Hail Holy Queen......

[edwinG]

reggie:

edwin,

Can you explain to me please, your understanding of why the church declares someone a saint? You see, there is a very rigorous process before someone is declared a saint. The church starts with the position of disproving the claims. In other words, they do not start our thinking this person is a saint and then look for a to prove it. Every aspect of their life is examined. There must be at least two verifiable miracles attributed to their intercession before they called are blessed and then further miracles before they are cannonized. Many instances are frauds, some are illusion. As I said, the church is very, very careful before making such declarations.

Hi reggie,
I have no idea of why the Catholic Church declares someone a saint. I can’t see how this declaration benefits Jesus. It is easy to see how it distracts from Him. Paul was aghast when people started praising him. Maybe all the ones who have been sainted feel the same, if indeed they are saints.
Am I understanding you. The Catholic Church prays to a person being investigated and if that dead person performs two miracles and then further miracles they are cannonized. Are you contacting the dead? God abhors this.
I must be misunderstanding.

So you question if God is telling the church who is a saint and who is not. Well, in a way, He does. The miracles attributed to a saint are answers to prayers to that saint. If God grants the miracle, isn’t that a way of knowing that person is a saint?
And if a miracle is granted because someone prayed for it, not directly to Jesus, but through the intercession of someone else, then is not God then approving petitions made through another?

No definitely not. God is not approving it. He is allowing you to wallow in your own foolishness. You have been seduced.
I imagine there are a million books like this one below.
It is a Holy Book of Japanese Buddhism “Shinnyo-en”
“However during those nine days the Buddha had me endure one trial after another in order to make me renounce my attachments to all worldly concerns”
1 a resolve to dedicate his life to saving humanity.
2 using a clairvoyance seeing things in the future which later transpired.
3 Both partners were receiving the same instructions but from different locations
4 proclamations were made as to their purity through deep
meditations
5 Their young daughter was attacked and came close to death and her survival depended on his accepting his role to save the earth. It is quite a saga.
Now your argument is that as it was allowed to happen it is from God.
You fail to realise just how strong and deadly serious demons are and how deceitful they are until they entrap you. Do you really think they will declare themselves as evil. Do you think the father of all liars will tell the truth before he tells you lies. Of course he deceives you and keeps you deceived.
You did not pray to Jesus. YOU PRAYED TO DEAD PEOPLE. JESUS DID NOT ANSWER. THE PRAYER WAS NOT TO HIM. you have free will. He allows your free will.
My heart is crying for you.

How do you account for the miracles throughout history? Do you deny that they happened? Do you believe that like the colourful ball you experienced they are hoaxes or “good spirits” of another religion? Remember, these miracles have been thoroughly examined, sometimes for years and years before they have been accepted as such by the church.

You are being deceived.
Check it is so easy.
Go directly to God in Jesus Holy name. Ask for forgiveness. Ask for an answer. Let Him tell you. Do not go to Mary or any saint. As Catholics are allowed to go to Him just go to Him. Do this for one month and then you will know.
You are going to go through some pretty awful tribulation as that evil spirit is going to be mighty upset and Jesus is going to test your resolve to cling to Him alone.
If I am wrong, will Jesus mind if you pray only to Him and beseech only HIm for one month. No You are in a win win situation.
The question is " will the evil spirit let you", will you fall during tribulation.

Any Catholic who wishes to pray only to Jesus may do so. They are not required to venerate or pray to anyone else.

Do this and see what happens. For you eternal life, do this.
Walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

Benadam:

I hope you don’t mind my intrusion Edwin and thank you for the blessing may it be yours as well.

Hi Benadam,
Thanks for the intrusion. Please feel free to drop in at any time. Reading the word is how we learn. I am rushing but I thank you for the two references. I haven’t checked them yet but I certainly will.
May Christ grow in your heart
walk in love
pray only to God in Jesus’s Holy Name.
edwinG

 

[mercygate]

edwinG:

Re your Magisterium. How fully do these men believe. . . .

Again, the Magisterium is not a “they” in the sense you imply. And it is not arbitrary, nor is our trust in it founded upon anything less than the promise of Christ himself.

