Hand holding in the OF during the OF

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jam070406 said:
I don’t think an All loving God would have a problem with those that don’t wish to be put in an awkward situation of holding hands with strangers, and desiring that respect from those around them.
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They are not strangers. They are adopted sons and daughters of your father. They are your brothers and sisters. They are members of the same body as yours.

And if you and I and they all get to Heaven, we will love each other more than anyone we have ever loved or ever will love here on earth. We will not only hold each other’s hand, but will be united to God, and therefor united to each other through God, completely. We will be like Jesus, taking on the role of a servant or slave, prefering to do their will rather than our own, even if their will is to hold our hand. We will defer all of our desires and wants, and like Mary, will prefer to do their will rather than our own.

The hand of that person we don’t want to hold might just be the hand of the person who reaches out of Heaven and lifts us out of purgatory. So if we don’t want to have that awkward feeling in heaven, we had better get over our own awkward feelings here on earth. We had better get used to loving strangers completely and totally, without reservation, here on earth.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
They are not strangers. They are adopted sons and daughters of your father. They are your brothers and sisters. They are members of the same body as yours.

And if you and I and they all get to Heaven, we will love each other more than anyone we have ever loved or ever will love here on earth. We will not only hold each other’s hand, but you will be united to God, and therefor united to each other through God, completely. We will be like Jesus, taking on the role of a servant or slave, prefering to do their will rather than our own, even if their will is to hold our hand.

The hand of that person we don’t want to hold might just be the hand of the person who reaches out of Heaven and lifts us out of purgatory. So if we don’t want to have that awkward feeling in heaven, we had better get over our own awkward feelings here on earth. We had better get used to loving strangers completely and totally, without reservation, here on earth.

-Tim-
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So… you have equated not wanting to “hold hands” during the Our Father with withholding love from our brother and sisters in Christ?

I don’t agree, for obvious reasons. :rolleyes:
 
Equites_Christi said:
I personally never liked the idea of holding hands for a couple reasons.

One is, why during the Our Father? Do we really want to give the parishioners the impression “now we’re holding hands because now we’re praying together, the rest of the time we just daydream.” It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.

Also - just a personal opinion - I don’t like the taste it leaves in my mouth. Very kumbaya-let’s all get together - dare I say it, quasi-liberal. It seems like an interruption of the reverent mood of the mass.

But that’s just me, a cranky old man before age 20 :rolleyes:
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I like this post. Good points.🙂

Sue
 
MartyrForJesus said:
I think ‘speaking in tongues’ is just someone’s interpretation.

I’ll give a few translations of the verse:
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The Greek phrase in question is ἤρξαντο λαλεῖν ἑτέραις γλώσσαις. Literally “they began to speak in other tongues.” Tongue, of course, in this instance being interchangeable with the word language. “Speaking in tongues,” or glossolalia, is precisely what is occurring in Acts 2:4.

But as we see in Acts 2:6, each person listening heard their own language being spoken. This sort of miraculous glossolalia seems to me to be a far cry from the modern-day sort of “speaking in tongues,” where the hearers cannot understand what is being said, and it is doubtful if it constitutes genuine language at all.

In short, the modern charismatic phenomenon known as “glossolalia” is not the same as the miraculous glossolalia of the Bible.
 
I was working on a post, and decided I’ll make a new thread. It was starting to not relate to any of these issues specifically, but rather something that ties into them all in a more general sense.

As for the original post, I’m “meh” on holding hands. I don’t consider it a big deal either way, it seems so small in the grand scheme of things.

I am interested in the “organic growth” discussion, if that can be brought back on track.
 
stanczyk said:
The Greek phrase in question is ἤρξαντο λαλεῖν ἑτέραις γλώσσαις. Literally “they began to speak in other tongues.” Tongue, of course, in this instance being interchangeable with the word language. “Speaking in tongues,” or glossolalia, is precisely what is occurring in Acts 2:4.

But as we see in Acts 2:6, each person listening heard their own language being spoken. This sort of miraculous glossolalia seems to me to be a far cry from the modern-day sort of “speaking in tongues,” where the hearers cannot understand what is being said, and it is doubtful if it constitutes genuine language at all.

In short, the modern charismatic phenomenon known as “glossolalia” is not the same as the miraculous glossolalia of the Bible.
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That’s exactly what I believe, thanks for sharing that.
 
Melchior said:
I was working on a post, and decided I’ll make a new thread. It was starting to not relate to any of these issues specifically, but rather something that ties into them all in a more general sense.

As for the original post, I’m “meh” on holding hands. I don’t consider it a big deal either way, it seems so small in the grand scheme of things.

I am interested in the “organic growth” discussion, if that can be brought back on track.
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While I am not trying to derail your momentum on the subject at hand, would you agree that the “holding hands” issue was inserted by unaware Charismatics? If not, why so?
 
MarcusAndreas said:
It’s going to be funny in 1000 years when holding hands is the normative posture throughout the Church and people are going to be amazed and amused to dig up documents from antiquity where this practice was disputed and even condemned. 😃
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:hmmm: or maybe they will look back when the practice has stopped and wonder what was going on back then and wonder why did they feel the need to hold hands during the Our Father to show they were praying together as a community when the whole Mass is a community prayer.

Sue
 
Irish_Polock said:
So… you have equated not wanting to “hold hands” during the Our Father with withholding love from our brother and sisters in Christ?

I don’t agree, for obvious reasons. :rolleyes:
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I’m not sure you havn’t read that into my comments, or…

Jesus said to him in reply, “You have said so." (Matthew 26:64)

Sorry… couldn’t resist. 😃

What I am saying is, that if we we want to function properly in heaven, or not spend a long time in purgatory, we had better get over the pride of not wanting to do another’s will, instead wanting to do our own will.

