Hail, Holy Queen Prayer - difficulty as new Catholic

[schaeffer]

To tell you the truth, I’m as confused by that whole scenario as you are! While I have no real problem with the prayer, or with the practice of devoting oneself to Mary, but, I do have a bit of a problem with the actions of the Priests. They do seem to be more than a little bizarre to me. I suppose I have to ask, what time period are we talking about, here? I know that during the 70s and 80s there was a wide variety of ‘free spirit’ interpretations of what was considered to be appropriate practices in the Church, in the aftermath of the Vat II changes (mostly due to gross misinterpretations of what some of those changes really meant). But, I have never heard of that particular ceremony, before.

Typically, during the month of May, there are many special ceremonies connected with Mary, because the whole month is dedicated to her. I know there are some that include her crowning as Queen of Heaven, but I don’t recall any being quite as extreme as that one. But, your description of it even made me uncomfortable. Some cultures often have different traditions and ways of expressing their Catholic Faith, so it’s possible this might have been a normal one for that particular church, but it sure sounds a bit over the top to me. So, I don’t really know how to respond to that one.

This was during the 70’s, basically that entire decade when I was attending school/Mass in that parish. It was done every year, and I was extremely troubled and confused by this part of the ceremony.

My mother has always had a statue of the Virgin, and we picked and brought flowers from the field or garden for her. She held a spot in the kitchen where we all passed her many times a day, a true member of the family.

I never even considered there could be anything questionable about devotion to the Blessed Virgin until I began to attend those May Crownings.

 

[adf417]

Again, I have no issue thanking Mary for what she’s done. Or saying I love her, or admitting she’s done great things; but I think the next poster gave a great example… I couldn’t say all that to anyone. Could you?

As for prostration, that’s where one draws the line? Okay. So you can say whatever praise and prayer but as long as you don’t prostrate it’s not worship?

No. Catholics will draw the line at eating his body and drinking his blood. Even Satanist understand the importance of this ritual, to a perversion.

dronald you have me curious now. I assume you believe there is a progression of reverence from bowing to kneeling, to prostrating with prostrating being the ultimate “form” of worship in these three examples. Do you and/or members of your church regularly prostrate yourselves to God? Do any protestants out there regularly do this, sense it is considered a higher form of worship?

Peace!!!

 

[Miriam1947]

---

I love and respect Mary, Peter, Paul, Ignatius, my mother, etc as well. I just can’t wrap my head around saying the words said that have been quoted by the OP.** I simply cannot do it.**.

Then don’t.

It’s been said several times here that you DO NOT** have to follow Marian devotions.** Did you miss those posts?

 

[friardchips]

Indeed, and so does this prayer. I did an analysis of Scripture a while back, and came up with the Biblical basis, line by line, for this prayer:

Hail Holy Queen
Hail! Holy Queen (Luke 1:28,42, Revelation 12),
Mother of Mercy (Psalm 103:8, Luke 1:43, John 10:30, James 3:17),
our life, our sweetness, and our hope (Romans 12:5, John 14:6, 1 Timothy 1:1).
To you do we cry, poor banished children of Eve (Genesis 3:20-24) .
To you do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears (Psalm 84:6) .
Turn then, O most gracious advocate, your eyes of mercy toward us (John 2:1-11, 2 Timothy 1:2-3);
and after this our exile (Hebrews 11:13),
show unto us the blessed fruit of your womb, Jesus (Luke 1:42).
O clement! O loving! O sweet Virgin Mary (Luke 1:48, Matthew 1:24-25)!
Pray for us (1 Timothy 2:1, Revelation 5:8 & 8:3-4) ,
O Holy Mother of God (Song of Solomon 6:9-10, Luke 1:43, Revelation 12),
That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ (2 Thessalonians 1:5).