Magisterium (Lat. magister, a master):
The Church’s divinely appointed authority to teach the truths of religion,
“Going therefore, teach ye all nations… teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you” (Matt. xxviii, 19-20). This teaching is infallible: “And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world” (ibid.).

The solemn magisterium is that which is exercised only rarely by formal and authentic definitions of councils or popes. Its matter comprises dogmatic definitions of æcumenical councils or of the popes teaching ex cathedra, or of particular councils, if their decrees are universally accepted or approved in solemn form by the pope; also creeds and professions of faith put forward or solemnly approved by pope or æcumenical council. The ordinary magisterium is continually exercised by the Church especially in her universal practices connected with faith and morals, in the unanimous consent of the Fathers and theologians, in the decisions of Roman Congregations concerning faith and morals, in the common sense of the faithful, and various historical documents in which the faith is declared. All these are founts of a teaching which as a whole is infallible. They have to be studied separately to determine how far and in what conditions each of them is an infallible source of truth.

A CATHOLIC DICTIONARY (THE CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPÆDIC DICTIONARY)
Edited By Donald Attwater
New York, The Macmillan Company, 1962.
(Copyright 1958, Third Edition)

I don’t suppose any of them believe to the extent that they have the authority promised to those who believe, ie casting out demons, healing by touch, immune to poison and speak new tongues.

Even Protestants understand that these extraordinary gifts were never universal, that most of them were limited to the first Apostles, and that not every Apostle possessed them. If these gifts are the measure by which apostolic truth is demonstrated, then the whole of Christianity today is defective.

Now even the apostles made mistakes, see Peter’s list and yet these men dont have Peters’s faith.

How do you know they don’t? In their teaching office, the Bishops, in union with the Pope, do have Peter’s faith!

These men are just like you and me.

No, edwinG. They are not “just like you and me.” “They” (a faulty conception) are the successors of the Apostles and when teaching the faith, they act under the charism promised at the Great Commission.

And you are blindly accepting them over the Holy Spirit in your own life as your mentor.

I accept nothing blindly. And I do not accept “them” “over” the Holy Spirit. (I am grieved that you do not recognize that I am absolutely aflame with the Holy Spirit .) I accept the Magisterium with open eyes and an open heart. "Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you. (Heb. 13:17)

Ask your self, is it the strength of faith you have in your tradition or is it the lack of faith in His ability to lead you.

Exactly. Christ personally led me through a decades-long struggle from Protestantism to acceptance of his grace on his terms, in **his **Church.

and Christ has a personal yoke that fits only you, only you, and you need the Holy Spirit not the Magisterium.

Sorry, Edwin. I’m Catholic. The Magisterium is part of that yoke. It fits very well.

They cant help you as they dont know anything about you but God knows everything about you.Christians aren’t a herd of sheep but individual sheep making a herd. The joy of finding a lost one. See one counts. . . . You are not one of a bunch of Catholic Christians.

Believe me, edwinG, if Jesus himself hadn’t found me and personally led me home, I wouldn’t be Catholic today. It was nothing short of a miracle. I rejoice to be “one of a bunch of Catholic Christians.” You posit a contradiction between being part of the Church as against being personally saved by Jesus. That is an artificial distinction bred of a Protestant need to justify itself against the Body of Christ.

The new Holy Jerusalem comes down from the kingdom of heaven. . . . We can’t see it as our eyes are not open,but they see us.
my love to you
walk in love
edwin.

edwinG – You’re sounding dangerously Catholic here!

