guns so I never had anything but respect and enjoyment from guns and gun sports. I know I will never reach those entrenched in ignorance, but fears and phobias can be overcome.
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graciew
Guest
I do not mean to be a nuisance, but those are always quite perfect scenarios…and sadly, it is not always like that .
Being unable to protect your family isn t always because you, or anyone wasn t armed or alert…
I say this because we are vulnerable, and things happen and it won t depend on you always…
We cannot play with blame like that really…
And I am being serious, Dracary.
Being unable to protect your family isn t always because you, or anyone wasn t armed or alert…
I say this because we are vulnerable, and things happen and it won t depend on you always…
We cannot play with blame like that really…
And I am being serious, Dracary.
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Dracarys
Guest
It’s not bragging if you can do it. Don’t get me wrong there are others who can shoot rings around me. I know a former Marine sniper who can consistently and quickly hit a target at 100 yards that I can’t even see let alone hit even once.
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pnewton
Guest
Color me impressed. I would consider such a gun useless past 25 yards, at which distance it is dubious, more of a 15- yard gun, which is where most self-defense takes place. I too have stuck with a revolver (SW 686). In fact, i am the last one I know that shoots a revolver, though I still place around the top 25% when average with the auto shooters I shoot with.
And yes, I am no fan of guns (for myself, that is), especially as primary self-defense. I own and keep one because I have to.
And yes, I am no fan of guns (for myself, that is), especially as primary self-defense. I own and keep one because I have to.
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Dracarys
Guest
I am serious too. In battle there are no guarantees. It’s about putting the odds in your favor though. Do you want to deal with an active shooter using the advice of some of the uninformed people on this thread? I’ve heard using unarmed, non lethal , talking, turning the other cheek, etc.while Innocents are being shot every split second. Their the ones who aren’t being serious. I have fun because I think shooting is fun and it saves innocent lives.
If the ignorance on the other side prevails you or I may be in a situation where evil is occurring but we are helpless to deal with it. Oh I too am dead serious.
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pnewton
Guest
Then can they afford guns, ammo and training, you know, offense?
They detect and alert. They alert the police that they need to respond, and the one breaking in that the police have been notified and will be coming. Most criminals commit crime because they are too lazy or high to work. They seek the easy score, not the one that will land them in prison. Home invasions, the most dangerous, but rarest of break ends, may not be as lazy, but they are very careful and would leave to attack another day.
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pnewton
Guest
The difference between a religion and a hobby is that one evangelizes others into a religion. I grew up with cats. I do not care if anyone owns them. It is one thing to fight for one’s right to bear arms, or even own an armory as a hobby, if you meet the criteria. However, I will never understand this push to make one’s own choices in this matter universal. There are other options. My favorite is developing verbal skills and hands on self-defense. I do not expect everyone to “go and do likewise,” though.
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pnewton
Guest
I am going to weigh back in on the sheep, dog, wolf stuff. I think such categories are over-simplifications, as people are all from time to time in all categories. A docile mother becomes vicious protecting a child. Even the most vicious predator can become the prey. But with that caveat, I am a sheep/dog. Like both of my sons, I am inclined to passivity and the protection of others. A poster asked a question above that was not answered (we should never pressure people to answer personal questions) about whether one would kill someone to defend another. Having thought on this a lot, I am fairly confident that I would kill someone to defend his victim, and do so without warning, if I deemed the danger immediate. However, I do not know that I would kill someone to defend myself. I think I might. But in this case, I am relatively confident that I would risk being killed myself, if I could possibly save the life of the other, especially in the case of mental illness. Furthermore, a dog might very well give his life for another. We salute those who do this in uniform. For this reason, I can also say (again with reasonable certainty) that I would rather be the one killed, than to accidentally kill an innocent person over an error in judgment.
Moral law is tricky to apply in advance, but it is helpful to think through these matters to understand our own convictions, and then make choices of self-defense based on those convictions.
