Halloween?

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Portrait said:
The problem today, dear friend, is that many contemporary Christians, are so conformed to the godless world that they are desensitized to that which is morally unhealthy.
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Indeed.
Portrait said:
Fifty years ago, I doubt very much that you would have to convince your fellow Catholics that Halloween, as it is now celebrated, is unwholesome in its focus upon occultic and horror themes. That would have been apparent and its celebration would have been deemed unworthy of those who profess Christ’s religion.
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Yes…it is a very sad state of affairs.
 
Mickey said:
No, no, no…Rome is not some dictatorial organization that declares the definition of every sin…of every morally acceptable and unacceptable issue known to mankind. Rome certainly allows you to think for yourself using a properly formed conscience.
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I guess we haven’t read the same Catechism. There are a boatload of sins enumerated and defined. Also, if one follows the USCCB, they are quite outspoken on specifics that apply strictly to America. Oh well, my conscience is clean on the subject. To each their own.
 
pnewton said:
I guess we haven’t read the same Catechism.
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1776 “Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself but which he must obey. Its voice, ever calling him to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, sounds in his heart at the right moment. . . . For man has in his heart a law inscribed by God. . . . His conscience is man’s most secret core and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths.”
1777 Moral conscience, present at the heart of the person, enjoins him at the appropriate moment to do good and to avoid evil. It also judges particular choices, approving those that are good and denouncing those that are evil.49 It bears witness to the authority of truth in reference to the supreme Good to which the human person is drawn, and it welcomes the commandments. When he listens to his conscience, the prudent man can hear God speaking.
1778 Conscience is a judgment of reason whereby the human person recognizes the moral quality of a concrete act that he is going to perform, is in the process of performing, or has already completed. In all he says and does, man is obliged to follow faithfully what he knows to be just and right. It is by the judgment of his conscience that man perceives and recognizes the prescriptions of the divine law:
 
Mickey said:
1776 "… In all he says and does, man is obliged to follow faithfully what he knows to be just and right. It is by the judgment of his conscience that man perceives and recognizes the prescriptions of the divine law:
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???:confused:

Uh… John 3:16?

Perhaps you are saying that we shouldn’t be trying to be the conscience for others? Or as I said, to each their own.
 
johnnyjones said:
What do you call your pagan Christmas tree, evil?
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My Nativity Tree is decorated with blessed Icons. The star at the top is a reminder of the star of Bethlehem. The tree itself is a reminder of the tree of life.

Now…can you explain again how children dressing up as ghoulish demons, monsters, vampires, witches, and all sorts of other occultic costumes…or children mingling with those who are dressed like this…or visiting houses that resemble the gateway to hell…or all the other demonic and occultic imagery of halloween…is good and holy?

I must have missed that part. :confused:
 
Mickey said:
Halloween celebrates occultic images of witches, ghouls, demons, blood and gore, and all types of occultic demonic images. It desensitizes the children to this.
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I guess a Catholic apologist just can’t see any of this. Children are desensitized by many things in the culture, pictures of a witch or skeleton are the least of it.

I am opposed to graphic slasher films which play not only at Halloween.
 
Mickey said:
My Nativity Tree is decorated with blessed Icons. The star at the top is a reminder of the star of Bethlehem. The tree itself is a reminder of the tree of life.

Now…can you explain again how children dressing up as ghoulish demons, monsters, vampires, witches, and all sorts of other occultic costumes…or children mingling with those who are dressed like this…or visiting houses that resemble the gateway to hell…or all the other demonic and occultic imagery of halloween…is good and holy?

I must have missed that part. :confused:
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Oh, you put your own spin on what the Christmas tree should be, why did you do that? That is not how the early pagans saw the tree. You took something and gave it a different meaning. Gateways to Hell and scary monsters are not bowed down to as holy relics. They represent what you should run from.

Your picking words from my posts that you can answer with sound bits but jumping over what you don’t want to deal with.
 
