Happy Feast of Christ the King!

[thecoach]

You are right, there is something more to this whole argument than the date of Christ the King; it goes much deeper than that.

These people resent anything that is traditional and they hate the fact that the Holy Father has allowed the use of the Tridentine Mass. They call us “old fashioned” and say that we are in a “time warp” but this is simply not the case. The traditionalists who post on this board are mostly faithful Catholics in full communion with Rome who simply have a love for earlier liturgical practices. Nothing more. Nothing less.

The issue of the calendars is so trivial. The Catholic Church has many different calendars so the addition of one more isn’t going to hurt. What difference does it make to those who attend the OF? It doesn’t even affect them.

To be honest, I think that some people on this thread need to take a step back and ask themselves why they are so against the Extraordinary Calendar. If they spent as much time helping the poor as they do arguing on the Internet, the world would be a far better place.

The Latin rite now has two calendars. Put things into perspective; there are homeless people living in your city and you are arguing and fighting over something so trivial as a calendar. Do you think Jesus cares that we celebrate on different days? I don’t think so.

Nor would Jesus care if the Mass is in Latin or not. Take your own advice, it is the heart of the Law that counts.

 

[Dempsey1919]

Take your own advice then when it comes to NO Mass and Vat 2. You cant pick and choose when to submit.

The Pope has restored the Tridentine Mass and has stated that it was never abrogated. It is perfectly licit for us to attend the Tridentine Mass.

I submit to the teachings of Vatican II and I also love the Pauline Mass. However, I prefer to attend the Tridentine Mass and I have the permission of the Pope to do so.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

How do you assume to know what people do for the poor? Pure arrogance in your statement.

thecoach:
Do you disagree that the Pope has authorized the use of the 1962 Missal? Do you disagree that parishes which use the 1962 missal can observe Christ the King on a different date? Or do you just disagree with the pope for allowing this?

 

[havemercy]

Next time I start a thread, I’ll be sure to pray beforehand so this kind of argument doesn’t happen.

 

[thecoach]

thecoach:
Do you disagree that the Pope has authorized the use of the 1962 Missal? Do you disagree that parishes which use the 1962 missal can observe Christ the King on a different date? Or do you just disagree that the pope has allowed this?

Asked and answered. I know of no logical reason that the hierarchy would create a new calendar just to have two. As in many things, it has been misunderstood. What I see most of all in this forum is duplicity. The pope has allowed things which is fine if Traditionalists agree with it, but things such as Vat 2 and the NO is not ok. The pope has allowed female altar servers as well, but I bet half of you choke on the very idea. The pope allowed communion in the hand, but again, half of you would choke on the idea. Just be consisten at least. I thought I was coming around to return fully to the Catholic church, but with what I have seen here, there is more loyalty to the church and some petty items than Christ Himself. Thank you all for helping me make my decision to fully leave.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Asked and answered. I know of no logical reason that the hierarchy would create a new calendar just to have two. As in many things, it has been misunderstood. What I see most of all in this forum is duplicity. The pope has allowed things which is fine if Traditionalists agree with it, but things such as Vat 2 and the NO is not ok. The pope has allowed female altar servers as well, but I bet half of you choke on the very idea. The pope allowed communion in the hand, but again, half of you would choke on the idea. Just be consisten at least. I thought I was coming around to return fully to the Catholic church, but with what I have seen here, there is more loyalty to the church and some petty items than Christ Himself. Thank you all for helping me make my decision to fully leave.

Hi thecoach,
I’m not even a traditionalist catholic. I’ve just been to a latin mass a few times out of curiosity. I think what you might not understand is that there are whole parishes who use the 1962 missal (as they’ve been authorized to). If you use that missal, you have to observe the feasts on the dates they are in the missal, it just wouldn’t work the other way. The pope has talked about updating the 1962 missal to include todays’ feasts, but until that’s done, they have no choice.

 

[Dempsey1919]

I thought I was coming around to return fully to the Catholic church, but with what I have seen here, there is more loyalty to the church and some petty items than Christ Himself. Thank you all for helping me make my decision to fully leave.

The use of a different Calendar does not imply that we are more loyal to “some petty items” than Christ.

And just for the record, to be loyal to the Church is to be loyal to Christ. Jesus established the Catholic Church as his instrument to bring salvation to all.

Leaving the Church because there is diversity in the way we worship is foolish. You should focus less on what traditionalists are doing and more on your spiritual life.

Read this thread again and you will see that no traditionalists have questioned the legitimacy of Vatican II or the new Calendar. In fact, I have even said that we should follow the new Calendar in order to promote greater unity within the one rite.

Leave the Church if you wish but I would ask you to seriously consider your reasons for doing so.

Attend the Mass of your choice and do your best to be a good person. That’s what I do. I attend the TLM every week and I don’t even think about the Mass of Paul VI; I don’t attend and so I am not concerned about how they worship or what calendar they follow. I recognise the legitimacy of the Novus Ordo but I attend the Tridentine Mass purely because it enriches my spiritual life.

At the end of the day, the type of Mass or the Calendar used does not matter when you consider the grand scheme of things.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I think this is one reason that the two forms existing in peace is not going to work out in the long run. It’s bad enough that it is a point of contention between us and the east, now for it to exist within our own Church? I don’t see how this is going to work. Of course, it doesn’t affect the great feasts, but still.

 

[Dempsey1919]

I think this is one reason that the two forms existing in peace is not going to work out in the long run.

It should be fine if people on both sides treat each other with respect and recognise the legitimacy of both forms. I pray for the day when the bickering over the Mass will end and we can all celebrate the diversity in the Church.