The person next to us is not trying to dominate us, but as followers of Christ who made himself like a slave, we are to imitate him and enter into the state of being a servant. In Jesus’ radical new commandment of love where an enemy who want’s to kill us recievs an offer of friendship and we wash the feet of those who serve us, we enter into that way as a state of being. If we want to function in heaven, the state of being as a servant has to be our natural disposition. In this state of being, when someone reaches out his hand to hold ours, we respond with the mind of a servant.

Yes, it is awkward. When we stand there with our hands in the prayer position and the person next to us extends his hand toward us, there will be that awkard moment. But Jesus has just given us a chance, in His presence, to do the will of another and not our own will. Jesus, present on the altar, has just presented us with an opportunity to be just like him on the Cross, doing not our own will, but the will of another.

Not my will but yours be done. (Luke 22:42)

That awkwardness is Jesus asking you a question. Do you do your own will and refuse that person’s hand,? Or do you put aside your will and do another’s will. And it is such a small, insignificant thing, holding someone’s hand for a minute while we all pray. It’s not like we are being crucified or something.

-Tim-
 
TimothyH said:
I’m not sure you havn’t read that into my comments, or…

Jesus said to him in reply, “You have said so." (Matthew 26:64)

Sorry… couldn’t resist. 😃

What I am saying is, that if we we want to function properly in heaven, or not spend a long time in purgatory, we had better get over the pride of not wanting to do another’s will, instead wanting to do our own will.

The person next to us is not trying to dominate us, but as followers of Christ who made himself like a slave, we are to imitate him and enter into the state of being a servant. In Jesus’ radical new commandment of love where an enemy who want’s to kill us recievs an offer of friendship and we wash the feet of those who serve us, we enter into that way as a state of being. If we want to function in heaven, the state of being as a servant has to be our natural disposition. In this state of being, when someone reaches out his hand to hold ours, we respond with the mind of a servant.

Yes, it is awkward. When we stand there with our hands in the prayer position and the person next to us extends his hand toward us, there will be that awkard moment. But Jesus has just given us a chance, in His presence, to do the will of another and not our own will. Jesus, present on the altar, has just presented us with an opportunity to be just like him on the Cross, doing not our own will, but the will of another.

Not my will but yours be done. (Luke 22:42)

And it is such a small, insignificant thing, holding someone’s hand for a minute while we pray. It’s not like we are being crucified or something.

-Tim-
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I would never presume that someone next to me that doesn’t want to hold my hand when I reach for it, but would rather enter into a personal moment alone with God, is not acting Christlike or somehow rejecting His will. What a horrible thought!
 
TimothyH said:
What I am saying is, that if we we want to function properly in heaven, or not spend a long time in purgatory, we had better get over the pride of not wanting to do another’s will, instead wanting to do our own will.

The person next to us is not trying to dominate us, but as followers of Christ who made himself like a slave, we are to imitate him and enter into the state of being a servant. In Jesus’ radical new commandment of love where an enemy who want’s to kill us recievs an offer of friendship and we wash the feet of those who serve us, we enter into that way as a state of being. If we want to function in heaven, the state of being as a servant has to be our natural disposition. In this state of being, when someone reaches out his hand to hold ours, we respond with the mind of a servant.

Yes, it is awkward. When we stand there with our hands in the prayer position and the person next to us extends his hand toward us, there will be that awkard moment. But Jesus has just given us a chance, in His presence, to do the will of another and not our own will. Jesus, present on the altar, has just presented us with an opportunity to be just like him on the Cross, doing not our own will, but the will of another.

Not my will but yours be done. (Luke 22:42)

And it is such a small, insignificant thing, holding someone’s hand for a minute while we pray. It’s not like we are being crucified or something.

-Tim-
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If someone reaches their hand out to you the proper thing would be to accept but people who want to hold hands and raise them high should also keep in mind that not everyone wants to pray that way and thus be considerate and not desire having their will either but do the will of the other.
Just because someone doesn’t want to do the handholding thing during the Our Father doesn’t mean they don’t reach out to people in other ways at other times. There are many ways to serve others and many other opportunities to fellowship with others.
:yup:

Sue
 
LilHomemaker said:
Just because someone doesn’t want to do the handholding thing during the Our Father doesn’t mean they don’t reach out to people in other ways at other times. There are many ways to serve others and many other opportunities to fellowship with others.
:yup:

Sue
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Yes, there are other ways. There are always other times. Always other.

And do this because you know the time; it is the hour now for you to awake from sleep. For our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed; (Romans 13:11)

It has been a long day for me. Goodnight everyone. 🙂

-Tim-
 
Melchior said:
We’.

Prominent folks who have displayed signs of being charismatic; Francis, Dominic, Catherine, Therese, Maximilian, and Karol. What do most of these folks have in common? Catholic Mysticism. I would argue that all the charismatic renewal is doing is tapping into the mystical theology the Church has to offer.
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I don’t agree mysticism and the charismatic movement are one and the same.

But as an aside, today during a holy hour of adoration, I felt myself begin to lift out of my body. I don’t know how to explain it. It frightened me and I just grabbed the pew in front of me until the feeling passed.

And no I’m not crazy, folks.😃
 
TrueLight said:
I don’t agree mysticism and the charismatic movement are one and the same.

But as an aside, today during a holy hour of adoration, I felt myself begin to lift out of my body. I don’t know how to explain it. It frightened me and I just grabbed the pew in front of me until the feeling passed.

And no I’m not crazy, folks.😃
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Well, today was my first ever Missa Cantada! With Gregorian Chant! When the time came to go up for Holy Communion, I almost felt like crying! I almost never feel emotions in Mass!
 
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