Halloween?

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I prefer to celebrate the Mexican Days of the Dead . My mom cooks up all these delicious Mexican dishes and we make a shrine for the dead called an ofrenda. We light candles and burn incense. It is a time for remembering the ancestors and praying for the souls of those in purgatory. Every region in Mexico has their own traditions during Day of the Dead but they all offer up food for the dead.
**A very gorgeous ofrenda in Michoacán.
**http://farm1.staticflickr.com/110/291155251_ba039c0a8c_z.jpg?zz=1
**An ofrenda in Morelos.
**http://farm1.staticflickr.com/113/286541265_df419c9d2f_z.jpg

**An ofrenda in Oaxaca
**http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2412/2047817073_cd0f7554d7_z.jpg?zz=1
 
Those are amazing! Does all the food get eaten after the prayers are said?

From my brief time visiting part of my family in Mexico as a child, I do remember visits to decorate and tend the family graves, and a big dinner with lots of sweets. Since it felt like we went to Mass every day 😃 I can’t remember if there was a special Mass for Dia de los Muertos or not.
 
Dear CatholicLife–

Thank you for sharing your pictures; they are beautiful!

Jala
 
Those are amazing! Does all the food get eaten after the prayers are said?

From my brief time visiting part of my family in Mexico as a child, I do remember visits to decorate and tend the family graves, and a big dinner with lots of sweets. Since it felt like we went to Mass every day 😃 I can’t remember if there was a special Mass for Dia de los Muertos or not.
Yes all the food gets eaten and in some regions some is given to the poor. I love Dia de los Muertos and I try to teach my younger cousins about it.
 
Of course some Christians don’t see a fun side to Halloween, that is not in dispute.
You implied that they were fundamentalists.
and I would say the preponderance are ok with Halloween and it’s traditions.
Majority don’t make it right. 😃
I do not believe that those who are anti Halloween are all Fundamentalists.
Thank you.
They are the meaning you pour into it.
That is relativism.
I am not aware of any prohibitions from the church regarding Halloween.
Perhaps they feel we should know better? Somehow I can’t see Pope Benedict celebrating or condoning halloween. 🤷
 
The skeletons are not a mocking of the Church’s holy relics.
St Nikolai Velimirovic is one of my favorite Orthodox saints. I have his Icon and I venerate him often. He says this regarding halloween:
"Costumes of skeletons, for example, developed as a mockery of
the Church’s reverence for holy relics."
I know he is not a Roman Catholic saint…but I will err on the side of the saint. 😉
Also, not everything that some Western Christians do has the blessings fo the Church. Ouija boards and seances, for instance, or any divination, attempts at magical manipulation by attempting to direct supernatural forces, or conjuring of spirits: all these are absolutely forbidden.
Yes. Participation in the occult is definitely forbidden. I believe that halloween falls into this category…especially the witches, ghouls, ghosts and other demonic costumes that are popular at this time.
As you so rightly point out, sometimes when the hair stands up on your neck, that ought to tell you something!!.
Indeed! ”Abstain from all appearance of evil” [1 Thessalonians 5:22].
The Orthodox are nothing like that, but rather are more restrictive of what they allow into their tradition.
This is true.
As a result, Eastern traditions are much more like what they were a thousand years ago, correct?
2000 years ago. 😉
 
St Nikolai Velimirovic is one of my favorite Orthodox saints. I have his Icon and I venerate him often. He says this regarding halloween:
"Costumes of skeletons, for example, developed as a mockery of
the Church’s reverence for holy relics."
I know he is not a Roman Catholic saint…but I will err on the side of the saint. 😉
Yes. Participation in the occult is definitely forbidden. I believe that halloween falls into this category…especially the witches, ghouls, ghosts and other demonic costumes that are popular at this time.
Indeed! ”Abstain from all appearance of evil” [1 Thessalonians 5:22].
This is true.
2000 years ago. 😉
Well, colored vestments didn’t come in quite right at the beginning. Up until the 4th century, white was it. I think they let St. John Chrystostom write a few prayers around that time. So change comes every 500 or 1000 years, whether it is needed or not. 😉 😃

But, to the original question: How much time did St. Nikolai spend in Ireland in the early 700s?