 

[paramedicgirl]

no, it sounds like SSPX to me, that yuo can go about as you wish as long as you dont agree with it, but when someone else disagrees with Traditionalism, you scream, “Obedience!”. You cant have it both ways. This is a post Vatican 2 church, deal with it.

It’s post Vatican II Catholics with your attitude that make Traditionalism even more attractive.

 

[lak611]

Take your own advice then when it comes to NO Mass and Vat 2. You cant pick and choose when to submit.

I guess you didn’t see my post where I said I attend a NO parish. I only attend a TLM occasionally. I am submitting by accepting that both Masses are valid. I support the Pope’s decision to allow both and do not consider one or the other to be better.

 

[paramedicgirl]

What I have seen here on this forum is people who have a hard time delaing with the church as it is. It is NOT 1962, there is a NO Mass, there is a NEW calendar, and thats it. People argue that the Pope has the right to ok two calendars, but then the papal office seems to have slipped when it comes to Vat2. It cant be both ways people. And I DOUBT that Rome has the intention of having two calendars, what is the point in that? Use logic, use reason, getyour heads out of the LAtin for just a minute and use some common sense.

Coach, maybe you need a good strong cup of coffee or something. Weren’t you paying attention on July 7 this year or on Sept 14? It’s called Summorum Pontificum, and it carries more weight than your objections. Unless, of course, someone made you pope when no one was looking.

 

[AJV]

Did any places celebrating Christ the King on Sunday sing the hymn “Te saeculorum Principem”?

DustinsDad:

It’s an especially “big deal” here since the priests in charge of the Oratory are with the Institute for Christ the King Sovereign Priest - Archbishop Burke has granted a plenary indulgance (with normal conditions) for all attending the oratory today.

Is Christ the King the main feast of the ICRSS or do they have a more specific feast (perhaps explicitly naming the Priesthood) as their titular feast?

 

[thecoach]

It’s post Vatican II Catholics with your attitude that make Traditionalism even more attractive.

 

[thecoach]

Coach, maybe you need a good strong cup of coffee or something. Weren’t you paying attention on July 7 this year or on Sept 14? It’s called Summorum Pontificum, and it carries more weight than your objections. Unless, of course, someone made you pope when no one was looking.

your point? What was amusing was the Traditionalists waiting with eagerness for Motu Propio, only to have it revealed as a very weak attempt at placating a small minority. Its ultimate effect on the church is already proving to be minimal.

 

[zagjames]

I think this is one reason that the two forms existing in peace is not going to work out in the long run. It’s bad enough that it is a point of contention between us and the east, now for it to exist within our own Church? I don’t see how this is going to work. Of course, it doesn’t affect the great feasts, but still.

Just a side note, did you know that the novos ordos mass can be celbrated in Latin, at the High Alter in Ad Orientatum, with a communion rail and everything? I have never heard of one, but it is permissable. I would be interested in whether or not people like thecoach would be okay with that even though it is approved by the pope as well.

Eventually I see both masses merging together, overtime I think we will again have a mass more like the tridintine but with some aspects of the NO. It might be a hundered years or more, but we are getting there.

Heres and atricle by my parish priest that some of you might find interesting. Its on liturigical respect and the real presense.

adoremus.org/1105TruePresence.html

Happy belated Freast of Christ the King to all you TLMers! Praise to the eternal King!

 

[James0235]

Next time I start a thread, I’ll be sure to pray beforehand so this kind of argument doesn’t happen.

It’s always a good idea to pray first. But, you didn’t have anything to do with the derailing of this thread.

“thecoach” and “estesbob” caused it with their trolling and attempting to bait other posters into an argument by constantly belittling the TLM and those who love it and implying that we were being schismatic and divisive. The mods should have put a stop to it some time ago.

You did a very good thing. You had no way to know that a couple of childish individuals would ruin what started out as a very beautiful thread.

James

 

[thecoach]

It’s always a good idea to pray first. But, you didn’t have anything to do with the derailing of this thread.

“thecoach” and “estesbob” caused it with their trolling and attempting to bait other posters into an argument by constantly belittling the TLM and those who love it and implying that we were being schismatic and divisive. The mods should have put a stop to it some time ago.

You did a very good thing. You had no way to know that a couple of childish individuals would ruin what started out as a very beautiful thread.

James

trolling and attempting to bait? try reading the tone of your fellow traditionalists. childish is having people do your thinking for you, childish in being unable to use logic to see when a dichotomy exists. I have neither problem, you seem to have those issues.

 

[zagjames]

trolling and attempting to bait? try reading the tone of your fellow traditionalists. childish is having people do your thinking for you, childish in being unable to use logic to see when a dichotomy exists. I have neither problem, you seem to have those issues.

So there is a diachotomy of sorts. It is working and obviously the Holy Father has some purpose for it. Oh yeah… maybe it was that he wanted the two forms of the mass and all that goes along with it to enrich each other.

I agree it is childish to trust other people and take that opion as true. But only by believing childishly can we ever be saved. Trust the church on issues of faith and morals like a Child, just as we trust God and scripture as children. Scripture, Tradition and CHurch authority all flow from God so we should embrace it all as a child and trust what God, and subsequently Scripture, Tradition and the Church have to say.

BE Childish in your faith, trust, and love as a child does. Jesus certainly tought this.

thecoach, yeah alot of people have been uncharitable in how they talk in this discussion you dont add anything to it by being just as cut throat and angry.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

I thought I was coming around to return fully to the Catholic church, but with what I have seen here, there is more loyalty to the church and some petty items than Christ Himself. Thank you all for helping me make my decision to fully leave.

You’re going to disobey the Lord and leave his church because you don’t like the people in the traditionalist forum on a website?