 

[edwinG]

mercygate:

Again, the Magisterium is not a “they” in the sense you imply. And it is not arbitrary, nor is our trust in it founded upon anything less than the promise of Christ himself.
Even Protestants understand that these extraordinary gifts were never universal, that most of them were limited to the first Apostles, and that not every Apostle possessed them. If these gifts are the measure by which apostolic truth is demonstrated, then the whole of Christianity today is defective.
How do you know they don’t? In their teaching office, the Bishops, in union with the Pope, do have Peter’s faith! No, edwinG. They are not “just like you and me.” “They” (a faulty conception) are the successors of the Apostles and when teaching the faith, they act under the charism promised at the Great Commission. I accept nothing blindly. And I do not accept “them” “over” the Holy Spirit. (I am grieved that you do not recognize that I am absolutely aflame with the Holy Spirit .) I accept the Magisterium with open eyes and an open heart. "Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you. (Heb. 13:17)
Exactly. Christ personally led me through a decades-long struggle from Protestantism to acceptance of his grace on his terms, in **his **Church.Sorry, Edwin. I’m Catholic. The Magisterium is part of that yoke. It fits very well.Believe me, edwinG, if Jesus himself hadn’t found me and personally led me home, I wouldn’t be Catholic today. It was nothing short of a miracle. I rejoice to be “one of a bunch of Catholic Christians.” You posit a contradiction between being part of the Church as against being personally saved by Jesus. That is an artificial distinction bred of a Protestant need to justify itself against the Body of Christ.
edwinG – You’re sounding dangerously Catholic here!

Hi mercygate,
I assure you I have never been dangerous in my life. As one bloke said to me when I tried to sound tough, you havent got a mean bone in your body.
I am so pleased to hear about your being aflame with the Holy Spirit. Talk to me about Him, witness to me about His fire in your life so my heart can rejoice, because I tell you in all truth, my heart is very sad for catholics who pray to the saints and receive blessings from them.
Please cheer me up mercygate.
walk in love
grow in Christ
edwinG

 

[reggie]

Okay edwin, I can see that you truly come from no understanding and absolutely no concept of sainthood, prayers to saints or miracles. That’s okay for you, but please don’t cry for me. I am very aware of what I have embraced and why. Your posts however are very enlightening to me in that I am getting a sense of how a protestant approaches faith and church.

First, I must tell you that while I fully accept that it is okay to pray to saints and Mary, I confess that I rarely if ever invoke the name of a saint or address my prayers to one. I have on occasion asked St. Anthony to help me with a lost item, I have asked St. Christopher to protect my family when travelling, and when I think of the lost souls in my family, I remember the lifetime of prayers St. Monica offered for the conversion of her son, St. Augustine. I pray a daily rosary but always begin and end said rosary with prayer to God. So, I don’t need to try for a month to pray only to Jesus because I already do and your assumption that I don’t shows the arrogance with which you have posted in this thread.

That is the enlightenment I have had from your posts and others like you. A protestant seems to approach faith and church in a very self centered way. The Holy Spirit speaks to* me*, Jesus’s yoke is a special fit for me, my eyes are open to the truth etc…

The Catholic approaches faith and church as a community. A community that is past, present and future. All who have lived, all who live now and all who will live are part of the church and everyone is useful for the building up of faith and church. Protestants cannot see the trees for the forest. You see only Jesus, not any of the brothers and sisters who were, are and will be the building stones of the church.

con’t

 

[reggie]

Paul was not aghast because people were praising him, he was disturbed by the fact that people were beginning to say I follow Paul, or Apollos or Timothy and so on.
He saw that the people were identifying themselves not as Christians, but separating themselves according to the teacher. There is nothing like that when it comes to saints. WE KNOW that all saints have received their grace from Jesus. WE KNOW that only Jesus is the Son of God. WE KNOW that without Jesus these saints and martyrs could not have been who they were or done what they did and continue to do. They INSPIRE us, they UPLIFT us, they BRING US JOY and HOPE. And yes, sometimes they are the conduit of prayer from us and a conduit of the answer from God. We are not being deceived by the evil one, we see the promise of Jesus that with Him all things are possible, that we can do anything with Him who strengthens us, and that because of HIS death and resurrection, we as Christians and all those who came before and will come after will live eternal lives. We who have Christ alive in us, will live in Christ forever. I don’t know how to make it any more clear than that. You cannot understand and that is okay, The HOLY SPIRIT has not chosen to give you that gift. As a Catholic, I know that it is a gift, as is all of the gifts I have received from the Holy Spirit including my faith in JESUS.