Costumes of skeletons will have meant different things in different places and times. It is entirely possible that everyone St. Nikolai ever saw dressed up as a skeleton was in fact doing it to mock the Church’s veneration of relics. He lived in times and in places where the Orthodox Church was subject to public attack. Skeletons can be innocent symbols, but that does not mean that skeletons cannot also be anti-religious symbols!

As illustration of this, the meaning of the skeletons employed for the Mexican Dia de los Muertos is entirely different from the skeletons used in typical American Halloween decorations. The Dia de losMuertos is not at all scary or spooky. Conversely, most Americans who put a skeleton up couldn’t tell you what a first degree relic is. If you told them they were mocking holy relics, they’d think you had lost your mind, because they would have meant no such thing. In America, part of Halloween is a confrontation with our fear of death, our fear of the dark, and our fear of people who dress in odd ways. (And wow, can America use that, because so much of the culture is* totally freaked out* when it comes to confronting death!!)

The experience of St. Nikolai, or indeed possibly of someone living in modern-day Serbia, for all I know, might have been different from either of these. In that place, dressing up like a skeleton might have been a favorite way to mock the Orthodox and their beliefs. Of course he would have taken it that way, even if others around him in the US thought it was “innocent”. He knew what it meant to him, and it would have been wrong to force him to go against it. If that what it means to you, it would be wrong to tell you to “lighten up” and go against that.

Perhaps I am biased, but I am much more sympathetic with the Eastern resistance to Halloween than the resistance that has more Puritan reasoning behind it. To avoid a festival because something specific about it to you has a meaning repugnant to the faith is one thing. To ask someone to go against that would be to ask them to go against conscience. For instance, you wouldn’t ask an American to burn their flag in the street, even if burning a country’s flag in the street was an act of reverence in your country. You could only require someone to act in such a way if it were a moral obligation that couldn’t be excused.

To be against all sensual expressions of faith–smells, colors, candlelight, the use of noble metals, and so on–that is just not in keeping with the understanding common to Christians for most of the history of Christendom. That is a reasoning I am far less inclined to allow as universal. That’s my bias, I guess.
 
You implied that they were fundamentalists.
Majority don’t make it right. 😃
Thank you.
That is relativism.
Perhaps they feel we should know better? Somehow I can’t see Pope Benedict celebrating or condoning halloween. 🤷
You are entitled to feel as you do about Halloween, you have NEVER been told by me that you can not feel that way. Do you feel the Catholic apologist on this site has a convoluted view of Halloween?

Accepting that a wide body of Catholics see Halloween and harmless was my only point. I must say I don’t know why you keep bringing up the Fundamentalist issue. I told you clearly I came from that and Halloween is greatly opposed by them. If other people like yourself align with that view, don’t get defensive for uncalled reasons. The fact is your thought process is similar to theirs with Halloween.
 
Well, colored vestments didn’t come in quite right at the beginning. Up until the 4th century, white was it. I think they let St. John Chrystostom write a few prayers around that time. So change comes every 500 or 1000 years, whether it is needed or not. 😉 😃

But, to the original question: How much time did St. Nikolai spend in Ireland in the early 700s?

Costumes of skeletons will have meant different things in different places and times. It is entirely possible that everyone St. Nikolai ever saw dressed up as a skeleton was in fact doing it to mock the Church’s veneration of relics. He lived in times and in places where the Orthodox Church was subject to public attack. Skeletons can be innocent symbols, but that does not mean that skeletons cannot also be anti-religious symbols!

