Gun ownership up, crime down

[lerapt78]

Does anyone know of any studies that directly link gun ownership to crime rate? I’m not even sure how’d they’d go about doing that…the link between gun sales and crime can’t really be directly inferred when there are so many variables that go into crime trends.

I’m not sure it it’s possible to make that study, being as many homicides are committed with illegal posession of firearms. In order to make a correlation, wouldn’t you have to search government records of gun permits and apply them to the people arrested for the homocides?

For example, let’s say that we have records that show 100 people legally own guns (they wernt through the proper channels and got permits). Now, if 100 people happen to be killed that year by guns, and those legal owners were *not *the guilty parties (and had posession of their guns at the time), then it can be assumed that the killers owned guns illegally, and therefore gun laws would not be a factor in the relationship. The distinction has to be made between legal and illegal ownership. But how does one calculate illegal ownership?

 

[ProVobis]

So why is the crime rate falling in the US?

Maybe it’s not reported, I don’t know. Do you really trust govt statistics?

A son of a co-worker of mine caught shot twice in a crossfire last year and the whole thing was kept hush-hush. I guess they don’t want to irritate the gangs which were involved?

 

[lerapt78]

So why is the crime rate falling in the US?

Could it be said that criminals would be less likely to attack someone if they knew that person was carrying?, ie, if more law-abiding citizens are buying guns to protect themselves, they are less likely to be the victims of a crime?

 

[SamH]

Maybe it’s not reported, I don’t know. Do you really trust govt statistics?

I seriously doubt if Eric Holder were allowed to influence the FBI’s report that he would allow the correlation of more guns and less crime be made.

Because of that I trust this report.

I just feel sorry for the those poor people Mexico that were killed with guns he sold to known criminals.

 

[ProVobis]

So why is the crime rate falling in the US?

Maybe it’s not reported, I don’t know. Do you really trust govt statistics?

A son of a co-worker of mine caught shot twice in a crossfire last year and the whole thing was kept hush-hush. I guess maybe they don’t want to irritate the gangs which were involved?

Things would be fair if everyone were one-on-one but how is one going to defend himself against gangs, guns or no guns?

 

[cjmclark]

I’m not sure it it’s possible to make that study, being as many homicides are committed with illegal posession of firearms. In order to make a correlation, wouldn’t you have to search government records of gun permits and apply them to the people arrested for the homocides?

For example, let’s say that we have records that show 100 people legally own guns (they wernt through the proper channels and got permits). Now, if 100 people happen to be killed that year by guns, and those legal owners were *not *the guilty parties (and had posession of their guns at the time), then it can be assumed that the killers owned guns illegally, and therefore gun laws would not be a factor in the relationship. The distinction has to be made between legal and illegal ownership. But how does one calculate illegal ownership?

I think the correlation being made here is one of greater gun ownership by private citizens occurring simultaneously with lowering crime rates. In other words, it appears that crime is less likely to occur in a population where there is a higher probability of an individual (read: potential victim) owning a firearm, as opposed to greater gun ownership spurring more crime (read: more criminals with guns).

I’m not saying that a causal link between gun ownership and crime rate doesn’t exist; however, it is nearly impossible to prove with anything other than circumstantial evidence because of all the variables that go into why crimes are committed. It would be nice if we could definitively point to a single, cure-all reason why crime trends go down, but unfortunately we can’t.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I suspect it is wrong.

That’s your opinion.

Jim

 

[Elizabeth502]

What exactly are you trying to claim? As criminals get older they quit using firearms? Given their line of work and the physical demands one would think it would be the opposite.

It’s not "I’ who’s “claiming” anything. It’s the criminologists who do study and have studied this and compiled the statistics, who observe and report their findings. Not a lot of older men have the energy and agility to maintain a life of crime on a regular basis. At some point, diminishing returns set in. As people slow down they are less interested in fighting against nature to maintain that lifestyle.

In fact, in this country there has been developing a growing need for gerontologists due to the aging of the population. (Baby Boomers – a very large segment of the population --reaching Senior years.)

As people age, they aren’t “less interested in using firearms.” They are less interested in pursuing a life of crime. The statistics bear it out.

 

[JonNC]

Actually they point out how 41 states have “given” people the right to protect themselves in public - most in the last 25 years. I know my state was one of them.

It is amazing, the arrogance. They have “given” us something we have by right, antecedent to government. It wasn’t theirs to give us. It was ours that was taken away.

Jon

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Unarmed people are slaves, or are soon to be.

“And they are ignorant that the purpose of the sword is to save every man from slavery.”
Marcus Annaeus Lucanus Roman poet (A.D. 39-65)

“The right of self-defense never ceases. It is among the most sacred, and alike necessary to nations and to individuals.”
President James Monroe (November 16, 1818)

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
Thomas Jefferson

“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks.”
Thomas Jefferson’s advice to his 15 year-old nephew Peter Carr 1785

“Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would. Nor is there anything in the common law of England … inconsistent with that right.”
John Adams(1735-1826) Founding Father, 2nd US President
Source: BOSTON GAZETTE, September 5, 1763, The Works of John Adams, p.438 (Charles F. Adams ed., 1851).

