Hail Mary- Biblical support?

[Agripa]

Just curious as to your perspective on Marian apparations

I think such apparations need serious study and review. It seems odd to me that the most well known of these events usually occur only to very young, uneducated Catholic peasants living within predominantly Catholic countries and to no one else.

If Mary, in a supernatural state (I won’t use the term godess or demi-god so as not to offend the timid) appears to humans, why only to those most likely to beleive in her? Why does’t Mary choose to appear to a highly educated, secularist member of the media elite, or to an atheist professor of philosophy in a Protestant nation like Denmark or Norway? It seems if she did that, it would certainly go much further in driving the “Mary Message” to what we are told is a world hungry for that message.

My point is, these apparations seem very insular and self perpetuating and sutaining within the single faith community that alone bestows a very high level of emotional attachment to this particular icon.

 

[peary]

You do not need to be insulting - we may have a different perspective, but you do not need to demean the conversation by insults.

Your perspective doesn’t count because it is MY perspective that you are challenging.

 

[Victorious]

I think such apparations need serious study and review. It seems odd to me that the most well known of these events usually occur only to very young, uneducated Catholic peasants living within predominantly Catholic countries and to no one else.

If Mary, in a supernatural state (I won’t use the term godess or demi-god so as not to offend the timid) appears to humans, why only to those most likely to beleive in her? Why does’t Mary choose to appear to a highly educated, secularist member of the media elite, or to an atheist professor of philosophy in a Protestant nation like Denmark or Norway? It seems if she did that, it would certainly go much further in driving the “Mary Message” to what we are told is a world hungry for that message.

My point is, these apparations seem very insular and self perpetuating and sutaining within the single faith community that alone bestows a very high level of emotional attachment to this particular icon.

This is typical of the worldly, elitist point of view. The Blessed Mother does not appear to highly-educated secularists and media elites to get her message across precisely because they would not listen. God always chooses the poor and lowly for His work, because they don’t have big, fat, arrogant egos to get in the way.

If Mary, in a supernatural state (I won’t use the term godess or demi-god so as not to offend the timid) appears to humans, why only to those most likely to beleive in her?

This, coupled with all the cries for civility and to refrain from being insulting, is beneath contempt.

 

[Agripa]

Your perspective doesn’t count because it is MY perspective that you are challenging.

Yes, and I should think that good Catholics enjoy the challenge.

 

[holy_moly]

I think such apparations need serious study and review. It seems odd to me that the most well known of these events usually occur only to very young, uneducated Catholic peasants living within predominantly Catholic countries and to no one else.

If Mary, in a supernatural state (I won’t use the term godess or demi-god so as not to offend the timid) appears to humans, why only to those most likely to beleive in her? Why does’t Mary choose to appear to a highly educated, secularist member of the media elite, or to an atheist professor of philosophy in a Protestant nation like Denmark or Norway? It seems if she did that, it would certainly go much further in driving the “Mary Message” to what we are told is a world hungry for that message.

My point is, these apparations seem very insular and self perpetuating and sutaining within the single faith community that alone bestows a very high level of emotional attachment to this particular icon.

I think purity has more to do w/ it, but do you honestly think such ‘visions’ would stand the test of time & spread 'round the world? Not a chance, unless there was something to them. It would be like my daughters saying they saw the Easter bunny, & have it become worldwide news for hundreds of years; complete w/ accompanying miracles no less!

 

[Agripa]

This is typical of the worldly, elitist point of view. The Blessed Mother does not appear to highly-educated secularists and media elites to get her message across precisely because they would not listen. God always chooses the poor and lowly for His work, because they don’t have big, fat, arrogant egos to get in the way.

Or, put another way, some might posit that religion always seeks the zealous ignorance of un-educated, peasant youth since they are most easily imbued and manipulated with fanciful notions of spirits, apparations, incantations and heavenly messages!

 

[holy_moly]

I think such apparations need serious study and review. It seems odd to me that the most well known of these events usually occur only to very young, uneducated Catholic peasants living within predominantly Catholic countries and to no one else.

If Mary, in a supernatural state (I won’t use the term godess or demi-god so as not to offend the timid) appears to humans, why only to those most likely to beleive in her? Why does’t Mary choose to appear to a highly educated, secularist member of the media elite, or to an atheist professor of philosophy in a Protestant nation like Denmark or Norway? It seems if she did that, it would certainly go much further in driving the “Mary Message” to what we are told is a world hungry for that message.

My point is, these apparations seem very insular and self perpetuating and sutaining within the single faith community that alone bestows a very high level of emotional attachment to this particular icon.

P.S. Besides, why would all these independent ‘visions’ concoct a story about Mary when the could just go to the top & say they saw Jesus OK, I’ll tellya why… Jesus is already present: body, soul & divinity in the Eucharist; everyday to millions of Catholics around the world

 

[Agripa]

I think purity has more to do w/ it, but do you honestly think such ‘visions’ would stand the test of time & spread 'round the world? Not a chance, unless there was something to them. It would be like my daughters saying they saw the Easter bunny, & have it become worldwide news for hundreds of years; complete w/ accompanying miracles no less!