As illustration of this, the meaning of the skeletons employed for the Mexican Dia de los Muertos is entirely different from the skeletons used in typical American Halloween decorations. The Dia de losMuertos is not at all scary or spooky. Conversely, most Americans who put a skeleton up couldn’t tell you what a first degree relic is. If you told them they were mocking holy relics, they’d think you had lost your mind, because they would have meant no such thing. In America, part of Halloween is a confrontation with our fear of death, our fear of the dark, and our fear of people who dress in odd ways. (And wow, can America use that, because so much of the culture is* totally freaked out* when it comes to confronting death!!)

The experience of St. Nikolai, or indeed possibly of someone living in modern-day Serbia, for all I know, might have been different from either of these. In that place, dressing up like a skeleton might have been a favorite way to mock the Orthodox and their beliefs. Of course he would have taken it that way, even if others around him in the US thought it was “innocent”. He knew what it meant to him, and it would have been wrong to force him to go against it. If that what it means to you, it would be wrong to tell you to “lighten up” and go against that.

Perhaps I am biased, but I am much more sympathetic with the Eastern resistance to Halloween than the resistance that has more Puritan reasoning behind it. To avoid a festival because something specific about it to you has a meaning repugnant to the faith is one thing. To ask someone to go against that would be to ask them to go against conscience. For instance, you wouldn’t ask an American to burn their flag in the street, even if burning a country’s flag in the street was an act of reverence in your country. You could only require someone to act in such a way if it were a moral obligation that couldn’t be excused.

To be against all sensual expressions of faith–smells, colors, candlelight, the use of noble metals, and so on–that is just not in keeping with the understanding common to Christians for most of the history of Christendom. That is a reasoning I am far less inclined to allow as universal. That’s my bias, I guess.
👍👍
Well stated. I commented in a similar way (responding to you) a few posts back.
 
Well, colored vestments didn’t come in quite right at the beginning.
The preferred color for celebrants was white as a symbol of that holiness and purity which the Lord commanded; “Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness” (Ps. 132:9).
But, to the original question: How much time did St. Nikolai spend in Ireland in the early 700s?
He was not alive at this time.
Costumes of skeletons will have meant different things in different places and times.
And if they were used to mock our holy relics…I will believe St Nikolai. I have also heard that the candle in the gord (or jack-o-lantern) was used to mock the lampadas that hang in front of the holy Icons.
Skeletons can be innocent symbols, but that does not mean that skeletons cannot also be anti-religious symbols!
Yes.

Abstain from all appearance of evil [1 Thessalonians 5:22].

The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Romans 13:12
Conversely, most Americans who put a skeleton up couldn’t tell you what a first degree relic is.
I’m sure you are correct. I am not responsible for the thinking of “most Americans”. I must answer to my own conscience.
If you told them they were mocking holy relics, they’d think you had lost your mind,
Probably.
In America, part of Halloween is a confrontation with our fear of death,
If I asked “most Americans” for an explanation of halloween…I am certain that they would not say “a confrontation with our fear of death.” 🤷
For instance, you wouldn’t ask an American to burn their flag in the street, even if burning a country’s flag in the street was an act of reverence in your country.
I am not sure why you used this analogy.

All I know is that many Orthodox hierarchs, and even saints, have taught that we are to have no part in halloween. During my time in the Latin and Eastern Catholic Church…I was told the same thing by various priests…especially monks.

I am well aware of the love affair (and big business) that America has with halloween. And I have heard every justification imaginable (the most popular one is “it’s harmless fun”). And yes…I have even heard some of those justications from clergy (albeit not many). For me…there is one truth. We Orthodox are not really the compromising type. 😃

And yes…I will have to stay true to my conscience on this one…and follow the lead of those clergy and hierarchs who have directed me on this issue over the years. I am happy that you understand.