Moral law is tricky to apply in advance, but it is helpful to think through these matters to understand our own convictions, and then make choices of self-defense based on those convictions.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
But can you (or more importantly, the average gun owner) reliably determine when to shoot and when to refrain? Or guarantee any particular level of safety training? Official police do get at least a minimum of training. They are not allowed to carry a gun until they do. Why won’t you commit to making it mandatory that gun owners get at least that level of training?LeafByNiggle:
It’s not bragging if you can do it. Don’t get me wrong there are others who can shoot rings around me. I know a former Marine sniper who can consistently and quickly hit a target at 100 yards that I can’t even see let alone hit even once.
I’m not asking for guarantees inside of a battle. I’m asking for a guarantee outside of the battle. I want a guarantee that when there is no battle going on, people carrying guns are not endangering me or my family or anyone else.
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prayerrider
Guest
Being a revolver guy, I usually don’t have to pick up brass very often, either!
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Dracarys
Guest
I got most of my guns from my dad. Alarms and alarm subscriptions aren’t cheap. But sure get it if you can afford it.
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Dracarys
Guest
That’s a personal choice, but I hope you know the church does support the use of self defense to protect yourself. I think it’s imperative you consider those you would leave behind just to save the life of a murderer. Your kids won’t have a father. Your wife has no husband. Etc
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pnewton
Guest
That’s my only point. Not only are these choice personal, based on one’s conscience, they are also situational. Not all face the same dangers. Some may be at greater risk of violent crime, or at greater risk of suicide, or maybe just at greater risk of being stupid and careless. Some may be more experienced in de-escalation, or martial arts. Others may have little to offer in resistance except killing in self-defense.
I have no desire to take guns (of any kind) away, except in limited cases.
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Dracarys
Guest
I think you have some misconceptions and your making it harder than it is. Yes police do receive advanced training I have mentioned and enjoy myself. But I like this stuff. Police clear rooms using techniques like “cutting the pie”. They go around corners using the “pinwheel.” There’s all kinds of cool and awesome stuff.
However if a bad guy kicks down your door at close range it really is as simple as point and shoot. Aim at center mass.
If your in the mall and Innocents are getting hurt then don’t take a shot if Innocents are in front of you. Even the best shots won’t do that. A lot of this is common sense. If you don’t have elaborate skills but you are close to the bad guy and don’t have Innocents in the way take the shot. Lives are at stake.
Training is good, but I don’t trust government agencies to get it right. Politics always gets involved.
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Dracarys
Guest
All I can tell you is your better off arming yourself to increase your odds of survival. I can’t guarantee that you or I won’t be killed by a drunk driver tonight. You can take measures to not drive on St. Pat’s night when all the drunks are out, but there are no guarantees and no law will ever give you a guarantee against death by gun or car
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prayerrider
Guest
In a “situation,” I’d want to be within 10 yards, preferably closer. Part of being a responsible concealed carrier is knowing my limitations. Those movie scenes where bad guy gets shot even with a human shield? No.
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prayerrider
Guest
Exactly! My first reaction will be to take cover. Then pull. Then take the shot only if within distance and with a clear field.
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prayerrider
Guest
Very little can go wrong in a situation with a revolver, eh? No forgetting to take safety off or rack, no misfeeds, etc.
I’m simply more accurate with revolvers, too. I’ve heard most people are, with practice. I qualified my Colt clone first try–iron sights and all.
“Spray and pray” is movie nonsense. Accurate placement is key.
I’m simply more accurate with revolvers, too. I’ve heard most people are, with practice. I qualified my Colt clone first try–iron sights and all.
“Spray and pray” is movie nonsense. Accurate placement is key.
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maryjk
Guest
How to best hit a target? Yes. How to navigate a room to search for a shooter? Not so much.
Sorry, I have other options. I don’t carry so that the general public is safe. Or so I can protect everyone and their brother.
I carry so I have options. I’m not looking to put myself into a position where I am in a shoot out with anyone.
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