I absolutely believe that if you think you see a woman’s face in the grain patterns of a pine board, put a picture of it on the internet along with your home address, there is a good chance you will have 10,000 Mexican peasants at your door within a week trying to pray to the image.

In a world where people believe the most outlandish, crazy poppycock imaginable, I certainly agree many millions of people will hear about something that someone else saw, repeat that tale and others will believe it too - for the simple reason that humans WANT to believe these things - it gives them hope that there is a crazy, strange, wonderful life other than the dull or painful life they lead, but it does not mean its real.

Millions of people tune in to TV preachers who seem to heal some poor sap with a gimp or a pain and these same millions send that same preacher a $5.00, $20.00, or $50.00 “love” gift every month!

And another strange thing is that up until there were real airplanes and spaceships, yokels always saw saints, Mary, angels, gnomes, elves and magical dwarves. Then, by the middle of last century, such “apparitions” changed, and suddenly the yokels claimed UFO’s were appearing and sucking them up into their flying saucers and probing them, then returning the yokel to his farm house bedroom by morning’s light!

And the scary thing about such suggestions is that it leads to mass movements which can bring real harm and damage to people. 7 foolish religious zealots actually believed God was waiting for them with 30 virgins each in the afterlife if they simply brought death to themselves and the Infidels so they crashed a few planes and killed 3,000 people.

So in answer to your question, yes, I do think “visions” stand the test of time because humans will always want to see visions, whether or not they are real.

 

[holy_moly]

I absolutely believe that if you think you see a woman’s face in the grain patterns of a pine board, put a picture of it on the internet along with your home address, there is a good chance you will have 10,000 Mexican peasants at your door within a week trying to pray to the image.

In a world where people believe the most outlandish, crazy poppycock imaginable, I certainly agree many millions of people will hear about something that someone else saw, repeat that tale and others will believe it too - for the simple reason that humans WANT to believe these things - it gives them hope that there is a crazy, strange, wonderful life other than the dull or painful life they lead, but it does not mean its real.

Millions of people tune in to TV preachers who seem to heal some poor sap with a gimp or a pain and these same millions send that same preacher a $5.00, $20.00, or $50.00 “love” gift every month!

And another strange thing is that up until there were real airplanes and spaceships, yokels always saw saints, Mary, angels, gnomes, elves and magical dwarves. Then, by the middle of last century, such “apparitions” changed, and suddenly the yokels claimed UFO’s were appearing and sucking them up into their flying saucers and probing them, then returning the yokel to his farm house bedroom by morning’s light!

And the scary thing about such suggestions is that it leads to mass movements which can bring real harm and damage to people. 7 foolish religious zealots actually believed God was waiting for them with 30 virgins each in the afterlife if they simply brought death to themselves and the Infidels so they crashed a few planes and killed 3,000 people.

So in answer to your question, yes, I do think “visions” stand the test of time because humans will always want to see visions, whether or not they are real.

Only problem w/ all this agripa is that there was no internet or tv or you tube, not even twitter, so how do you explain the success of all those apparitions? Though I do believe it when you said, “absolutely believe that if you think you see a woman’s face in the grain patterns of a pine board, put a picture of it on the internet along with your home address, there is a good chance you will have 10,000 Mexican peasants at your door within a week trying to pray to the image”!

 

[hawkeye]

I think Catholics like to pretend to not worship Mary, they give strange responses such as “we petition her to intercede” as if she is a demi god-ess lawyer or something before the mighty man-throne of God!

Catholics aren’t allowed to worship Mary, worship is for God alone, we honour Mary.

In any event, I wonder if you can be a true Catholic and never “pray” to Mary at all? Is it a necessity that Catholics pray to Mary?

No.

 

[peary]

I think such apparations need serious study and review. It seems odd to me that the most well known of these events usually occur only to very young, uneducated Catholic peasants living within predominantly Catholic countries and to no one else.

If Mary, in a supernatural state (I won’t use the term godess or demi-god so as not to offend the timid) appears to humans, why only to those most likely to beleive in her? Why does’t Mary choose to appear to a highly educated, secularist member of the media elite, or to an atheist professor of philosophy in a Protestant nation like Denmark or Norway? It seems if she did that, it would certainly go much further in driving the “Mary Message” to what we are told is a world hungry for that message.

My point is, these apparations seem very insular and self perpetuating and sutaining within the single faith community that alone bestows a very high level of emotional attachment to this particular icon.

At that time the disciples approached Jesus and said, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” He called a child over, placed it in their midst, and said, "Amen, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:1-4)

 

[hawkeye]

If Mary, in a supernatural state (I won’t use the term godess or demi-god so as not to offend the timid) appears to humans, why only to those most likely to beleive in her? Why does’t Mary choose to appear to a highly educated, secularist member of the media elite, or to antion like Denmark or Norway? It se atheist professor of philosophy in a Protestant naems if she did that, it would certainly go much further in driving the “Mary Message” to what we are told is a world hungry for that message.

My point is, these apparations seem very insular and self perpetuating and sutaining within the single faith community that alone bestows a very high level of emotional attachment to this particular icon.