It is clear that we, as Orthodox Christians, cannot participate in this event (Halloween) at any level (even if we only label it as “fun”), and that our involvement in it is an idolatrous betrayal of our God and our Holy Faith.
St Nikolai Velimirovic
 
You are entitled to feel as you do about Halloween,
Thank you.
Do you feel the Catholic apologist on this site has a convoluted view of Halloween?
I do not know. I have met many solid Catholics on this forum who feel exactly as I do.
I told you clearly I came from that and Halloween is greatly opposed by them.
I must say…I respect them for their conviction on this issue.
If other people like yourself align with that view, don’t get defensive for uncalled reasons.
Fundamentalist is not a bad word…but some people like to throw it around like an insult.😦
 
The preferred color for celebrants was white as a symbol of that holiness and purity which the Lord commanded; “Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness” (Ps. 132:9).
He was not alive at this time.

And if they were used to mock our holy relics…I will believe St Nikolai. I have also heard that the candle in the gord (or jack-o-lantern) was used to mock the lampadas that hang in front of the holy Icons.
Yes.

Abstain from all appearance of evil [1 Thessalonians 5:22].

The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
Romans 13:12
I’m sure you are correct. I am not responsible for the thinking of “most Americans”. I must answer to my own conscience.
Probably.
If I asked “most Americans” for an explanation of halloween…I am certain that they would not say “a confrontation with our fear of death.” 🤷
I am not sure why you used this analogy.

All I know is that many Orthodox hierarchs, and even saints, have taught that we are to have no part in halloween. During my time in the Latin and Eastern Catholic Church…I was told the same thing by various priests…especially monks.

I am well aware of the love affair (and big business) that America has with halloween. And I have heard every justification imaginable (the most popular one is “it’s harmless fun”). And yes…I have even heard some of those justications from clergy (albeit not many). For me…there is one truth. We Orthodox are not really the compromising type. 😃

And yes…I will have to stay true to my conscience on this one…and follow the lead of those clergy and hierarchs who have directed me on this issue over the years. I am happy that you understand.

It is clear that we, as Orthodox Christians, cannot participate in this event (Halloween) at any level (even if we only label it as “fun”), and that our involvement in it is an idolatrous betrayal of our God and our Holy Faith.
St Nikolai Velimirovic
Halloween is definitely a festival where people make fun of their fears (or make fun of other people’s fears!), the fear of death among them. They might not articulate it quite that way, but if you listen to what they’re trying to accomplish, that’s pretty much it.

I know respect that you’re going to listen to St. Nikolai, but from my perspective, he wasn’t a scholar of Celtic history. He was a great scholar, but I doubt very much that he troubled himself with that. That is OK. I’m not going to get on board with his characterization of the festival as idolotry. I know what I mean when we celebrate Halloween, and it is not idolotry. He had legitimate authority in the Orthodox Church, but in the West our pastors have said otherwise…We are kind of fond, for instance, of St. Gregory the Great, who is the direct source of our permission for the preservation of Celtic customs.
 
Halloween is definitely a festival where people make fun of their fears (or make fun of other people’s fears!), the fear of death among them.
I don’t think so.

The holy Fathers have taught a concept called “remembrance of death” for many centuries. They tell us that this should be on our minds unceasingly to remind us that our time here is very limited. It also reminds us that we must repent continually and partake in the Mystery of holy Confession as often as possible. Remembrance of death can bring deep sorrow and contrition. We remember death by knowing that all who came before us…and all who come after us…. have reposed. We remember death by knowing that our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was crucified……and because of his sacrifice……we can have eternal life.

But I certainly don’t recall any of our fathers in the faith talking about looking upon demons, ghouls, witches, goblins, and skeletons, etc…so that we can think of death and be afraid…or to mock other people’s fears. That does not sound patristic.

