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Vivian42
Guest
Not everything is entitled to man…we’re not the only beings on Earth.
Half of God's creation survives only because of the deaths of the other half?
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fisherman_carl
Guest
The only thing we can really say is to acknowledge that we don’t live in a perfect world. And that this life is a journey to something better. Christianity still has the best explanation for why we live in such a world. And the most hope for something better.
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petra22
Guest
I guess it’s called will to survive and we all have it or we would just crawl out on the iceberg and let nature take its course… ??
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fisherman_carl
Guest
Do you live in the North Pole? I would have to travel quite a ways from where I live to find an iceberg.
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Vivian42
Guest
Well, maybe we’ll find some random planet that holds entirely peaceful creatures. It’s not impossible. The life forms of our planet adapted in order to sustain an efficient general distribution of resources , because as you probably already know, they’re not endless and need time to be remade. It’s not nice and forces beings to make sacrifices in order to keep it all going. But that’s the downside to having life in an almost lifeless Universe. A god may or may haven’t directly intervened in the evolution of species on our planet. We must accept life and death as they are…because we can’t escape this circle. Soon enough the humans species will be extinct…and some other intelligent life will take our place. I know that’s terrifying…but numerous species have gone extinct too. And maybe that’s for the best knowing how much harm we do to the life on Earth (that includes ourselves).
I’ve also been thinking…Instead of rising the intellect and overcoming the deepest primal fears humans have… we’ve been just feeding them for thousands of years and locking our greatest weapon (the mind) while creating chaos for really no reason. Power and uncontrollable desire is truly a frightening combination . Talking about the state of humanity and the beings on Earth is really just a philosophical yet unanswered question which will probably never be fully solved until we realize our place. Including God’s almost inexistent “love” in this reality (+the original sin as you said) is the worst “argument” anyone can come up with…
So…I guess the conclusion is that we really can’t do much about the circle of life on Earth, but we can try to regain balance and peace generally among us at least .
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fisherman_carl
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laocmo
Guest
“The wolf shall dwell with the lamb,
and the leopard shall lie down with the kid,
and the calf and the lion and the fatling together,
and a little child shall lead them.
The cow and the bear shall feed;
their young shall lie down together;
and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
The sucking child shall play over the hole of the asp,
and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den.”
What a lot of wishful thinking! Actually what a lot of nonsense. If you think this will ever happen you are living in a dream world. You need help facing reality. Such a radical change in the instinctive makeup of those animals and their physiology would be impossible by any stretch of the imagination. How could any educated human ever conceive these animals all suddenly changing into animals with the temperament of a bunch of cows? Wishful thinking, wishful thinking, pie in the sky…
and the leopard shall lie down with the kid,
and the calf and the lion and the fatling together,
and a little child shall lead them.
The cow and the bear shall feed;
their young shall lie down together;
and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
The sucking child shall play over the hole of the asp,
and the weaned child shall put his hand on the adder’s den.”
What a lot of wishful thinking! Actually what a lot of nonsense. If you think this will ever happen you are living in a dream world. You need help facing reality. Such a radical change in the instinctive makeup of those animals and their physiology would be impossible by any stretch of the imagination. How could any educated human ever conceive these animals all suddenly changing into animals with the temperament of a bunch of cows? Wishful thinking, wishful thinking, pie in the sky…
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fisherman_carl
Guest
This is in fact Scripture, not pie in the sky. But, then everything is pie in the sky to the atheist. Well, many people would say what you said about man ever getting along with each other too. But, with the LORD anything is possible. Also, you missed the most important part of the quote:
"They shall not hurt or destroy
in all my holy mountain;
for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD
as the waters cover the sea. "
Here is a quote for reference from the Catholic Navarre bible commentary"
“The second part [Isaiah 11:6-9] describes very beautifully the messianic peace that will flower with this new “shoot” [The Messiah]. It paints a panorama of the harmony that reigned at the dawn of creation, only to be broken by sin. Even among wild beasts violence will disappear. No longer will man in his pride desire to be “like God, knowing good and evil” (Gen 3:5); instead he will be filled with the divine gift of the “knowledge of the Lord” (v. 9)”
“Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh; is anything too hard for me?” (Jer 32:27)
