Hail, Holy Queen

[TarlsQtr]

Typology is the key to Scripture because the New Covenant was hidden in the Old Covenant and is revealed through the Incarnation, Birth, Life, Crucifixion, Resurrection, and Ascension of our Lord Jesus Christ!

I do not know if he was the first to say it or he was quoting, but I heard Fulton Sheen say it best. “The new is in the old concealed, the old in the new revealed. The new is in the old contained, the old in the new explained.”

God Bless!

Jeff

 

[cpayne]

With all the numerology going on in Revelation (there are like a million “7’s” in the book), does anyone know what’s the symbolism behind 1260 days. I mean, it’s half of 7 years. Is there anything special about that fact?

There are three major interpretations. One is held by many Protestants in the U.S., that it is the first half of the “Great Tribulation” (the seven years following the “Rapture” of the Church), and so is still in the future. Another interpretation is that this was already fulfilled in the first century–that the seven years covers from A.D. 66 to 70, when the Temple is destroyed (first 3 1/2 years), then to 73, when the Jews are wiped out at Masada. The third interpretation is that it is a number symbolic of completion, and so the seven years don’t stand for any particular time period.

I am inclined toward the A.D. 66-73 view (which would mean that Revelation was written “Before Jerusalem Fell”–which coincidentally happens to be the title of a book written by Kenneth Gentry).

 

[cpayne]

Also see Post 54 for a rather nifty idea I hadn’t considered before.

 

[cpayne]

I am further inclined to think (I know no one asked–consider it lagniappe) that the woman in Chapter 12 actually is primarily referring to Israel. However, just as the Ark of the Covenant is a picture of Mary carrying the Word, so also is Israel a picture of Mary bringing forth the Messiah. So the woman of Ch. 12 can easily carry a double meaning.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Strange that you now want to employ the ECF’s in support of non biblical doctrine, where before you claim that their “opinions” don’t represent official church teaching.

Both positions are true. The ECFs were not infallible; therefore, when you quote a Father who may not have fully agreed with a doctrine that the Church has come to embrace, we can forgive his error because he could not be expected to be perfect in all areas of theology. However, as a rule the ECFs were overwhelmingly and solidly orthodox Catholics.

Kaycee, this is a hard fact you’ll have to accept: I can quote the Fathers as often as I want to support my positions because the majority of the Fathers held solidly Catholic positions. I can also ignore those small few that were “off the reservation” theologically precisely because they were ultimately overruled by the majority.

There’s not one thing you can do to change this fact.

Fortunately, I have the Scripture to see where the early church stayed on the tracks and where it derailed. I dont have to wonder.

Actually, all you have is your own misinterpretation of scripture which causes you to misunderstand or misjudge infallible Church teaching.

Thankfully, God Breathed Scripture has authority over any and all writings as the ECF’s would agree.

No question. Thankfully, WE have an infallible God-breathed Church which interprets that God-Breathed scripture correctly.

As the ECFs would also agree. :tiphat:

 

[NotWorthy]

I do not know if he was the first to say it or he was quoting, but I heard Fulton Sheen say it best. “The new is in the old concealed, the old in the new revealed. The new is in the old contained, the old in the new explained.”

God Bless!

Jeff

St. Augustine coined that phrase.

 

[Ignatius]

Our Life, our sweetness, our hope? I have a problem with this in regards to Mary. Not so much the sweetness part, but our Life and our Hope??? That seems to me to be elevating Mary to the same place as our Lord. I’m sure I’m misundertanding or misinterpreting this, (I hope), but some good Catholic answers would be helpful.

All the honour that Mary receives is due to who her Son is.
I also want to point out that there is a spurious argument that honouring Mary takes away from Jesus. Jesus was perfectly without sin and so honoured His parents. We honuor Him whenever we honour her.

 

[Dr_M]

Yes! and Jesus’ name was "Yeshua". Why don’t you refer to Him by that name?

Jesus derives from the Greek. Yeshua derives from the Hebrew. Both mean Joshua. There is no contridiction.

Rev 12:1 has a double reference, being Mary (see Gen 3:15), and also being Israel.

I love being Catholic, extra prayers never hurt anyone

 

[HisBeloved]

Our Mother, Our Spiritual Mother, how awesome for those “wise brides” to recongize You at Our Lord’s table. Should one ignore or not reverence the Mother Of “God” ( if that truly truly is whom You are Jesus Christ…God!!! ) when they enter that Great Banquet in Heaven, how much would your Son feel offended to see His Bride walk past His Mother & just ignore Her and plop down at that table as if she had a seat.

Let us be ever aware that those eyes of the Communion of SAINTS…will also stand to judge US!!!

