Hand holding in the OF during the OF

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What has always bothered me about hand holding during the Our Father is that I don’t get the impression that very many Catholics who practice this have a clue as to why they are doing it. They do it because they see others do it. I believe many folks feel it is part of the rite, which it is not. I recently attended a talk on the new translation of the Mass, and during the Q &A period someone asked if it was true that with this new translation holding hands at this time would no longer be a part of the Mass. When the speaker replied “It never was”, people were incredulous. They assumed it was a requirement.

Personally, I find it distracting, especially when the person next to me is pawing it my hand when I am trying to focus. I have never been given a good reason as to why I should hold hands then, so I think I’ll wait until I have one before I start the practice.
 
TrueLight said:
Does anyone have any examples of organic changes that happened over the centuries and how they came about?
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I think that the kneeling during the Eucharistic prayer was an organic change. I mean I would expect that during the Last Supper, most of the Apostles were either sitting or reclining around the table, no?

More recent organic additions…
The crossing of the forehead, lips, and heart at the proclimation of the Gospel.
The sign of the cross.
Bowing to the alter in reverence.
Striking ones breast during the confietior.

Just some examples within the liturgy of the Mass.
 
What is hand holding?

I’m a relatively recent returning Catholic, after being away for about 40 years. During certain parts of mass, I’ve noticed a few people holding their hands out, palms upward. I don’t remember ever seeing that back in the “old” days. Is that what people mean by “hand holding”?

(Sorry for the OT question.)
 
YoungTradCath said:
I think the problem with hand holding and the orans position by laity in mass (which I will simply call “hand holding” all together in this post from now on) is that it resembles a common mega church-type Protestant practice.
This lends to the question: is it healthy to do something that is a very outward action when Protestants also do it, even if it has, so far at least, happened organically?
  1. It is not approved. It is not a recognized practice of the laity during mass. Furthermore, it obscures the role of the priest and laity. When the laity do something the priest does, it sends a bad message to, say, discerning converts. We need to preserve the outward distinction between clergy and laity.
  2. It is a “horizontal practice.” It does not add to the emphasis on God. While it does not detract explicitly from it, it does so implicitly.
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With regard to the first part of the quote: Sometimes those Protestant Christians have some really good ideas. I see no reason not to share in this practice. What on earth is unhealthy about holding hands.

With regard to the second part of the quote: I have a great deal of respect for the priesthood. I really do not see our priest as so weak, fragile and shallow that they cannot withstand hand holding in their congregation. In fact, it is more a testament to their effectiveness as priests when their congregation is willing to let go of some interpersonal boundaries in order to exhibit Christian love and sense of community.

With regard to the third part of the quote: See comment on priests above. God is even less weak and fragile. I suspect He does not mind at all when His children join together to express that great prayer and signal their unity by holding hands.

I will not allow anyone to tell me I cannot hold hands during Mass. I respect the wishes of others if they choose not to do so, but I WILL hold my husband’s hand and probably kiss him when we exchange peace until I die. .
 
Ohana said:
See comment on priests above. God is even less weak and fragile. I suspect He does not mind at all when His children join together to express that great prayer and signal their unity by holding hands.

I will not allow anyone to tell me I cannot hold hans during Mass. I respect the wishes of others if they choose not to do so, but I WILL hold my husbands hand and probably kiss him when we exchange peace.
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I suspect that we don’t actually know what God minds in this matter.

I respect the fact that you are married to a man. That is a great thing, truly. And I don’t see a problem with you holding his hand. But when arms are elevated in such a manner as to make it a public show, that is when it seems wrong.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
I know this is a separate issue, but is smiling quasi-liberal, too? Is all human contact, even outside of mass? I respect your right to view this as you want, but I just wonder sometimes whether traditional Catholics take stoicism to an unprecedented and frightening level.
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A frightening level?? LOL! I view most of the Catholics as reverent, myself! Why in the world would you be frightened of someone who is showing reverence to God? The whole point of going to Mass is to give thanks to God Almighty for sending His only son, Jesus to suffer and die for us. We receive His Body and Blood. Reverence is the posture. This is not a social outing.
 
VeritasLuxMea said:
I know this is a separate issue, but is smiling quasi-liberal, too? Is all human contact, even outside of mass? I respect your right to view this as you want, but I just wonder sometimes whether traditional Catholics take stoicism to an unprecedented and frightening level./QUOTE

:)Thank you.

Maybe we should put privacy walls between the seats, so we each have individual stalls and can look only straight ahead. Also, each wall could be equipped with a whip of some sort so we can all self-flagellate to avoid enjoying ourselves too much. We could have a small door installed to facilitate passing the Peace (curb your enthusiasm, please. NO EYE CONTACT!)

Since when did holding hands become a political issue?

We serve God by serving each other.
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Big Feet,

Excellent. Thank you.

One thing I like to think about is: Maybe Jesus won’t return for another 50,000 years. If that’s the case, the Church on earth is really still very young. It seems unlikely in that instance that the development of the mass has reached its terminus. Accordingly, organic changes (i.e. those that emerge spontaneously from within the mass) are to be expected. I think hand-holding is one such change that is entirely natural and seems legitimate (even though I personally don’t do it).
 