** Additional related verses: Matthew 8:13, 15:28, 17:3, & 17:15–18, Mark 9:17–29, Luke 8:49–55, John 19:26-27, Romans 15:30–32, Ephesians 6:18–20, Colossians 4:3, 1 Thessalonians 5:25, 2 Thessalonians 3:1, James 5:16–18, Hebrews 12:22-23. **

Not that, as noted, some of these verses need to be pieced together, or taken in conjunction with others. So looking at the “Mother of Mercy” line, we see Mary as the mother of Christ, the Trinity as one from John 10:30, and mercy as a characteristic of Wisdom - the Holy Spirit.

Hope this helps.

If everyone was as dedicated and went to as much trouble to further their understanding as bubba1358 then there would be no problems in the first place!

Thank you for sharing this site!

mlz

You’re welcome, mlz And thank you for the names of authors!

 

[WilT]

I can understand but do not share your concerns about Mary. This beautiful prayer does nothing to take away the salvation promised to us through Christ alone. Mary is His mother and justly deserves our praise and thanks for her fiat and for her continuing intercession found in its bilical roots at the marriage feast at Cana.
She is a great advocate but cannot, being human, be compared to God or in any sense to Jesus our redeemer.
But do not fear the great Catholic devotion to Mary. She is not some goddess to us as you know. Rid yourself of your protestant fear and pray as you feel comfortable; to Christ only if you prefer. They all get to Him as the salvation of the world.

 

[Rosarium]

English:
Hail holy Queen, mother of mercy!
Hail our life our sweetness and our hope.
to you do we cry, poor banished children of Eve.
To you do we sigh mourning and weeping in this valley of tears
Turn then, most gracious advocate your eyes of mercy towards us
And after this exile show unto us the blessed fruit of your womb, Jesus.
O clement, O loving, O sweet virgin Mary.

Latin
Salve regina, mater misericordiæ.
Vita, dulcedo et spes nostra, salve!
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Hevæ
Ad te suspiramus gementes et flentes in hac lacrimarum valle.
Eia ergo advocata nostra illos tuos misericordes oculos ad nos converte
Et Iesum benedictum fructum ventris tui post hoc exsilium ostende.
O clemens, O pia, O dulcis Virgo Maria.

Litteral English version:
Hail, Queen, Mother of Mercy.
Our life, sweetness and hope, hail!
To thee we cry, banished sons of Eve.
To thee we sigh, wailing and weeping in this valley of tears.
Oh, therefore, our advocate, turnest thou thy merciful eyes towards Thou
And showest thou unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
O clement, O pious, O sweet virgin Mary.

As you see the “most gracious” is an English addition to the original Latin text. But still the “most gracious” is not against the spirit of the prayer. Most in poetic English and in Latin usually mean very, very and not above everyone else. So most gracious means very, very gracious in everyday English and not even more gracious than even Jesus. I too recommend The Glories of Mary by The doctor of the church St Alphonsus Maria Liguori. It is easy to read and explains the Hail holy queen thoroughly.
God bless you!

 

[dbreiden]

What shall one do if he would be far too uncomfortable taking part in such sayings?

This is one thing that’s kept me out of the CC.

There is no reason why your discomfort in prayers involving Mary should keep you out of the Church. Come home to the Church. Receive Christ. The only thing you must do that involves Mary is to not contradict doctrinal teachings about Mary (perpetual virgin, immaculate conception, assumption).

I have met some people who, in my opinion, put Mary on too high a pedestal – who overstep the idea of devotion and take it to the point of worship – who claim that Mary directly causes miracles. But the errors of some do not weaken my faith in Christ’s church.

 

[MacQ]

I have seen different variations of this prayer, but at first I thought the words, “Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope” was referring to Jesus who is “our life, our sweetness and our hope”; but in other versions of this prayer, it is clearly referring to Mary. Can someone please help me to understand this better as to how we refer to Mother Mary as our life, our sweetness and our hope?

Also, the part that troubles me most is where she is referred to as our “most gracious Advocate”. Is this “most” to be understood as “very” gracious? It troubles me because it seems to hold her as being a more gracious advocate than that which Jesus Christ is for us.