“The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.”
Patrick Henry

Armed citizenry is the heritage of this nation. If the rest of the “civilized” world considers us a bunch of buckaroos, so be it.

 

[lerapt78]

I think the correlation being made here is one of greater gun ownership by private citizens occurring simultaneously with lowering crime rates. In other words, it appears that crime is less likely to occur in a population where there is a higher probability of an individual (read: potential victim) owning a firearm, as opposed to greater gun ownership spurring more crime (read: more criminals with guns).

I’m not saying that a causal link between gun ownership and crime rate doesn’t exist; however, it is nearly impossible to prove with anything other than circumstantial evidence because of all the variables that go into why crimes are committed. It would be nice if we could definitively point to a single, cure-all reason why crime trends go down, but unfortunately we can’t.

Yes, I suggested that may be a reason in my quote below. I also tend to think that a reason crime has gone down is because the incarceration rate has gone up. It makes sense - if people are locked up, they can’t commit crimes. And you are correct - there are many variables.

Could it be said that criminals would be less likely to attack someone if they knew that person was carrying?, ie, if more law-abiding citizens are buying guns to protect themselves, they are less likely to be the victims of a crime?

It is amazing, the arrogance. They have “given” us something we have by right, antecedent to government. It wasn’t theirs to give us. It was ours that was taken away.

Jon

Well said.

 

[lerapt78]

“Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
Thomas Jefferson

So simple and so obvious, at least to me. Gotta love those forefathers.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

So simple and so obvious, at least to me. Gotta love those forefathers.

You know, its amazing when you study just how educated and worldly our founding fathers were. Compared to the mental midgets of today, like Maxine Waters and Charles Schumer, its easy to understand why our nation is plunging off a precipice.

 

[archangel04]

I suspect that the rise in gun ownership and drop in crime have nothing to do with each other.

Might be, drugs are easier to get these days and gangs have settled territoriality disputes.

Jim

Your kidding right? That is not what I’ve seen around here. Drugs may be easier to get, but that doesn’t mean the violence due to them have stopped, if anything they’ve gotten worst! Gangs out here are constantly fighting each other.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Your kidding right? That is not what I’ve seen around here. Drugs may be easier to get, but that doesn’t mean the violence due to them have stopped, if anything they’ve gotten worst! Gangs out here are constantly fighting each other.

That is just an unintended benefit of the war on drugs.

 

[andremiguel]

On the bolded, where did the article say “buying guns **to kill people **is a good business and creates jobs”? Most people buy guns for hunting and self-defense (protecting themselves from those who do kill people). It is a relative rarity when someone who legally buys and owns firearms murders people. The killers most often get their guns illegally, which of course means, gun laws don’t deter them.

Jon

Sorry, I do not believe that.
Now, you have a fight at home: there are no guns. The outcome will be some bruises or some cuts.
The same with guns: someone may get killed.

Knowing human nature as I know and simply perusing newspapers, you see that domestic fights ending in murder with guns are more than many. You seldom see a domestic fights end in death without guns.

I mean, let’s face it: defense or attack, guns are not intended to picnic. They are intended to kill. Guns are not the same thing as sticks, mustard powder, stunning guns, Judo and other defense systems that I do not bother to quote. Guns are intended to go to the throat, to kill.

Obviously, with easy to access guns, criminals do not bother to go through difficult ways to buy a gun. They have an easy way.

Besides, normal citizens are armed with guns which do not defend from the heavy weaponry that criminals have.

And let’s forget hunting, that was not what we were talking about.

 

[andremiguel]

25 straight years of coincidences? Can you take those odds to Vegas?

Yes, there may be 25 straight years of coincidences, if you compare things without causality. Now, listen if you compare the lowering of criminality with the cultivation of potatoes in Cambodia maybe you will get 25 straight years of coincidences. Do they mean a thing ? No.

To say that buying an object intended to kill lowers murders is something out of total logic.

And finally, there was no answer how the States are in 4th placer of murders by guns…

 

[andremiguel]

I suspect that the rise in gun ownership and drop in crime have nothing to do with each other.

Might be, drugs are easier to get these days and gangs have settled territoriality disputes.

Jim

Gangs are the police in the territories.
Like Mafia in Sicily.

 

[andremiguel]

The US is a North American country - not a European country. By that standard a more accurate comparison would be to Mexico and Canada. Compared to Mexico where they have some of the strictest gun laws in the world I’ll take the US crime rate any day.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Mexico

Sorry, the Mexican wars have to do with the export of drugs to the USA and the guns come from the USA. On discussing Mexico, this subject has to be taken in consideration.

The USA is the biggest market for drugs in the whole words, even for painkillers.

Here I take a stand: society has turned their backs to Christ and turned to wrong ways.

 

[andremiguel]

Source?

National Geography has got plenty of documentaries about that.
The other day I saw one about the Italian and Russian Mafia in Chicago.