Halloween?

[Kelfa28]

That does sound cute. We have twins who had furry lion and tiger suits for about four years running.

My husband’s cousin dressed her Irish twins up in a giraffe and dragon suits and sent me a super cute picture of her youngest in the giraffe costume sitting on his older brother, the dragon.

I’m just looking forward to a quiet night of handing out twix to the neighborhood kiddos and relaxing with my LO and my husband.

 

[pnewton]

That is an argument from silence. I do not think you need the Church to let you know that demonic influences in trick-or-treat and/or horror movies/haunted houses might not be a good thing for your children. The Church allows you to use a properly formed conscience.

As the Church is not silent about sin, as we have the best Catechism in the history of the Church at our disposal, the argument from silence is quite valid. There is no one here with the moral authority to call something sinful for another person apart from what we find in Catholic moral teaching. I do not think it right for anyone to question those who chose to obstain from Halloween based on their moral sense of right and wrong. However, the reverse is just as inappropriate.

 

[pnewton]

It is surely, dear friend, an act of fraternal love to warn and steer others away from what can be a potentially dangerous influence and a gateway into the world of darkness.

Then as the Catholic Church is our pillar of truth and instrument of God’s love in this world, I would expect to find the Church admonishing us on this topic, if it were truly dangerous.

 

[pnewton]

Happy Halloween from the USCCB!

blog.beliefnet.com/deaconsbench/files/import/assets_c/2010/10/184724239-thumb-425x284-18893.jpg

blog.beliefnet.com/deaconsbench/2010/10/happy-halloween-from-the-usccb.html

 

[EasterJoy]

Dear EasterJoy,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Thankyou for your response.

It is surely, dear friend, an act of fraternal love to warn and steer others away from what can be a potentially dangerous influence and a gateway into the world of darkness. Given that we are witnessing today an alarming increase in occultic activity world-wide, it seems perfectly correct and necessary to denounce modern Halloween celebrations with their indisputable link with the occultic subcultures. We ought to give a wide-berth to that which is undeniably unwholesome and which the primary foucus is terror, fear and death.

Refraining from giving gifts in case it encourages a materialistic outlook, is, dear friend, hardly on all fours with potentially becoming involved with the occultic subcultures. Since real world occult activities are condemned by the Church absolutely, it makes sense that the faithful would wish to avoid anything that is even remotely connected with that world. Moreover, if we are pursuing holiness in the fear of God, then we will surely feel most uncomfortable and ill-at-ease around anything that even has a whiff of the occult or macarbe horror themes.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

Oy vey. We ought to worry about demons that are not being conjured up, while ignoring capital sins right in front of us? No, the two aren’t on all fours at all…the greed surrounding the pressure to buy buy buy and gimme gimme gimme while totally ignoring religious observance of the Solemnity of the Nativity is far more prevalent!

You find me one actual person for whom Halloween–celebrated as anyone I know celebrates it, and I’ll throw in horror films–was a gateway to the occult, and I’ll find you a thousand who found the prevailing culture of gift-giving was a gateway to materialism and greed. You say we are experiencing “alarming increase in occultic activity”…you don’t think the increase in tolerance for the normal old capital sins that we’ve been warned against for thousands of years isn’t far more alarming?

There are aspects of many things that require vigilance, and Halloween has that. No one is arguing that. We are only saying that forbidding the celebration entirely is alarmist, that it is forbidding what is harmless while ignoring things that are in fact harmful, and throwing the baby out of the bathwater.

But enough on that. Respond what you will, I’m done with that point. Neither of us is preaching anything that is getting farther than the choir.

 

[Portrait]

As the Church is not silent about sin, as we have the best Catechism in the history of the Church at our disposal, the argument from silence is quite valid. There is no one here with the moral authority to call something sinful for another person apart from what we find in Catholic moral teaching. I do not think it right for anyone to question those who chose to obstain from Halloween based on their moral sense of right and wrong. However, the reverse is just as inappropriate.