I do love Our Mother, and I want to get rid of these doubts and fears that still plague me from being raised in a very anti-Catholic, Protestant background.

Thank you!

Good and thoughtful questions!

Think of “most” gracious" this way:
If you say to someone, “You are most kind” or “That is most kind of you”…you’re not saying they’re the kindest person you ever met.

More important: Also consider that for Catholics, Jesus is not simply an “advocate”. That is somewhat protestant thinking. Catholics wouldn’t refer to Him that way. There are some protestant beliefs that hold Him to be somehow standing in our place at judgement, or there for us as an advocate (like a lawyer!).

It is part of conversion for many of us raised in other traditions to question and square some of the conceptions we were raised with.
Hope that helps.

 

[MacQ]

There is no reason why your discomfort in prayers involving Mary should keep you out of the Church. Come home to the Church. Receive Christ. The only thing you must do that involves Mary is to not contradict doctrinal teachings about Mary (perpetual virgin, immaculate conception, assumption).

I have met some people who, in my opinion, put Mary on too high a pedestal – who overstep the idea of devotion and take it to the point of worship – who claim that Mary directly causes miracles. But the errors of some do not weaken my faith in Christ’s church.

You are correct that some Catholics go overboard…overstep.
This was actually addressed at Vatican II (and before that by Pope Pius XII), so it was obviously an issue.
The Council advised us to “abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations as well as from petty narrow-mindedness in considering the singular dignity of the Mother of God”.
To be neither too timid, not too zealous.

Everything about Mary should point to her Son.

 

[friardchips]

You are correct that some Catholics go overboard…overstep.
This was actually addressed at Vatican II (and before that by Pope Pius XII), so it was obviously an issue.
The Council advised us to “abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations as well as from petty narrow-mindedness in considering the singular dignity of the Mother of God”.
To be neither too timid, not too zealous.

Everything about Mary should point to her Son.

This sounds to much like faith with fear. Every Catholic in his or her heart knows that God is our ultimate end.

You don’t have to try so hard to control your faith. Put faith in God’s hands. If your devotion is leading you to really really love your Mother then that is because God thought it wise first. Great stuff! Your are a fortunate soul!

Hence, why Jesus gave us His mother on the Cross. Because He was generous and saw how she had been there for Him along the way of the cross that she might be there for us too.

If you start trying to control the amount of love you have you are not putting faith in God’s hands. Love your Holy Mother with all your heart. If this turns into worship, which it won’t because you are a Catholic, then Our Lady would soon point you in the right direction. Love, love and love. Not fear. Not control. Just love in abundance.

 

[friardchips]

Hail, Holy Queen! Mother of mercy! Hail, our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of eve: to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears! Turn then, our most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus; O clement, O loving, O sweet virgin Mary! Pray for us, O holy mother of God! That we may be worthy of the promises of Christ! Amen.

( - excuse my grammar.)

• where does it state in this prayer that Mary is Christ? What a lovely prayer and exclamation of trusting love to our holy Mother! What a shame to devalue the love in this prayer with fear, rather than simply praying it when in need, with love and affection.

 

[hu324b]

The main part of the prayer is about Jesus - "show unto us the fruit of thy womb “Jesus”

That’s what the prayer is asking.

Protestants are confused how we see Mary

Jesus is God

Mary is full of God"s grace - hail full of grace. This is a bible lines that Protestants ignore out of fear and deny Mary is full of Grace. Its in the bible - so is it a lie?Remember of all people she was with Jesus from his birth to his resurrection and was closer to him than anyone else - do you not think that Jesus made sure his own mother was fully sanctified with the holy spirit - which she already was from the very beginning.God prepared her from the very beginning.
This is a truth. Right there in your bible.

Even in the Hail Mary the central part of the prayer is " Blessed is the fruit of thy womb “Jesus”. which should be said with emphasis.In both prayers.