Mickey said:
The grotesque halloween images are a big part of it.
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A BIG part of it…once a year? Desensitizing occurs once a year, but the reality of broken homes and abuse aren’t real enough desensitizers to the horrors of actual life?
 
Portrait said:
As you say, dear friend, the Church does not officially pronounce upon every single sin and, indeed, has never done so.
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It pronounces on absolute sins and has done so since the benning.
In many cases the faithful must arrive at a decision based upon their prudential judgment, which will, hopefully, itself be the fruit of a well-formed conscience.
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These are the cases that do not have moral absolutes, i.e. what is correct for one may not necessarily be correct for another.

For example, someone who has a shoe fetish ought not to linger near a shoe store. That does not apply to most of the population.
For example, take this issue of profanity, the Church has nowhere officially declared her mind upon this and yet no Catholic worth their salt would wish to argue that bad language is morally permissible.
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I am a Catholic who has a well-formed conscience, and it tells me that profanity is not sinful in every case.

Before you respond, please take the time to make sure you avoid a particular logical fallacy…
It is a very Fundamentalist sort of mindset that demands official condemnations of such things, be it in the *Catechism of the Catholic Church *or magisterial teaching.
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Then I suppose Catholicism is a fundamentalist religion, as the Church officially condemns all sorts of perfectly obvious sins.
Mickey said:
Halloween celebrates occultic images of witches, ghouls, demons, blood and gore, and all types of occultic demonic images. It desensitizes the children to this.
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No, it does not. It celebrates children playing dress-up and getting candy. No one is forcing children to dress up as witches and the like. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that a child dressed up like a demon actually believes that he is a demon, so I fail to see the problem.
Mickey said:
God forbid. Each man is responsible (by the grace of God) to strive for a properly formed conscience.
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Which the Church acknowledges will lead different individuals to different decisions.
 
Mickey said:
Amen…and1 Thessalonians 5:22
God forbid. Each man is responsible (by the grace of God) to strive for a properly formed conscience.
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Then why are you and Portrait telling others what their properly formed conscience should be telling them? It was one think when speaking for youself, but now it has crossed over into telling others.
 
pnewton said:
Then why are you and Portrait telling others what their properly formed conscience should be telling them? It was one think when speaking for youself, but now it has crossed over into telling others.
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Because there is a “hidden” moral absolute. In other words, Portrait and Mickey believe that all well-formed consciences will be in alignment on this matter, which the Catholic Church does not believe is the case.
 
johnnyjones said:
A BIG part of it…once a year? Desensitizing occurs once a year, but the reality of broken homes and abuse aren’t real enough desensitizers to the horrors of actual life?
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This thread is about halloween. If you care to start other threads about different subjects…you may.
 
Baelor said:
It celebrates children playing dress-up and getting candy.
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Many of them dressed up in ghoulish and demonic figures.
Baelor said:
No one is forcing children to dress up as witches and the like.
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Of course not.
Baelor said:
Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that a child dressed up like a demon actually believes that he is a demon, so I fail to see the problem.
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“Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walketh about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour” (1 Peter 5:8).
 
pnewton said:
Then why are you and Portrait telling others what their properly formed conscience should be telling them?
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I am saying that a properly formed conscience is opposed to demonic and occultic celebrations. I believe that halloween has morphed into a month-long observation of demonic images, occultic behaviors, and the desensitization of evil. I am not saying that your conscience is properly formed or not…I do not know you.
 
Mickey said:
My own spin? For shame.
And run you should.
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The thing you don’t get or refuse to touch on is that the Christmas tree stems from Pagan customs. You choose to embrace that practice which stems from Pagan (Druid) origins, yet you condemn Halloween for it’s “occultic” ties. That seems a little hypocritical to me. Either you cut off all ties to the Pagan/Occult or you realize that some, yes some pagan customs are not evil if you use them correctly. Like the Christmas tree. Doesn’t matter if you cover it with saints, it still comes from a Pagan tradition according to your own arguments.
 
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