Dear pnewton,

Hello again.

Mickey is quite correct, dear friend, the Church expects the faithful to have a well-formed conscience so that they will not make catastophic errors of prudential judgment as regards matters in which she has not declared her mind. To always demand official magisterial pronouncments upon every single issue is just not the way Catholics approach things. This is more akin to a Protestant Evangelicalism, which is always demanding biblical warrant in support of every claim made.

Certainly Holy Mother Church declares universally valid absolutes that do not admit exception, such as its unequivocal condemnation of homosexual acts of depravity and pornography. However, it has not, for example, pronounced upon the use of profanity, yet very few pious Catholics would be found defending the use of four-letter words, which would be considered not to comport with Christian standards of language. Thus, dear friend, the moral sense of the faithful has always considered bad language to be vulgar, impolite and unbefitting those who profess the holy religion of Christ. Notwithstanding that the Church has not specifically addressed the issue of bad language, its use has always been regarded as wrong and unacceptable. Similarly, we do not require a Catechism citation to specifically denounce the neo-pagan celebration of Halloween and its occultic associations. A well-formed conscience should tell us that its macarbe character is unwholesome, having connections with the occultic subcultures and therefore ought be avoided by those who profess to be the sons of light.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[pnewton]

Mickey is quite correct, dear friend, the Church expects the faithful to have a well-formed conscience so that they will not make catastophic errors of prudential judgment as regards matters in which she has not declared her mind. To always demand official magisterial pronouncments upon every single issue is just not the way Catholics approach things. This is more akin to a Protestant Evangelicalism, which is always demanding biblical warrant in support of every claim made.

See, I would say just the opposite, that your position is more akin to Protestan Evangelicalism because it is an example of the individual deciding for themself as their own magisterium what is right and wrong, and then taking the extra step of preaching it as if it were truth.

If it were a matter of a well formed conscience, then we would all agree. As it is, I have no problem with the whole trick or treat Halloween scene, as do many others here. Surely we do not judge how well someone has developed their conscience based on how much they agree with use. The last thing we want to do is usurp the Judgment Throne of Christ.

 

[johnnyjones]

Dear pnewton,

Hello again.

Mickey is quite correct, dear friend, the Church expects the faithful to have a well-formed conscience so that they will not make catastophic errors of prudential judgment as regards matters in which she has not declared her mind. To always demand official magisterial pronouncments upon every single issue is just not the way Catholics approach things. This is more akin to a Protestant Evangelicalism, which is always demanding biblical warrant in support of every claim made.

Certainly Holy Mother Church declares universally valid absolutes that do not admit exception, such as its unequivocal condemnation of homosexual acts of depravity and pornography. However, it has not, for example, pronounced upon the use of profanity, yet very few pious Catholics would be found defending the use of four-letter words, which would be considered not to comport with Christian standards of language. Thus, dear friend, the moral sense of the faithful has always considered bad language to be vulgar, impolite and unbefitting those who profess the holy religion of Christ. Notwithstanding that the Church has not specifically addressed the issue of bad language, its use has always been regarded as wrong and unacceptable. Similarly, we do not require a Catechism citation to specifically denounce the neo-pagan celebration of Halloween and its occultic associations. A well-formed conscience should tell us that its macarbe character is unwholesome, having connections with the occultic subcultures and therefore ought be avoided by those who profess to be the sons of light.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

My friend we have long agreed on many a topic but in this case I we do have a different outlook on the subject of Halloween. The meaning one pours into the day has a great bearing on the matter. The Christmas tree which is a standard of the season has roots in paganism as the Druid Priests of Great Britain often used the tree in non Christian ceremonies. Other examples could be given. Halloween most certainly has strange roots but some of the customs are actually derived from Catholicism itself.

I would never recommend diving into the darkness of the day that some do. As I have stated symbols, even skeletons and the like reflect upon our humanity and give pause to our mortality. Children and adults letting their hair down in pretend fashion is harmless and quite liberating from a psycological standpoint. I can not agree with you more about the evils of the occult but I do not see the average celebrant of Halloween embracing evil.