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mikekle
Guest
**From Petra22: And look how all the dead dinosaurs turned into coal and oil??? Useful for man?
It always amazes me how God takes something we think is bad and turns it into good…
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yea, I dont think God created and let the dinosaurs rule the earth for 100s of millions of years, just so future man could find and use fossil fuels. lol
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oldcelt
Guest
Nor do I…unless this creator is like a child with a set of legos…destroying its creation because it had a better idea that might be more entertaining. I no longer believe in a personal God, because to rationalize the destruction of life is futile to me.
John
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fisherman_carl
Guest
God could only be a personal God to rational persons who can seek and contemplate him. He could not be a personal God to dinosaurs, rabbits and people who refuse to have anything to do with him. For they are more like the beasts who can not know God. God has given us an intellect so that we might know and love him. However, if we refuse such a gift we are more like the animals without any intellect running on pure instinct and senses.
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petra22
Guest
You don’t think the whole world was made for man? We are God’s darlings (though we don’t always act like it…) made in HIS image and likeness. Go and subdue… be good, be holy. Can other animals be good, be holy? Yes, just by doing what animals do but they don’t have the free will that God gave to us and the responsibility …
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petra22
Guest
hahahahaah! just something I read one time that stuck with me. Eskimo elders when they feel the end is near just slip out to the iceberg…Do you live in the North Pole? I would have to travel quite a ways from where I live to find an iceberg.
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Trident_H
Guest
I don’t know. I think God doesn’t look at life like we do. He’s infinite. Never has to die. So He gets to see the whole thing unfold.
I mean what if life’s like a steam powered electrical station? Something’s gotta burn to turn the turbine. The turbine’s gotta turn to generate the power. The power has to flow through the system to turn other parts and components before getting ‘spent’. Everything has to move and die to make other things move and die. Maybe God just likes building the Incredible Machine with a lot of complicated moving parts? I mean why not?
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oldcelt
Guest
I prefer to think of us functioning on reason and logic. Those attributes lead me to believe that we are, and always have been, on our own. That came after over 50 years of seeking and contemplating.
Might I have missed something…sure.
John
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oldcelt
Guest
I could almost agree with you were it not for the fact that many of those moving parts are sentient beings, capable of love for other creatures. I can’t bring myself to believe in a creator that would intentionally kill such creatures…especially children…just because it likes to build.
But, those are just my views and conclusions.
John
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Vivian42
Guest
Exactly.
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phil19034
Guest
Correct, man is not “entitled” to anything. However, nature is there for us, but we are supposed to be good stewards of God’s creation.
However, being good stewards of God’s creation doesn’t mean place plants and animals above baby humans.
Yes, we should not pollute and we should not be waistful and greedy when it comes to the natural resources God gave us.
But we also should not be using birth control, abortion, laws, etc to unnaturally keep the human population down. We don’t have a population problem. We simply do not properly manage our resources and food. And we allow thugs to keep food away from the poor.
But the planet is not overpopulated. We also have the technology to desalinate water from the oceans so everyone has enough water.
All of our problems are based on a lack of political / economic will; not because of the myth of “over population”
meltzerboy
New member
I think G-d wants us to use our intellect to ponder these questions, arrive at (tentative) conclusions, seek more understanding, arrive at other conclusions, and continue to seek and find. So don’t give up “seeking and contemplating.” If we are honest with ourselves, we all do so.
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Trident_H
Guest
What’s a sentient being to God? If you or I have no problem taking honey from bees I can’t see why God would have a big sweat over making his creation work for a short time on earth in order to get to a place of salvation later. I mean that’s where the pairing of hard work and reward come in. If there was no promise of heaven well Ok. I could see where you’re going with your thinking. But with an eternal reward on the table why wouldn’t God make it a struggle to get there? I mean what other meaning or purpose is there otherwise?
Or are we really all just here to enjoy hotdogs and beer? (I mean soda.
)Peace.
-Trident
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