You assume that you are the only one who knows the truth. You assume that the magisterium does not have the same faith of Peter(although as I remember, there were times when Peter’s faith was shaken and unsure). You assume that God is offended when we call upon HIS CHILDREN as helpmates. You assume that God can’t use any one He wants to accomplish His divine will. You assume that miracles are not the work of God but the devil to lead us astray. What’s truly weird about that is that miracles and the saints they come to us through, tend to bring people closer to God and increase their faith. I guess the devil should find a better way.

I know, he could tell everyone that they are the final authority on Scripture. He could tell everyone that they get to decide what is good or bad. They get to decide what is sinful and what is just. He could tell everyone that when they die, they are just that, dead, nothing else. He could tell everyone that the church is a bunch of old men, with little true faith who want only to control the masses of blind little sheep who follow. He could tell them that the only way God makes Himself known is through Scripture, not sacraments, not symbols, not nature, and never, never through people. He could tell them that history and tradition are meaningless.

Now before I leave this, I must further explain something about the saints. Some people who have lived a saintly life, have had miracles attributed to them while still alive. Some not until after they have died. The cause for sainthood is brought by people who were close to them during their life. Sainthood is not conferred lightly. And it doesn’t mean that the person lived a perfect life. And many of them lived lives of suffering and pain. You impugn many good and Godly men, women and children when you associate them with the devil. Many saints were declared such because they died for the Christian faith.

So once again, please don’t cry for me. And don’t tell me that I am deceived and living a faith that is of the devil. You are not the final word, you don’t have the authority and you can’t possibly understand the depth, richness, and joy to be found in the church and in her saints. You have proferred your take on Scripture, but in the end, only God knows my heart or the hearts of any of us and only God knows who is His and who isn’t.

 

[mayra_hart]

as the word suggest, the communion of saints refers to the bond of unity among all believers,both living and dead, who are committed followers of christ. in christ,we are made part of god’s family(1 tim3:15), children of god(1 john3:1),joint heirs with christ(rom8:17),and partakers of the divine nature(2pet1:4).when i pray specially to mary i feel that iam praying to my spiritual mother an i know she will intercede for me. santa maria madre de dios…

 

[MaggieOH]

edwinG:

Hi mercygate,
I assure you I have never been dangerous in my life. As one bloke said to me when I tried to sound tough, you havent got a mean bone in your body.
I am so pleased to hear about your being aflame with the Holy Spirit. Talk to me about Him, witness to me about His fire in your life so my heart can rejoice, because I tell you in all truth, my heart is very sad for catholics who pray to the saints and receive blessings from them.
Please cheer me up mercygate.
walk in love
grow in Christ
edwinG

Hi Edwin,

why is it that I get the impression that you have not truly understood the beliefs and practices of Catholics, and that you are somehow going off impressions that have been received from a source that does not know Catholicism.

It is not only Mercygate who is aflame with the Holy Spirit, because I can assure you that my own experiences have come as a result of the wonderful things that God has done for me through the Holy Spirit.

This is getting off the subject of the topic and I think that we need to start another thread so that we can discuss our understanding of what it means to be alive and aflame with the Holy Spirit.

MaggieOH

 

[edwinG]

reggie:

. WE KNOW that all saints have received their grace from Jesus. WE KNOW that only Jesus is the Son of God. WE KNOW that without Jesus these saints and martyrs could not have been who they were or done what they did and continue to do. They INSPIRE us, they UPLIFT us, they BRING US JOY and HOPE. And yes, sometimes they are the conduit of prayer from us and a conduit of the answer from God. We are not being deceived by the evil one, we see the promise of Jesus that with Him all things are possible, that we can do anything with Him who strengthens us, and that because of HIS death and resurrection, we as Christians and all those who came before and will come after will live eternal lives. We who have Christ alive in us, will live in Christ forever. I don’t know how to make it any more clear than that. You cannot understand and that is okay, The HOLY SPIRIT has not chosen to give you that gift. As a Catholic, I know that it is a gift, as is all of the gifts I have received from the Holy Spirit including my faith in JESUS.