 

[MacQ]

This sounds to much like faith with fear. Every Catholic in his or her heart knows that God is our ultimate end.

You don’t have to try so hard to control your faith. Put faith in God’s hands. If your devotion is leading you to really really love your Mother then that is because God thought it wise first. Great stuff! Your are a fortunate soul!

Hence, why Jesus gave us His mother on the Cross. Because He was generous and saw how she had been there for Him along the way of the cross that she might be there for us too.

If you start trying to control the amount of love you have you are not putting faith in God’s hands. Love your Holy Mother with all your heart. If this turns into worship, which it won’t because you are a Catholic, then Our Lady would soon point you in the right direction. Love, love and love. Not fear. Not control. Just love in abundance.

I’m afraid you misunderstood my post. Perhaps my fault.
I said nothing about how much to LOVE her.
My post was about the practices and devotions we engage in (which was the topic I was replying to).
And I simply stated what the Church said about that. If you study the matter, you will find that indeed the Church thought it was an issue at the time, and that some catholics’ devotional practices were not reflective of the proper perspective. What we DO should reflect what we believe (lex orandi, lex credendi)

So if you disagree with that, talk to your priest or a bishop.

Frankly, I feel mildly insulted by the insinuation that it’s about control and fear, since you don’t know me, or my attitudes toward the Blessed Mother.
But since I don’t know you, I’ll assume you didn’t mean to be condescendingly lecturing, and that wasn’t your intent (ie that all those “you’s” were not about me, but used instead of the more general sense …YOU should…meaning “a person should”). I hope that is the case.

 

[friardchips]

I’m afraid you misunderstood my post. Perhaps my fault.
I said nothing about how much to LOVE her.

Exactly.

MacQ:

My post was about the practices and devotions we engage in (which was the topic I was replying to).

Same thing. How else are Catholics supposed to show they LOVE her without practices and devotions?

MacQ:

What we DO should reflect what we believe (lex orandi, lex credendi)

And it is acting in goodwill that one should approach everything. As one person’s quote on this forum suggests: we should not DO bad in order to achieve good - or something to that effect. I consider it goodwill to share the knowledge that one does not have to reserve LOVE when saying the prayers handed down to us, as you suggested here:

MacQ:

You are correct that some Catholics go overboard…overstep.

Quite an assumption!

And here…

MacQ:

The Council advised us to “abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations as well as from petty narrow-mindedness in considering the singular dignity of the Mother of God”.

…and here:

- And I simply stated what the Church said about that. If you study the matter, you will find that indeed the Church thought it was an issue at the time, and that some catholics’ devotional practices were not reflective of the proper perspective.

They may have been relevant at the time. However, we are in the now, today. 2014. And it is widely believed and accepted that Catholics, and indeed the world, need our Blessed Mother more than ever. Saints and sinners alike. There are plenty of statements and actions from Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis that would encourage devotion to Our Lady. One example: consecrating the world to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart. More than once! Religious Orders and many, many Saints devote and have devoted love to her unreservedly.

MacQ:

So if you disagree with that, talk to your priest or a bishop.

Getting a bit personal here but not offended. So yes, chance would be a nice thing but unfortunately Bishops are extremely busy people Bishops normally have devotion to Our Lady and would encourage it and not hark back to days gone by.

MacQ:

Frankly, I feel mildly insulted by the insinuation that it’s about control and fear, since you don’t know me, or my attitudes toward the Blessed Mother.

My post was a polite response to your words. Your words convey meaning. When one posts on a forum, the posts are responded to according to the meaning those words express. Your post, your words, do suggest a fear, which is clear from this:

MacQ:

To be neither too timid, not too zealous.

• this is trying to control one’s prayer! And from that, this sentiment can logically be deduced as a fear to love as much as one can without reproach. Everyone suffers from a lack of confidence in prayer from time to time. I would encourage love, rather than holding back which your post is clearly saying we should do. Who are you to measure love? Various prayers point this out! God is the measure of love.