Many of our Christian holidays have pagan elements to them that we drowned out with common sense and wisdom. Halloween can be a day to share the benefits of the light of Christ as it often highlights the eerieness surrounding us. A see it as a possible tool for witnessesing not to mention being scared by things is a reminder to ultimately to stay in the light. Halloween presents contrast. But on a less theological level, it can just be a time to have fun. Peace my brother.

 

[Mickey]

The modern celebration of Halloween promotes the culture of death and attacks sacred and spiritual values through a devious initiation to the images and art of the occult. As it is celebrated today in our neo-pagan culture, dear friend, it would be rather naive to casually dismiss it as a bit of innocent harmless fun.

Exactly!

 

[Mickey]

Moreover, if we are pursuing holiness in the fear of God, then we will surely feel most uncomfortable and ill-at-ease around anything that even has a whiff of the occult or macarbe horror themes.

Yes. And one need only look around during the month of October to see the truth in these words.

 

[Mickey]

I do not think it right for anyone to question those who chose to obstain from Halloween based on their moral sense of right and wrong. However, the reverse is just as inappropriate.

I can certainly encourage abstaining from halloween celebration…but I cannot encourage the reverse. However, I think that Rome made one very important point when She was silent after the words of Fr Canals…it spoke volumes.

 

[Mickey]

There are aspects of many things that require vigilance, and Halloween has that.

How very true.

“Abstain from all appearance of evil”
1 Thessalonians 5:22

 

[Mickey]

See, I would say just the opposite, that your position is more akin to Protestan Evangelicalism because it is an example of the individual deciding for themself as their own magisterium what is right and wrong, and then taking the extra step of preaching it as if it were truth.

No, no, no…Rome is not some dictatorial organization that declares the definition of every sin…of every morally acceptable and unacceptable issue known to mankind. Rome certainly allows you to think for yourself using a properly formed conscience.

 

[Mickey]

Children and adults letting their hair down in pretend fashion is harmless and quite liberating from a psycological standpoint.

Letting their hair down? Explain.

Halloween can be a day to share the benefits of the light of Christ as it often highlights the eerieness surrounding us.

This is abslotutely non-patristic. The fathers and saints of the Church never taught about “highlighting eeriness.”

being scared by things is a reminder to ultimately to stay in the light.

Also not patristic.

Being scared by occultic images does nothing but desensitize people to occultic images. If we want to stay in the light, we pray, repent, confess our sins, receive the Eucharist, feed the poor, visit the incarcerated, etc. etc.

 

[johnnyjones]

Letting their hair down? Explain.

This is abslotutely non-patristic. The fathers and saints of the Church never taught about “highlighting eeriness.”
Also not patristic.

Being scared by occultic images does nothing but desensitize people to occultic images. If we want to stay in the light, we pray, repent, confess our sins, receive the Eucharist, feed the poor, visit the incarcerated, etc. etc.

You read my posts with your bias at full blinding strength. Halloween highlights eerieness with goofy fun, unless you beleive everyone is sitting at a Ouji board or chanting to the devil, it can give the opportunity to highlight Christ in contrast if your so inclined. Throw your Christmas tree out while your at it along with multiple other pagan trappings that surround certain Christian holidays.

If your so tighly wound that you can’t comprehend the old expression of letting ones hair down with fun that is not done on an everyday basis, your on your own. You write as if bodies are being sacrificed on street corners.You reject the clear expalin-
ation of a Catholic apologist on this site along with othe postings that dispel your view.

Do what you will with Halloween but don’t act as if all catholics and religious hold a view equal to yours. They don’t ,and apparently that is more than difficult for you to accept.

 

[Mickey]

You read my posts with your bias at full blinding strength. .

Sticks and stones.

Halloween highlights eerieness with goofy fun…

You call it “goofy fun”…I call it macabre occultic images and messages.

If your so tighly wound…

More sticks and stones.