You assume that you are the only one who knows the truth. You assume that the magisterium does not have the same faith of Peter(although as I remember, there were times when Peter’s faith was shaken and unsure). You assume that God is offended when we call upon HIS CHILDREN as helpmates. You assume that God can’t use any one He wants to accomplish His divine will. You assume that miracles are not the work of God but the devil to lead us astray. What’s truly weird about that is that miracles and the saints they come to us through, tend to bring people closer to God and increase their faith. I guess the devil should find a better way.

I know, he could tell everyone that they are the final authority on Scripture. He could tell everyone that they get to decide what is good or bad. They get to decide what is sinful and what is just. He could tell everyone that when they die, they are just that, dead, nothing else. He could tell everyone that the church is a bunch of old men, with little true faith who want only to control the masses of blind little sheep who follow. He could tell them that the only way God makes Himself known is through Scripture, not sacraments, not symbols, not nature, and never, never through people. He could tell them that history and tradition are meaningless.

Now before I leave this, I must further explain something about the saints. Some people who have lived a saintly life, have had miracles attributed to them while still alive. Some not until after they have died. The cause for sainthood is brought by people who were close to them during their life. Sainthood is not conferred lightly. And it doesn’t mean that the person lived a perfect life. And many of them lived lives of suffering and pain. You impugn many good and Godly men, women and children when you associate them with the devil. Many saints were declared such because they died for the Christian faith.

So once again, please don’t cry for me. And don’t tell me that I am deceived and living a faith that is of the devil. You are not the final word, you don’t have the authority and you can’t possibly understand the depth, richness, and joy to be found in the church and in her saints. You have proferred your take on Scripture, but in the end, only God knows my heart or the hearts of any of us and only God knows who is His and who isn’t.

Hi reggie,
Thanks for you honest post. It is too long for me to respond to bit by bit and point out areas of difference.
My response is One God Him alone.
I know He can talk to us through any means ie through a donkey.
But is it fitting for us to talk back to Him through a donkey or to glorify any of His instruments. To Him alone be the glory as you so rightly said. No more.
I too take comfort from the teaching of those of yesterday and today. As Christ says, we recognise His word. When I hear His word my heart rejoices. It can be from anyone, anywhere. Truth is not bound. But my heart can rejoice.
My heart does not rejoice when I hear of people praying to “dead” people, of dead people replying and performing miracles in response to these prayers. This is not of God. If your heart says it is then your heart and my heart have different fathers or a false loyalty has snagged you.
If you find it difficult in your life to pray to only Him , you should re-examine your practises. This is not against your church teaching.
It agrees with your teaching. Why such a heart felt bitter response by catholics in general to my suggesting you narrow an aspect of your church’s teaching. Examine your hearts and find out why, why why.
Job 42:10 “And the Lord restored Job’s losses when he prayed for his friends . Indeed the Lord gave Job twice as much as he had before.”
Intercession Yes, and God even rewards those who pray intercession. What is wrong with following this model of intercession. Surely this is not wrong to anyone.
Take the narrow path.
Walk in love
edwinG

 

[edwinG]

MaggieOH:

Hi Edwin,

why is it that I get the impression that you have not truly understood the beliefs and practices of Catholics, and that you are somehow going off impressions that have been received from a source that does not know Catholicism.

It is not only Mercygate who is aflame with the Holy Spirit, because I can assure you that my own experiences have come as a result of the wonderful things that God has done for me through the Holy Spirit.

This is getting off the subject of the topic and I think that we need to start another thread so that we can discuss our understanding of what it means to be alive and aflame with the Holy Spirit.

MaggieOH

Hi Maggie,
This is my only source of information regarding catholic practises. In particular which area do you find is not in line with your teachings regarding Mary and the saints.
I notice that it is not possible for you to speak out the words." I will pray to God alone in Jesus Holy name". Have you asked yourself why you cant do this?
walk in love
Grow in Christ
edwinG
ps Did you see the thread by Exporter “Interfaith of Fathers”

 

[Mary3]

edwinG:

Hi Maggie,
This is my only source of information regarding catholic practises.

Hi Edwin,

I’m not sure of your level of interest in learning more, but may I suggest a copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church? You can get a paperback copy for under $10. It is a very nice, systematic summary of what the Catholic Church officially holds to be true. Heavily footnoted with references to Sacred Scripture and other Church documents.