MacQ:

But since I don’t know you, I’ll assume you didn’t mean to be condescendingly lecturing, and that wasn’t your intent (ie that all those “you’s” were not about me, but used instead of the more general sense …YOU should…meaning “a person should”). I hope that is the case.

‘You’ is meant generally also, yes. It is a post to the OP and to you. In terms of being ‘condescending’; I think my words were full of hope. To try and defend with the best of one’s limited ability, that which is considered true and good, including full-hearted, no holds-barred, devotion to Our Lady, is charity towards neighbour; all we are given is good and in God’s hands.

MacQ:

Everything about Mary should point to her Son.

And who is the measure of this? Where do you hear or read of anyone saying: “Dear Mary you are God”. Is this not rather ‘condescending’? Don’t Catholics already know and see that Mary always points to her son?

We are not the ones that direct Our Lady’s attention towards Jesus.

 

[eucharist04]

One does not have to hold Marian devotions.
Having said that, most Catholics understand her to be our Mother…mother of the church, mother of us all, as well as Mother of Jesus. As such, we show her love and respect.
Just as we would for a dear friend’s mother. It’s not as big a deal as people make it out to be. Nobody is going to grill you about it. There are some that hold very BIG devotion to Our Lady. I suppose to people who are not Catholic these people seem to be carried away. On the contrary, they have likely experienced her intercession in a very profound way, and are as they say “eternally grateful”.
Mary intercedes for all of her children, whether or not people have a devotion to her or not. Her life in Heaven is spent adoring God and praying for all of His children, you and I included.
When a person goes through RCIA, they probably have a couple of classes around the theology of Mary, and they will introduce people to the rosary, as a good spiritual practice. But if someone doesn’t particularly care for the rosary as a devotion at that point in time, it doesn’t bar anyone form the faith. Indeed, some of the people in our RCIA sessions who are into “into” Mary, after a few years, seems to develop a close relationship with her eventually. If it happens, it’s great. If not, you’re still Catholic. Mary’s life was a prayer. All prayer is good.

Excellent post:thumbsup:

 

[Rich]

Hail Holy Queen prayer is acknowledging Mary as the Mother of Jesus, and what that means and entails. It is a beautiful prayer.

I don’t know of any other version, as posted.

She advocates or intercedes for us to Jesus, as His Mother, therefore she is most gracious. How would Jesus advocate to Himself?

Hope this helps-

Read Romans 8:34. It says that Jesus intercedes for the saints. Remember God is three in one. In Romans 8:26 the Holy Spirit lives inside all true believers and He also utters prayers we can not. So we have two persons of the God head interceding for us.
Through Jesus and the Holy Spirit we have access to the Father.

 

[MacQ]

and here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacQ

• And I simply stated what the Church said about that. If you study the matter, you will find that indeed the Church thought it was an issue at the time, and that some catholics’ devotional practices were not reflective of the proper perspective.

They may have been relevant at the time. However, we are in the now, today. 2014. And it is widely believed and accepted that Catholics, and indeed the world, need our Blessed Mother more than ever. Saints and sinners alike. There are plenty of statements and actions from Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI and Pope Francis that would encourage devotion to Our Lady. One example: consecrating the world to Our Lady’s Immaculate Heart. More than once! Religious Orders and many, many Saints devote and have devoted love to her unreservedly. .

NO one, including Pius XII who brought up the issue (at the time considered the most “marian” of popes) has ever discouraged devotion to the Blessed Mother. Nor did I.
So you’re taking that on your own tangent, my friend.
I simply said that it is a valid criticism, and even the Church thought so, which is why they devoted time and words to it at Vatican II.
As for it being a relic of the times, I hope you don’t think that the work of Vatican II has reached fulfillment everywhere yet…
It is just a FACT that many catholics were engaging in practices and doctrines that had strayed away from basic tenets. And if you don’t think they still do, well, you need to get out more.