Please go into that inner Chamber with us women…that desire to have His Mother present when we are presented to the King of Kings, our BRIDEGROOM & help us to discern what Your Son desires in a True Bride Of Christ. Help us to be full of Grace as You were, help us to put on the Wedding Garment, the Robe He so perfers, such as modesty & meekness, pondering all these things, do not let us forget true humility to lay at His feet.

I pray for Your Holy intercession Mother…that you would help us women in America & all over the world SEE what an awesome Holy example You have set…for us to follow. Let us ever be ashamed to not look upon You & call You our own.

Jesus, help us all to realize…we all…are called to Love one another, whatever denomination we are… & to do as your Mother said…“Do whatever HE tells you to”.

I am so Grateful my Lord to have a Mother in Heaven as well as a FATHER. I have many a spiritual mom’s here, so why not there next to you. I always wanted my own mother when I was little & now I am filled more so…with Your Love, Heavenly King, to know I have a Mother in Heaven as well One that stood by You all those days, & now You have opened my eyes & said to me…“BEHOLD YOUR MOTHER!!!” Thank you for the beautiful Rose to throw at Your Feet…Mary.

( please meditate on PSALM 45 & ask JESUS who is the one whom is led in & ask for Jesus to reveal what one must do to be Her…I garentee you He will show you His Mother. )

His Bride & Beloved,
Amy

 

[Cadellin]

Deuteronomy 20:3-5:
You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an image IN THE FORM OF ANYTHING …You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God.

Deuteronomy 20:3-5 in the New American Bible says:
'3 Hear, O Israel! Today you are going into battle against your enemies. Be not weak hearted or afraid: be neither alarmed nor frightened of them. 4 For it is the Lord God who goes with you to fight for you against your enemies and give you victory. 5 Then the officials shall say to the soldiers, ‘Is there anyone who has built a new house and not yet had the house warming? Let him return home, lest he die and another dedicate it.’

Sounds more like an opt-out clause for conscripts than a condemnation of idolatry.

You mean Exodus 20:3-5. The passage condemns the creating of images of false gods. It does not condemn creating images of the true God. How can one create an image of the true God? Well, Jesus is the image of God (Jn 14:9 ‘Whoever has seen me has seen the Father’), so a statue of Jesus, one could argue, is an image of the true God and therefore is not prohibited by the passage. The same is true of images of Mary and the saints: they are sign-posts to the true God, not substitutes for Him.

The problem is a cultural not a religious one. Protestant culture sees all religious images as idols; Catholic culture sees the difference between idols and true religious images.

 

[kbharbert]

:extrahappy: :extrahappy:

Well, then it’s a good thing that we don’t think of Mary as a goddess, nor worship statues, isn’t it?

THAT was a REALLY good answer!!!
sometimes i just get so TIRED of trying to explain to people that Catholics do NOT worship Mary or pray to statues or all the OTHER stuff that people get in their heads.
i don’t mind honest inquiry…it’s the holier-than-thou-i-know-more-about-it-than-you-do **** that makes my eye twitch

 

[East_and_West]

Lets all offer a prayer for those poor souls who do not know their Mother.
Hail Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, our Life, our Sweetness, and our Hope. To thee do we pray, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning, and weeping in this valley of tears. Turn then most gracious adovacte thine eyes of mercy towards us and after this our exile, reveal unto us the most blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary. Pray for us O Holy Mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

 

[cpayne]

:extrahappy: :extrahappy:


THAT was a REALLY good answer!!!
sometimes i just get so TIRED of trying to explain to people that Catholics do NOT worship Mary or pray to statues or all the OTHER stuff that people get in their heads.
i don’t mind honest inquiry…it’s the holier-than-thou-i-know-more-about-it-than-you-do **** that makes my eye twitch

I’ve been thinking about this, and now it seems really odd to me. Suppose I were talking to a Theravada Buddhist, who tells me, “Some of the Mahayana Buddhists may worship Buddha, but we do not. We think of him as an extraordinary man, the Enlightened One, but JUST a man. He is not divine, nor is he worshipped.”

Here’s what seems odd: How many times would this Buddhist have to explain this to me before it sinks it that he doesn’t worship Buddha (even though they do have statues of Buddha)? Wouldn’t he be puzzled and offended if I kept asking him–no, accusing him—of worshipping Buddha? Wouldn’t he eventually say, “Look, didn’t you understand the first time I explained?”

How many times do some people need explanations regarding Catholics and the veneration (not worship) of Mary? Why isn’t it apparently “soaking in”?

 

[kbharbert]

I’ve been thinking about this, and now it seems really odd to me. Suppose I were talking to a Theravada Buddhist, who tells me, “Some of the Mahayana Buddhists may worship Buddha, but we do not. We think of him as an extraordinary man, the Enlightened One, but JUST a man. He is not divine, nor is he worshipped.”