 

[Baelor]

wherein the occultic themes are more accentuated than the Christian aspect.

Could you explain to me where this happens? I only see young children in dress-up getting candy.

Moreover, Halloween today is really a neo-pagan celebration of death and the occult on the eve of a day that is purportedly for honouring the sanctity of those whose bodies may sleep, but who’s souls are fully alive in Christ.

Where is this happening? What concrete forms does this take?

To always demand official magisterial pronouncments upon every single issue is just not the way Catholics approach things.

Actually, it is. The Church would certainly not hold anyone to a “hidden” moral absolute that has not been taught.

it has not, for example, pronounced upon the use of profanity, yet very few pious Catholics would be found defending the use of four-letter words, which would be considered not to comport with Christian standards of language.

The fact that it has not pronounced them, given there existence since before the Church’s inception, should be a clear indication that is does not condemn them absolutely, but clearly, not all of us are capable of rational thought or possess the requisite historical and theological knowledge to understand this.

Similarly, we do not require a Catechism citation to specifically denounce the neo-pagan celebration of Halloween and its occultic associations. A well-formed conscience should tell us that its macarbe character is unwholesome,

“Macabre” is not “unwholesome” by any Catholic teaching or any well-formed conscience.

I can certainly encourage abstaining from halloween celebration…but I cannot encourage the reverse.

You can encourage the reverse, you just choose not to.

 

[Portrait]

No, no, no…Rome is not some dictatorial organization that declares the definition of every sin…of every morally acceptable and unacceptable issue known to mankind. Rome certainly allows you to think for yourself using a properly formed conscience.

Dear Mickey,

Cordial greetings and may I just say that your remarks above are bang on target.

As you say, dear friend, the Church does not officially pronounce upon every single sin and, indeed, has never done so. In many cases the faithful must arrive at a decision based upon their prudential judgment, which will, hopefully, itself be the fruit of a well-formed conscience. It is silly to deny this as we almost do it by default. For example, take this issue of profanity, the Church has nowhere officially declared her mind upon this and yet no Catholic worth their salt would wish to argue that bad language is morally permissible. They instinctively know that swearing does not comport with the standard of Christian language. The same could be said of listening to debased sensory material such as rock/pop music or culturally unwholesome literature. It is a very Fundamentalist sort of mindset that demands official condemnations of such things, be it in the *Catechism of the Catholic Church *or magisterial teaching. As we advance in sanctity and separation from the godless world our conscience ought to correctly inform us about such things, provided, of course, it is properly formed and not radically defective as a consequence of desensitization to what is wrong and sinful. Moreover, there will be uniformity among the faithful if they progessing in true holiness and especially if they are humbly looking to the collective wisdom of the past for enlightenment and spiritual direction.

The problem today, dear friend, is that many contemporary Christians, are so conformed to the godless world that they are desensitized to that which is morally unhealthy. Alas, their spiritual sensibilities have become dulled and blunted and this causes them to err with respect to their decision making on a whole range of matters. Fifty years ago, I doubt very much that you would have to convince your fellow Catholics that Halloween, as it is now celebrated, is unwholesome in its focus upon occultic and horror themes. That would have been apparent and its celebration would have been deemed unworthy of those who profess Christ’s religion.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[johnnyjones]

Sticks and stones.
You call it “goofy fun”…I call it macabre occultic images and messages.
More sticks and stones.

What do you call your pagan Christmas tree, evil? I think it is beautiful. I would assume you use money with it’s pagan pyramide symbol on it. Do you celebrate the occult images depicted on US money YOU use? Maybe you don’t live in the US, but you get the point.

Separation of images, symbols, roots and people. You can act on paganism by turning that Christmas tree into it’s Druid past or fall athe feet of occult money. But your able to separate, as most do. Halloween is no different.

 

[Mickey]

Halloween is no different.

Halloween celebrates occultic images of witches, ghouls, demons, blood and gore, and all types of occultic demonic images. It desensitizes the children to this.