My post was a polite response to your words. Your words convey meaning. When one posts on a forum, the posts are responded to according to the meaning those words express. Your post, your words, do suggest a fear, which is clear from this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacQ
“To be neither too timid, not too zealous.”

• this is trying to control one’s prayer! And from that, this sentiment can logically be deduced as a fear to love as much as one can without reproach. Everyone suffers from a lack of confidence in prayer from time to time. I would encourage love, rather than holding back which your post is clearly saying we should do. Who are you to measure love? Various prayers point this out! God is the measure of love.
  .

I am simply telling you what the Church said. That’s a quote from Pius. I don’t think they were advocating “control” at all. Simply that our outward practices be in line with and reflect Church belief.

.

 

[friardchips]

Read Romans 8:34. It says that Jesus intercedes for the saints. Remember God is three in one. In Romans 8:26 the Holy Spirit lives inside all true believers and He also utters prayers we can not. So we have two persons of the God head interceding for us.
Through Jesus and the Holy Spirit we have access to the Father.

Respectfully, it is certain then, that the prayers and understanding given to us regarding Our Lady are inspired and have been inspired by the Holy Spirit through the Catholic Church and its tradition, that is rooted in Holy Scripture, and Holy Scripture in Christ - as mommy k rightly stated.

The Holy Spirit does pray prayers we cannot hear too. Nice point! However, He also speaks prayers we can. Otherwise, people wouldn’t be able to pray together!

 

[RetroCatholic]

Hello. I would just like to let you know that to be a true Catholic one is NOT required to believe in the salve regina which is the prayer you mentioned. Also one is NOT required to believe in teachings such as mary as mediatrix, or mary as co-redemptrix, no matter what anyone tells you. One is not even reqired to believe in the rosary. There are two very distict groups of people within the one true church, thay can be referred to as mariological minimalists, and maximalists. The minimalists are more in line with the spirit of original catholicism from the early church, which can be seen from the apostolic age and early church fathers. The maximalist views developed much later, as can be seen form a basic overview of church history, and it takes the role of the blessed virgin many to unscriptul excess, and sometimes, what could only compared to heresy. The blessed virgin mary prayes for us, just like all the saints, and her prayes are very effective, it is a beautiful thing, but balance is required, don’t put her on a pedastal. Stand strong in the minimalist position, and your doubts will disapear. And don’t let those who are in error cheat you of the joy of coming home to the wonderful Chuch of jesus founded on the rock of peter. I hope this helped.

 

[friardchips]

MacQ:

I am simply telling you what the Church said.

You were using this quote to suggest that Catholics ‘can’ (in other words - still do) overstep devotion.

MacQ:

That’s a quote from Pius. I don’t think they were advocating “control” at all.

Yes, they were. This is exactly what he was doing. But because he was a Pope, responding to the needs of the time, he was ‘controlling’ a situation that he believed necessary. Popes are to be listened to. As I already said, there have been Popes since, who have advocated the need for strong devotion in our lives, to Our Lady. And they didn’t feel that same need to control because times are different now. Circumstances change and knowledge deepens. So it is you who is not allowing for the fruits of faith to grow in understanding not me! How can I being expressing something fruitless when I am trying to inspire more love for the fruits of faith, not less?

MacQ:

Simply that our outward practices be in line with and reflect Church belief.

Roman Catholics are strongly advised to have a devotion to Our Lady. There are dogmas that people are to believe, and many prayers such as the ‘Hail Mary’ and the ‘Hail, Holy Queen’ are rooted in Scripture. and have grown fruitfully from dogmas.

To sum up:

MacQ:

I’m afraid you misunderstood my post. Perhaps my fault. I said nothing about how much to LOVE her.

Exactly.

MacQ:

My post was about the practices and devotions we engage in (which was the topic I was replying to).

Same thing. How else are Catholics supposed to show they LOVE her without practices and devotions?

Take care and God Bless.