Peace be with you! Mary3

 

[teresas1979]

For me, its the “hail our life our sweetness and our hope” line I cannot accept. Jesus is our life, sweetness and hope so why should we hail Mary as them? Personally I refuse to do that and so the Hail Holy Queen is a prayer I struggle with greatly.

It was my mother’s favourite prayer (though she always said the Salve Regina) and it is printed on her Remembrance cards. And my father always insists on praying it at her graveside. But whenever I pray it I substitute Jesus in my mind and my heart as my gracious Advocate, my life, my sweetness and my hope.

I know that many who seem to place Mary too highly almost always place Jesus far higher still and believe this was the case with my mother. But for myself, I will not pray honour to Mary which I wish to give to God alone.

 

[Scott_Waddell]

teresas1979:

For me, its the “hail our life our sweetness and our hope” line I cannot accept. Jesus is our life, sweetness and hope so why should we hail Mary as them? Personally I refuse to do that and so the Hail Holy Queen is a prayer I struggle with greatly.

It was my mother’s favourite prayer (though she always said the Salve Regina) and it is printed on her Remembrance cards. And my father always insists on praying it at her graveside. But whenever I pray it I substitute Jesus in my mind and my heart as my gracious Advocate, my life, my sweetness and my hope.

I know that many who seem to place Mary too highly almost always place Jesus far higher still and believe this was the case with my mother. But for myself, I will not pray honour to Mary which I wish to give to God alone.

It is right to call Mary our life, sweetness and hope because Jesus wants to give us much grace and so has given us His mother to increase our confidence in that grace. St. Thomas pointed out that “we can place our hope in a person in two ways: as a principle cause and as a mediate cause. Those who expect something from a king put their trust in him as their sovereign. They put their trust in his ministers or courtiers as intercessors. When the favor is granted, it comes really from the king, though the minister or courtier is the intermediary. In this case, the one who seeks the favor is right in calling the intercessor or intermdiary his hope.”

And as St. Anslem says “we pray to her so that her dignity as intercessor may supply for our unworthiness…That when we invoke the Blessed Virgin with this kind of hope, it does not mean we lack hope in God’s mercy, but rather we fear our own lack of the proper dispositions.”

Scott

P.s. Quotes taken from Ligouri’s Glories of Mary.

 

[Axion]

teresas1979:

For me, its the “hail our life our sweetness and our hope” line I cannot accept. Jesus is our life, sweetness and hope so why should we hail Mary as them? Personally I refuse to do that and so the Hail Holy Queen is a prayer I struggle with greatly.

Again, you seem to have absorbed the false contradictions of protestant fundamentalism. It is not “either/or” as the fundamentalist protestant teaches, but “with/and”

Because you Love God, does that mean you can’t say you Love Mary, or you Love your parents, without giving them “what belongs to God alone?”

Of course not. It is not a case of “either/or”, but “as well as”, and “because of”. Don’t follow people who try to bind you up in guilt because you love others as well as God (but not more than Him).

How is Mary “our life”?

Because through her obedience to God’s word, she reversed the disobedience of Eve, and made possible the incarnation of our saviour Jesus, and the new life through Him.

How is she our “sweetness”?

Because she was given to us by Christ from the cross to be a mother to all His brethren, that is all Christians, to pray, help and intercede for us.

How is she our “hope”?

Because having been taken into heaven and granted all honour and the crowns promised to those who endure in Jesus. She is therefore the greatest example of the promises of Jesus fulfilled, and is therefore a sign of hope to all of us who struggle on earth.

 

[mrS4ntA]

“De Maria numquam satis amoris!”



“Concerning Mary there is never enough love.”

 

[MaggieOH]

edwinG:

Hi Maggie,
This is my only source of information regarding catholic practises. In particular which area do you find is not in line with your teachings regarding Mary and the saints.
I notice that it is not possible for you to speak out the words." I will pray to God alone in Jesus Holy name". Have you asked yourself why you cant do this?
walk in love
Grow in Christ
edwinG
ps Did you see the thread by Exporter “Interfaith of Fathers”

Dear Edwin,

this is still getting the subject off topic. However you are wrong about what I pray. Every single morning I give praise and honour to God, who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Maggie

 

[Benadam]

Many people aren’t seeing what God is showing about Himself by making Mary His Mother. In order for life to be raised up from a lower state, it must be lifted up by life from above. God Himself bows down to the ground and gives homage to man. We should bow down to the ground below us as well.