Here’s what seems odd: How many times would this Buddhist have to explain this to me before it sinks it that he doesn’t worship Buddha (even though they do have statues of Buddha)? Wouldn’t he be puzzled and offended if I kept asking him–no, accusing him—of worshipping Buddha? Wouldn’t he eventually say, “Look, didn’t you understand the first time I explained?”

How many times do some people need explanations regarding Catholics and the veneration (not worship) of Mary? Why isn’t it apparently “soaking in”?

i’m WITH ya!! LOL.
i THINK it’s because it’s EASIER to continue to believe what you already believe instead of opening up your mind and admitting you just MIGHT have been wrong.
true story:
i once had a friend who was a self described ‘rabid feminist atheist’.
the Catholic Church was right up there in her mind with hitler and nuclear war. LOL.
she was FULLY aware i was converting but kept trying to tell me all the ‘wretched’ things done in the name of religion. (my response was that ‘in the name of’ was a key part of that phrase.
anyway…her BIG thing was the ‘secretiveness’ of the church. to hear her tell it…it wouldn’t surprise her if the Catholic Church held the cure to cancer in their vaults and was keeping it secret. (i never did find out WHY that would happen).
right before my declaraction of faith to the assembly of my parish, i mentioned that i was a bit nervous being in front of all those people and not knowing anything that was to happen other than what my replies were to be to certain questions. she JUMPED on it. ‘SEE!!! i TOLD you’ she said. ‘SECRET RITUALS!!! IT’S A CULT!!!’
after the service i called her and explained the ‘secret’ part was simply the ‘sealing’ of my mind, eyes, mouth, heart, hands and feet…‘marking’ me (so to speak) that i always thought, saw, spoke, loved, worked and walked with Christ. the Father and Sister felt that not telling my RCIA class what to expect, gave us the opportunity to really FEEL and experience what was going on without pre-determined ideas as to what we were SUPPOSED to feel or experience.
her reply:
“well what ELSE would you tell me? you’re one of them now!”

 

[cpayne]

LOL!

 

[BradW]

Did Jesus ever call Mary queen of heaven?

Did any Apostles ever call her queen of heaven?

Does the Bible record the resurrected Jesus ever apearing to Mary?

Is there any biblical record of anyone being told to pray to Mary?

Do any New testament writers record her assumption?

Are there any epistles written that mention Mary?

Is there an explanation regarding the utter lack of any mention of Mary and her role after the Virgin Birth?

How can the theological importance of Mary being the “queen of heaven” “Dispenser of all heavenly graces” not be mentioned once in the entire Bible?

Simply put: when the books of the Bible were being written, Mary was still alive! She had not yet been assumed to heaven, thus not yet crowned as queen. Being the humble handmaid of the Lord, she probably wasn’t even expecting it, must less run around telling the apostles, hey, I’m going to be queen of heaven some day, so just watch yourself…

As to “the utter lack of any mention of Mary and her role after the Virgin Birth”, or that Mary never went to a desert; well, for someone that relies only on the Bible, shouldn’t you know it just a wee bit better than that?

 

[kaycee]

How many times do some people need explanations regarding Catholics and the veneration (not worship) of Mary? Why isn’t it apparently “soaking in”?

I guess its because Catholics kneel before statues of Mary and pray to her. Protestants only pray to and worship God only.

Dulia or Latria are slight semantical twists, but in practice there is basically no difference. Both are praying to God or the saints with requests.

 

[Vaclav]

I guess its because Catholics kneel before statues of Mary and pray to her. Protestants only pray to and worship God only.

There are Protestants who pray the Ave Maria.

Dulia or Latria are slight semantical twists, but in practice there is basically no difference. Both are praying to God or the saints with requests.

There is a major difference between the two, otherwise you would be commanded to worship your parents.

 

[NotWorthy]

I guess its because Catholics kneel before statues of Mary and pray to her. Protestants only pray to and worship God only.

Dulia or Latria are slight semantical twists, but in practice there is basically no difference. Both are praying to God or the saints with requests.

Except for the fact (or slight semantical twist) that all worship involves Sacrifice. I don’t see any Sacrificial Offerings rising up to heaven, except for that one pure oblation from east to west prophecied by Malachi.

 

[japhy]

I guess its because Catholics kneel before statues of Mary and pray to her. Protestants only pray to and worship God only.

Dulia or Latria are slight semantical twists, but in practice there is basically no difference. Both are praying to God or the saints with requests.

Yes, some Catholics do kneel before status of Mary and pray to her. That is, to Mary, not to the statue of Mary. They can do this because the Catholic Church believes in the communion of saints, the cloud of witnesses (Hebrews 12:1); the saints who have died in Christ are alive to him, and are therefore alive to us who are in Christ, for who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:35, 38-39)

Of course, Catholics only worship God. We venerate the saints, and pay the highest form of veneration to Mary, the mother of God and the first Christian. (I might add I don’t see a lot of kneeling in the Protestant churches I’ve visited.)