St Anthony and many other saints used to physically battle the demons….and St Anthony was almost beaten to death….but that’s another story.
I know respect that you’re going to listen to St. Nikolai, but from my perspective, he wasn’t a scholar of Celtic history. He was a great scholar, but I doubt very much that he troubled himself with that.
He was a great scholar in many areas.
I’m not going to get on board with his characterization of the festival as idolotry.
You have free will. I don’t expect you to “get on board.”
He had legitimate authority in the Orthodox Church, but in the West our pastors have said otherwise…
And I have heard similar words (to St Nikolai’s) from priests and monks in the West.
for instance, of St. Gregory the Great, who is the direct source of our permission for the preservation of Celtic customs.
Including pagan halloween celebrations?
 
I don’t think so.

The holy Fathers have taught a concept called “remembrance of death” for many centuries. They tell us that this should be on our minds unceasingly to remind us that our time here is very limited. It also reminds us that we must repent continually and partake in the Mystery of holy Confession as often as possible. Remembrance of death can bring deep sorrow and contrition. We remember death by knowing that all who came before us…and all who come after us…. have reposed. We remember death by knowing that our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was crucified……and because of his sacrifice……we can have eternal life.

But I certainly don’t recall any of our fathers in the faith talking about looking upon demons, ghouls, witches, goblins, and skeletons, etc…so that we can think of death and be afraid…or to mock other people’s fears. That does not sound patristic.

St Anthony and many other saints used to physically battle the demons….and St Anthony was almost beaten to death….but that’s another story.
He was a great scholar in many areas.You have free will. I don’t expect you to “get on board.”
And I have heard similar words (to St Nikolai’s) from priests and monks in the West.
Including pagan halloween celebrations?
Halloween is not a pagan celebration, any more than having a Christmas tree is idolatry or reciting the rosary is idolatry or watching football on Sundays is idolatry. That people try to make it out to be that does not make it so. If they don’t want to participate, they’re free to suit themselves, if it means something different to them than it does to me, that does not upset me, but if anyone tries to tell me I’m fraternizing with demons and false gods when I’m doing no such thing, I’m not going to sit still for it, because it is not the truth. It is a false accusation.

I’m going to carve faces in some pumpkins and light them with candles, to attract the local kids who have fun disguising themselves and braving the dark and the other oddly-dressed folks roaming for the sake of some free candy, I’m going to watch “It’s the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown”–without any fear at all of falling into Linus’ false religion!–I’ll probably put on my black Kinsale cape and the black veil that obscures my face, just to make it more fun for the trick-or-treaters, and I’m going to hope they leave me some Almond Joys and Reser’s Peanut Butter cups, but not too many. The greatest peril to my soul in the whole night is going to be the near occasion of sin in that big candy bowl, and that’s probably the greatest spiritual peril I’m going to pose to those kids, too.

If we’re in agreement on that, then I think we agree. If not, oh well. We at least understand each other a little better.
 
Halloween is not a pagan celebration
If someone celebrates All Saints and All Souls Day as their celebration…I can see that. However, the halloween we are discussing is purely a secular and pagan happening. As one Russian Orthodox priest said to me: “Halloween is an American abomination.”
If they don’t want to participate, they’re free to suit themselves, if it means something different to them than it does to me, that does not upset me, but if anyone tries to tell me I’m fraternizing with demons and false gods when I’m doing no such thing, I’m not going to sit still for it, because it is not the truth. It is a false accusation.
I have told you how I feel about this day many times. I believe it is demonic. I am not telling you what to believe or what to celebrate. Let your conscience be your guide.
I’m going to carve faces in some pumpkins and light them with candles, to attract the local kids who have fun disguising themselves and braving the dark and the other oddly-dressed folks roaming for the sake of some free candy,
That is your choice.
I’ll probably put on my black Kinsale cape and the black veil that obscures my face, just to make it more fun for the trick-or-treaters,
That is your choice.
The greatest peril to my soul in the whole night is going to be the near occasion of sin in that big candy bowl, and that’s probably the greatest spiritual peril I’m going to pose to those kids, too.
Of course I believe there is much greater peril to my own soul if I were to participate in such an endeavor.