Sugnaflow said:
Big Feet,

Excellent. Thank you.

One thing I like to think about is: Maybe Jesus won’t return for another 50,000 years. If that’s the case, the Church on earth is really still very young. It seems unlikely in that instance that the development of the mass has reached its terminus. Accordingly, organic changes (i.e. those that emerge spontaneously from within the mass) are to be expected. I think hand-holding is one such change that is entirely natural and seems legitimate (even though I personally don’t do it).
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You are welcome, though I am not sure about which post you are thanking me…
I am sure that there are MANY other customs that grew organicly and eventually died away in the history of the church, either as naturally as they came up, or by instruction (bishops/popes saying it was impropper). Funny thing is that I, too, and my family does not hold hands during mass.
 
Here is one Bishop who has said stop holding hands during the Our Father.

wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_northern_kentucky/covington/covington-bishop:-no-holding-hands

I wish more Bishops had taken the opportunity of the new translation to teach their flock the correct form.

The holding hands part I am not thrilled with but I do join in because I think it is more important for the congregation to pray in a similar pose than try to fight something that has not been deemed inappropriate.

The people who put their other hand out in the orans position or the people who put BOTH hands out in the orans positon - that I struggle with a little more. That postire is reserved for the priest in my opinion.
 
YoungTradCath said:
I suspect that we don’t actually know what God minds in this matter.

I respect the fact that you are married to a man. That is a great thing, truly. And I don’t see a problem with you holding his hand. But when arms are elevated in such a manner as to make it a public show, that is when it seems wrong.
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Absolutely.
 
YoungTradCath said:
  1. It is a “horizontal practice.” It does not add to the emphasis on God. While it does not detract explicitly from it, it does so implicitly.
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Whenever I see this statement “horizontal practice”, I just shake my head.😦

Yes, Mass is about God, ***and ***it is also about the faithful joing together to worship Him.
Vertical is important, and so is horizontal!
Remember, without both, we do not have the cross!!
 
It is true that there is no prescribed posture for the hands during the Our Father and that, so far at least, neither the Holy See nor the U.S. bishops’ conference has officially addressed it.
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I took this quote from the EWTN website where it continued on saying specifically that hand holding, or extending the hands (the orantes posture) is NOT proscribed for the laity during the mass.

I personally prefer to not hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer (I was taught to pray with my hands folded in front of me) so that’s how I stand when I pray that prayer. If I happen to be attending mass with someone who is a hand-holder, generally they see my posture and don’t push the issue. If someone seems insistent about it, I will give in and go along, It’s not painful to me, it’s just not my preference. 🤷
 
Don’t forget that the communal nature of the Our Father is implicit (or explicit) in the first word of the prayer. It was our Lord’s choice of words, after all. 🙂
 
Sugnaflow said:
Big Feet,

Excellent. Thank you.

One thing I like to think about is: Maybe Jesus won’t return for another 50,000 years. If that’s the case, the Church on earth is really still very young. It seems unlikely in that instance that the development of the mass has reached its terminus. Accordingly, organic changes (i.e. those that emerge spontaneously from within the mass) are to be expected. I think hand-holding is one such change that is entirely natural and seems legitimate (even though I personally don’t do it).
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This is the crux of the matter (BOLD), this practice did not “spontaneously” emerge, this was a practice that Pentecostals had been doing for decades prior to the Charismatic’s picking it up. Through the Charismatics, it made its way to the N.O., years later, everyone seems to think this is indeed “part of” the Mass. Through ignorance, this practice has been promulgated by Charismatic folks, once knowledgeable parishioners seem avoid this “hand holding” that has never been a “part” of the N.O. Mass - normally anywho.
 
I do not at the time have anyone to hold hands with, but if I did, I would. I believe my God would smile upon it. I am shocked such a discussion even exists. The God I believe in is ALL loving, therefore, my hand holding of one I love would make my God smile. Shaking my head in confusion.
 
Oneofthewomen said:
Whenever I see this statement “horizontal practice”, I just shake my head.😦

Yes, Mass is about God, ***and ***it is also about the faithful joing together to worship Him.
Vertical is important, and so is horizontal!
Remember, without both, we do not have the cross!!
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🤷 Then why don’t we hold our hands through the whole mass?
elibrimom said:
I do not at the time have anyone to hold hands with, but if I did, I would. I believe my God would smile upon it. I am shocked such a discussion even exists. The God I believe in is ALL loving, therefore, my hand holding of one I love would make my God smile. Shaking my head in confusion.
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?
 
Oneofthewomen said:
Whenever I see this statement “horizontal practice”, I just shake my head.😦

Yes, Mass is about God, ***and ***it is also about the faithful joing together to worship Him.
Vertical is important, and so is horizontal!
Remember, without both, we do not have the cross!!
Click to expand...
Beautiful! 👍👍
 
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