Through Him everything was made and through Mary, that which everything was made through was made. The earth is made through the Saviour. The earth recieves it’s Saviour through Mary.

God has shown us through Mary that He loves us as much as He loves His own self. Can we trully love ourselves as God loves us?

God wishes to raise us up to Himself. We are called to become as God. Moses is called ‘like God’ to his brother Aaron. This was because Moses and The Lord shared a bond. A covenant between God and Moses that passed to Aaron the priest to the People of God. That was heaven under construction. God was building a structure of increasingly intimate relationship with man untill He was at the pinnacle where He could shoot that arrow into Mary’s womb and experience the most intimate and involuntary natural bond between humans that of Mother and Child. That bond is the final rung on the ladder of bonds, or covenants, God has kept in His heart since the beginning.

 

[reggie]

edwin,
You have been very respectful but it is clear that we are on an endless circle here, and we are getting nowhere. I have told you that I pray to God, in the name of Jesus, everyday. When praying a rosary, it is Jesus’s life that I reflect upon. But, Mary is an integral part of that life. Yes, there is only one God. We do not place any above Him. But, God chose to come to us as a man. He did not just raise Jesus out of the dust, but came to us in the same way we all came to life. Through a woman. Now, I suppose He could have just forced himself on some poor unsuspecting woman, but that is not His way. He needed the cooperation of a woman. Mary was that woman. She didn’t fully comprehend it all, but she knew that God had called upon her and she freely gave her life to Him. She is the means through which Jesus became Man, therefore, it is through her that we have His saving grace. Does the grace come from her? NO. But, God used her as a conduit of His grace. This is true of the saints. Every life is precious to God, we are all called to be vessels of His love. That call does not end with our life. God used them to show His love for all of us. He continues to use them. He doesn’t need them, He chose them. Our affection and veneration of saints and Mary in no way diminishes or detracts from our love and worship of God. We believe that each and every one of them are in the presence of God.

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen. We are the finite creatures, limited by time and space. Those who have gone to be with God are no longer bound. God chose to use them in this life, I have no doubt that He continues to use them now that they have eternity with Him. As I said, He doesn’t need them to receive and answer prayer, but He has chosen to do so.

 

[Church_Militant]

teresas1979:

For me, its the “hail our life our sweetness and our hope” line I cannot accept. Jesus is our life, sweetness and hope so why should we hail Mary as them? Personally I refuse to do that and so the Hail Holy Queen is a prayer I struggle with greatly.

I’d rethink that way you ionterpret this prayer…
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope. To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve: to thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us, and after this our exile, show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary! Amen.

She is the mother of…

 

[Church_Militant]

edwinG:

Hi Maggie,
This is my only source of information regarding catholic practises. In particular which area do you find is not in line with your teachings regarding Mary and the saints.
I notice that it is not possible for you to speak out the words." I will pray to God alone in Jesus Holy name". Have you asked yourself why you cant do this?
walk in love
Grow in Christ
edwinG
ps Did you see the thread by Exporter “Interfaith of Fathers”

Edwin,
That’s because this is not the topic of this thread. You need to realize that you do not see the intercession of saints as we do and let it go at that if it bugs you so much, because there is enough scriptural evidence to make our beliefs as valid as any of yours. Every time a Catholic prays he prays in the name of Jesus with the sign of the cross. If you ask others to pray for you then you are no different from us since you obviously don’t feel that asking for the intercession of other believers in some way diminishes God, we just know the meaning of that great cloud of witnesses in Hebrews 12 and that they are not there just sitting on their hands as far as we are concerned.

You will find that every time that you pull some aspect of Catholicism out of context of all of it that you get a misperception of what Christianity is all about as well as our most holy faith.
Pax vobiscum,