I believe that evil should not be depicted as if it were friendly or harmless. It is not a good thing for children to learn. And if our children dress up as something benign, they are still in an atmosphere of the occult symbols that are so prevalent during halloween…which lends support to the whole thing. We may believe that we “mean no harm” by participating in halloween, but uncritical behavior regarding invisible realities ( that we don’t understand), often invites demonic activity.

I believe that we should not risk letting demons into our lives.

Are we absolutely sure that halloween is simply “harmless fun?”

"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few (Matthew 7:13-14).
 
If someone celebrates All Saints and All Souls Day as their celebration…I can see that. However, the halloween we are discussing is purely a secular and pagan happening. As one Russian Orthodox priest said to me: “Halloween is an American abomination.”
I have told you how I feel about this day many times. I believe it is demonic. I am not telling you what to believe or what to celebrate. Let your conscience be your guide.
That is your choice.
That is your choice.
Of course I believe there is much greater peril to my own soul if I were to participate in such an endeavor.

I believe that evil should not be depicted as if it were friendly or harmless. It is not a good thing for children to learn. And if our children dress up as something benign, they are still in an atmosphere of the occult symbols that are so prevalent during halloween…which lends support to the whole thing. We may believe that we “mean no harm” by participating in halloween, but uncritical behavior regarding invisible realities ( that we don’t understand), often invites demonic activity.

I believe that we should not risk letting demons into our lives.

Are we absolutely sure that halloween is simply “harmless fun?”

"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few (Matthew 7:13-14).
Yes, the way we celebrate it here, it is harmless. If I weren’t sure, we wouldn’t do it. As I’ve noted already, there are certainly Halloween celebrations and much else in popular culture that we do not have anything to do with. I’m not going to advocate for any redeeming features in Halloween, though, because none of it was invented before 400 AD, nor anywhere in the Greek-speaking world. I will say, though, that the gate to Heaven is not so narrow as those boundaries are. If I didn’t think so, I’d not only have to abandon Halloween. I’d have to abandon the whole Roman Church, too.

Also from Matthew 7: “Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.” Matt. 7:1-2 Are you sure your measure of the practices of others is not too stingy? Maybe, maybe not…but there, we both have something from the red letters to think about.

From It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown
Charlie Brown: *Who are you writing to, Linus? *
Linus: *This is the time of year to write to the Great Pumpkin. On Halloween night, the Great Pumpkin rises out of his pumpkin patch and flies through the air with his bag of toys for all the children! *
Charlie Brown: *You must be crazy. When are you going to stop believing in something that isn’t true? *
Linus: *When you stop believing in that fellow with a red suit and the white beard who goes, “Ho, ho, ho!” *
Charlie Brown: We’re obviously separated by denominational differences.
 
What are your favorite lines and scenes from Halloween cartoons?

Mine is Sally’s tirade, from It’s the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown:

You blockhead! You kept me up all night waiting for the Great Pumpkin,
and all that came was a beagle!
I didn’t get a chance to go out for tricks or treats.
And it was all your fault! I’ll sue! What a fool I was!
I could have had candy apples and gum and cookies and money and all sorts of things.
But no! I had to listen to you, you blockhead. What a fool I was.
Trick or treats come only once a year,
and I missed it by sitting in a pumpkin patch with a blockhead.
[shakes Linus violently by his shirt]
YOU OWE ME RESTITUTION!
 
Also from Matthew 7: “Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.” Matt. 7:1-2
Have I been judging you? I have certainly been discoursing about my take on halloween. As a matter of fact, I have been consistently saying that you have free will to practice in what your conscience dictates. However, there is such a thing as righteous judgement.

“Judge not according to the appearance, but judge just judgment.” John 7:24

“The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.”
(Psa. 37:30)

“Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the Lord, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the Lord God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.”
(Amos 5:14-15)

“Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?” (I Cor. 6:1-5)
 
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